no.
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no.
Blessing of the Zephyr requires only 2 pieces for the defense bonus. Kinetic Combat requires 4. In other words, you need to work in three additional slots into the power as opposed to 1 slot in order to get the benefit.
That is a fair tradeoff, so no need to nerf the set.
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Not going to happen. What I do fully expect to see though, is some type of overall nerf to defense usefulness in general.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
With the "fix" that took place with BotZ, will the same happen to Kin Coms? I mean, 3 vs 4 and the same %'s, what do ya think?
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How about a total revamp instead? Currently, Defense sets are just plain unfun to play if you're not softcapped (or even if you're softcapped but karma hates you). A nerf would make them unfun period.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Not going to happen. What I do fully expect to see though, is some type of overall nerf to defense usefulness in general.
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Blessing of the Zephyr was pretty much a must-have for almost every squishy I ever made - since it provided KB protection and good defence to two positions in 3 slots. Thats 3 big bonuses for 3 slots.
Kinetic Combat is one big bonus for 4 slots. I hardly ever use it.
And I think the situation with defence is fine as it is.
Anyone can build up big numbers if they spend through the nose for it. These builds are usually expensive, and only come together in high levels, and thus provide a kind of end-game goal for a lot of characters.
IO Defence builds on a Blaster or anyone else with no native defence usually cover a low range of attacks heavily or a few types to a lesser degree.
Defence sets are at a big advantage due to the Defence debuff resistance they pack. Def debufs are common enough to make this matter. And defence sets are typically well protected (eg 1 luck pill = god mode) by the mid 20s.
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But it's not the same %'s. At all.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
With the "fix" that took place with BotZ, will the same happen to Kin Coms? I mean, 3 vs 4 and the same %'s, what do ya think?
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Bonuses to two positions in 3 slots is not even close to the same % as a bonus to one in 4 Slots. It's twice the % in one less slot. Add in the highly desirable KB protection as one of the slots and it's even less of a comparison. Your math, not good.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Yeah, because no one ever played /SR before i9.
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Originally Posted by Col_Blitzkrieger
How about a total revamp instead? Currently, Defense sets are just plain unfun to play if you're not softcapped (or even if you're softcapped but karma hates you). A nerf would make them unfun period.
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I'd also have to disagree with the 'plain unfun to play' assessment there. Unfun, like fun, is highly subjective and should not be the basis of major changes to the game. Since my Defense-based sets progress just fine and have no real problems staying alive (and in fact do better than some resistance-based sets against certain foes), I'd say it's a PEBKAC issue.
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You mean like all the accuracy bonuses that alot of npcs seem to have nowdays? I don't see defense being nearly as powerful as it was a year ago. What I'd like to see is chance to be hit streaks and chance to be missed streaks. So that defense would actually work. You couldn't dodge forever but you wouldn't be hit every few seconds either. Gives the enemy a chance to hurt you and also gives you a chance to regenerate some while fighting. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Not going to happen. What I do fully expect to see though, is some type of overall nerf to defense usefulness in general.
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No real point to play a defense based character where defense is your only mititgation if you get hit as much as the guy that has defense and a self heal.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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Not to mention all those poor SR players that committed suicide between I4 and I6.
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Originally Posted by Talonflash
Yeah, because no one ever played /SR before i9.
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Good thing there's a power pool for that.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
No real point to play a defense based character where defense is your only mititgation if you get hit as much as the guy that has defense and a self heal.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Hehe... That line describes how it was levelling a /Super Reflexes scrapper as well as an Ice Armor/ tanker during I5/I6.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not to mention all those poor SR players that committed suicide between I4 and I6.
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For the OP, I don't see any sets with so blatantly out-of-line set bonuses as the Blessing of the Zephyr was. Kinetic combat tradeoff is not only that the 2/3 slot set bonuses aren't great, but even fourslotting that set in an attack means you'll need to top if off with something else to make the power useful in offense - meaning at least five or even six slots total.
Also, BotZ gave 3.75% def to two thirds of attacks (ranged and aoe, but not melee) for 3 slots, where Kinetic Combat gives 3.75% to two sevenths of attacks (smashing and lethal, but not energy, negative, fire, cold or psychic) for 4 slots. Not even a close to the same thing.
@Roderick
KK, my bad. I didnt know it gave % for 2 attacks. I never used, i just know it was wanted by alot of people as is Kin Coms.
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Also, the enhancement of the power itself suffers a little by using Kinetic Combat. You can slot with almost any other set and end up enhancing the power better. So, Kinetic Combat forces you to trade effectiveness of the power for more defense. |
Originally Posted by Roderick
Also, BotZ gave 3.75% def to two thirds of attacks (ranged and aoe, but not melee) for 3 slots, where Kinetic Combat gives 3.75% to two sevenths of attacks (smashing and lethal, but not energy, negative, fire, cold or psychic) for 4 slots. Not even a close to the same thing.
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Since BotZ went in travel powers, which people seldom slotted heavily anyway, you got 3.13% enhancement of two defense positions, AND KB protection, with literally no downside to using it.
So the difference is Kinetic Combat gives you 3.75% defense to 2 damage types for 4 slots, and somewhat gimps the power it is in, while BotZ gave you an equivalent amount to ranged and AoE, KB protection, and it ended up enhancing the power it's in better than it otherwise would be.
Edit: Evilmeister said almost the exact same thing, so I guess I was just reinforcing it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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this is the main draw back to kinetics. whenever I am building for smash / lethal defense and plan to slot kinetics in an attack I actually plan to use, it needs at least 5 slots or I don't bother. a 4-slotted kinetic has one of the worst set of bonuses, compared to pretty much any other IO set you could put in the power.
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Originally Posted by Evilmeister
Kinetic combat tradeoff is not only that the 2/3 slot set bonuses aren't great, but even fourslotting that set in an attack means you'll need to top if off with something else to make the power useful in offense - meaning at least five or even six slots total. |
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If by that, you mean with regard to defense bonuses granted via IOs... then I hope you are right. Perhaps i19 will provide an overall nerf to the IO system. I can dream, can't I?
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Not going to happen. What I do fully expect to see though, is some type of overall nerf to defense usefulness in general.
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Ya, I know right! I hope they do anyway with villain ATs and tho annoying waste of space rouge isles. >_>
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
If by that, you mean with regard to defense bonuses granted via IOs... then I hope you are right. Perhaps i19 will provide an overall nerf to the IO system. I can dream, can't I?
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Probly. The devs find it perfectly fine to require Rare salvage for really crappy recipes. So it should be no suprise when every recipe requires rare salvage and the big 4 to require all rare salvage to complete.
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*heh* Good try, but not quite there.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak
Probly. The devs find it perfectly fine to require Rare salvage for really crappy recipes. So it should be no suprise when every recipe requires rare salvage and the big 4 to require all rare salvage to complete.
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And yet after all this time i'm still rooting for you to one day make a worthwhile post. You can do it!
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With the "fix" that took place with BotZ, will the same happen to Kin Coms? I mean, 3 vs 4 and the same %'s, what do ya think?