Emperor Cole at the end of the Power Loyalist Arc...
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-09-20 14:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fake Star Wars doesn't count
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You just did not go there
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Search your feelings - you know it to be true |
Originally Posted by Santorican
You just did not go there |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That argument doesn't count when the people are being drugged to be happy and docile.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
The people of Praetoria are not innocent. You can't hide your eyes from tyranny and claim innocence.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Guys, I would ease up on the political commentary. We do not want this thread locked.
edit: And GG, as I can not see what you are saying, I will say you are not helping based on the responses I have seen. This does not need to be a locked thread due to you or anyone else.
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Only a tyrant would close it |
Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Guys, I would ease up on the political commentary. We do not want this thread locked.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm putting this in my sig, because that was excellent.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
This describes a tyrant, though it does not describe Emperor Cole. Allow me to present an analogy:
Even in your primitive, barbaric Primal Earth, do you not elect your leaders to govern those who elected them? To select from their ranks a champion to place into a position of greatness? This behavior is, by your own admission, fostering tyranny, though I presume you will decide in disagreement. Though as I observe your world from my objective vantage point, I see your presidents and prime ministers acting on behalf of only a fraction of the people they pretend to serve. Theirs is an agendum of political merit; to use their influence as provided by their election to impose petty laws on the population in total, all too often to be met with bitter opposition and to nonetheless proceed in their endeavors. Is this not tyrannical, quarrelsome and otherwise disruptive to the well-being of the people as a whole? It seems to me that your own world cannot even come to agreement on such simple issues, yet you feel the entitlement to point to ours and claim our Emperor to be a tyrant. This prejudice is inherent in your kind, and you have actively struck out against us in a form of misplaced vengeance for the perceived wrongs of the people of our world. You are beasts, the lot of you, and fitting of the Primal name. Emperor Cole's victory over your world will be most majestic indeed. For Praetoria! |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
"But I want it NOW, Mommy!"
Rather than waiting until help arrives, you'd rather rush off half-cocked and get everyone killed in a temper tantrum.
Atrocities and injustices happen, yes, but that doesn't make them or those who commit them right. If you bring down Cole and kill everyone in the process, then you're actually worse than Cole is.
At the very least Cole was keeping people alive, despite the subtle brainwashing going on, it was something that could be fixable, death isn't fixable.
Edit: Furthermore, giving people the options of 'Rebel or I'll kill you' is pretty much tyrannical in it's own right.
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The drugs haven't stopped the wardens or the crusaders or the syndicate or the destroyers or even the non-combatant protesters.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That argument doesn't count when the people are being drugged to be happy and docile.
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Enriche may push the sheeple into being a bit more docile, but they are already half-way there on their own.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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You all cling to a life of slavery so strongly. You see death as the ultimate harm. I do not. We will all die. We're mortal (Cole isn't, but then that's part of the problem). |
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
At the very least Cole was keeping people alive, despite the subtle brainwashing going on, it was something that could be fixable, death isn't fixable.
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The life you lead before inevitable death is more important than just being alive. We aren't cockroaches. Life is more than staying alive. I can only hope you all are RPing here and you don't really believe what you're saying. You dishonor the founders of this great nation and their fight for liberty.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well, if they didn't want political commentary they shouldn't have made a game with overtones of political commentary |
Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Guys, I would ease up on the political commentary. We do not want this thread locked.
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I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Search your feelings - you know it to be true
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Oh, I get the fight for liberty and justice and all that. But there is a time and a place for it, with humanity teetering on the edge of extinction now isn't the time
What happens to life when there's no one left to live it?
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Yeah seriously!! I'm trying so hard not to discuss current events in this discussion! |
Originally Posted by Zikar
Well, if they didn't want political commentary they shouldn't have made a game with overtones of political commentary
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Told you did I, reckless is she...and now, matters are worse.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
The thing with real life discussion on this is... it doesn't really compare. Sure, there are similar issues as to what's going on in Praetoria, but real life doesn't have 90% of it's population gone.
Why can't you seem to understand this?
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Strictly speaking, Cole is God. The only one Praetoria ... ... has...|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
the second he decided that he gets to be god.
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Holy crap. I just realised why there's so little magic in Praetoria! (Seriously, I just realised that as I was writing this.)
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Even if that statistic is correct, what possibly makes you think it's relevant? Tyranny isn't suddenly justified because there are less people. That makes no sense whatsoever.
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
The thing with real life discussion on this is... it doesn't really compare. Sure, there are similar issues as to what's going on in Praetoria, but real life doesn't have 90% of it's population gone.
Why can't you seem to understand this? |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It does make one wonder what the Circle of Thorns are up too. They were dead before the Hamidon wars and should still be down in Orenbega doing whatever ghosts do. And what about the Carnival of Light? (Or did the retconn them?)
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Strictly speaking, Cole is God. The only one Praetoria ... ... has...
Holy crap. I just realised why there's so little magic in Praetoria! (Seriously, I just realised that as I was writing this.) |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Well, it's more contempt than hate |
Originally Posted by Santorican
I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying it's preferrable to the extinction of the human race. Let the population rebuild before you plunge it right back into war.
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Well, the Hamidon might be an Incarnate too - although it and Tyrant seem to be pretty close |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Strictly speaking, Cole is God. The only one Praetoria ... ... has...
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Vanessa Devore is still around, with the mask but there aren't any other reps from the Carnival of Light. Maybe they got decimated and Devore's the only one left, or She doesn't make new carnies because of how the mask works. /e shrug
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It does make one wonder what the Circle of Thorns are up too. They were dead before the Hamidon wars and should still be down in Orenbega doing whatever ghosts do. And what about the Carnival of Light? (Or did the retconn them?)
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Infinity
Sam Varden 50 MA/Reg Scrap
Doomtastic 50 SS/Inv Brute
Ceus 50 Eng/Kin Corr
Cinderstorm 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
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I'm pretty certain the Circle isn't around, because Praetorian Oranbega got destroyed the same time as Shroud City, Praetorian Paragon.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It does make one wonder what the Circle of Thorns are up too. They were dead before the Hamidon wars and should still be down in Orenbega doing whatever ghosts do. And what about the Carnival of Light? (Or did the retconn them?)
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A lot of this is why, while I may occasionally talk villain-talk on the forum about Longbow being stormtroopers, etc, at the end of the day, the only question in Praetoria is (to phrase it in X-Files speak) "Resist or serve?" I have no great love for the Crusaders and to be honest, I think the Wardens have their share of the culpability, too, because they consent to those acts they don't commit. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
You all cling to a life of slavery so strongly. You see death as the ultimate harm. I do not. We will all die. We're mortal (Cole isn't, but then that's part of the problem).
The life you lead before inevitable death is more important than just being alive. We aren't cockroaches. Life is more than staying alive. I can only hope you all are RPing here and you don't really believe what you're saying. You dishonor the founders of this great nation and their fight for liberty. |
There are worse things than death. Look at the Seers -- that's not HUMAN, that's not even ALIVE. That's machinery. The end result of Tyrant's ideology, with every person a very literal part of his machine. Tyrant will never be satisfied as long as there exists one free person to resist him. That's the nature of tyranny. Fear garbed in power, relying on more fear to generate power.
Tyrant will continue eliminating the people on the edges of his utopia and when the people who are now comfortable middle-of-the-road become the new "edge," he'll go after them, too. He'll continue this until he and Praetor Last One Standing are the only two beings on the planet (and possibly multiverse) and then he'll start thinking, "Hey, they're up to SOMETHING!"
The thing Tyrant counts on is that people are more scared of the unknown than they are of him. So long as he can garb himself in the cloak of being the lesser evil (to Hamidon, to Primal Earth, to anarchy), people will opt for him out of comfort. Tyrant's real superpower isn't flight or strength or nuketanking, it's his ability to convince otherwise good people to serve him out of fear or (worse) a misguided sense of righteousness (Kang, who rides the road marked "sacrifice for the good of the regime" all the way to its logical conclusion)
Evil only has the power you give it. Sorry, Cole, you're just going to have to kill me, because while I might not blow up a hospital to stop you, I'll never bend the knee.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Lord Vetinari, Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett.
Now, if all of the citizens have the new and improved MOG, they should be fine.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.