I don't actually mind the change for earth 616. A normal guy running around killing people, with all the superpowers saying they're irked and that he should be brought in but never doing so, never made sense to me. It would take someone like Vision all of an hour to find him, beat him, and arrest him. He's not Batman.
Leave the Punisher character in the Max series. It's a better fit for him.
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I won't argue that, but what I read on the Punisher wiki page was crazy.
Either man him up with some high tech gizmos or keep him away from the heroes and villains of the 616 U. Turning him into Frankenstein's Monster, (Or Mobius's Monster as the case may be) is insane.
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Yea but if you stop suspending your disbelief like that it should be pretty easy to figure out who most heroes are and then just blow them up in their homes. I mean spiderman has the most obvious form of travel ever, whenever he swung into a dark ally to change clothing there should be about a million people near by watching him 'cause their is no way to stealthly swing around in a bright red suit. However that isn't very fun, so we collectively ignore this fact. I'd rather see them drop Hawkeye, a guy with a freaking bow and arrow, before they drop the Punisher. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
I don't actually mind the change for earth 616. A normal guy running around killing people, with all the superpowers saying they're irked and that he should be brought in but never doing so, never made sense to me. It would take someone like Vision all of an hour to find him, beat him, and arrest him. He's not Batman.
Leave the Punisher character in the Max series. It's a better fit for him. |
I agree though that the Max series is vastly, vastly superior though to the 616 Punisher.
The Punisher is back to his normal human self for the Shadowlands series.
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If it makes you feel better, Frankencastle is going to end with issue #21. The series ends and I think some mini series are slated, however you can rest well assured that these mini series will have Frank Castle, not Frankencastle. |
Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Is this an effin joke? What in the name of Cthulhu is Joephisto smoking? He lets this by, but writes OMIT and allows BND to continue?
UGH!!! |
As proof, get a copy of Shadowland 3, as page 17 and 18 were a delight to see! Page 17, Dark Daredevil orders the Hand to bring him the heroes heads, when suddenly the wall explodes, scattering them all! First panel of page 18, standing in the hole he made, fully armed and loaded for combat stands FRANK CASTLE, THE PUNISHER. And with his usual poetic grace he had two words to say to the evil ninjas: "KUNG-FU THIS!" and the bullets began to spray!
Heh makes me think of This! Periodically comics always toss in some weird temporary change to characters. I swear they do it just so we're happy that the characters remain stagnet and unchanging when they make dumb changes. Oh captain America is boring you say...lets turn him into a werwolf...is that better? nope, well then here's your reg cap back. Take it and shut up.
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Hows batman any less ridiculous than the punisher operating in a world of super powered people? Especially given people like Superman could bring him in any time he felt like it. He uses non-lethal force so there's always witnesses. Figuring out who he is wouldn't take much longer or perhaps would be easier because of that. Oh that's right, he's the gosh darn batman, he gets a free pass on everyone's disbelief while a guy with guns or a bow somehow so much more unrealistic. No they make as much sense as squirrel girl. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
I don't actually mind the change for earth 616. A normal guy running around killing people, with all the superpowers saying they're irked and that he should be brought in but never doing so, never made sense to me. It would take someone like Vision all of an hour to find him, beat him, and arrest him. He's not Batman.
Leave the Punisher character in the Max series. It's a better fit for him. |
Like the punisher, batman does best when he's in his own book far away from any high powered supers. Bad @ss normals are really jarring in books with people who are on part with superman or silver surfer. They need stay in the shallow end of the pool.
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Franken... Castle? Um, what does that mean? Please don't say it's exactly what it sounds like, because that sounds really dumb. It's not the Punisher as a Frankenstein's Monster, is it?
Comic books these days are weird...
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What the heck did they do to my favorite character!?
I'm a huge fan of the Max Punisher...
But I'm actually quite enjoying the sheer idiocy of FrankenCastle It's been obvious since the start of it that this is only temporary, and so I've just been able to enjoy it in the same way I enjoy bad B-movies. After all, it's not that much stupider than Frank being a hitman for Angels...
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
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Ok, in a nutshell during the Dark Reign when Norman Osborn was calling the shots and hunting down renegade heroes, he sent Daken the evil son of Wolverine to get Frank Castle. |
Originally Posted by McNum
Franken... Castle? Um, what does that mean? Please don't say it's exactly what it sounds like, because that sounds really dumb. It's not the Punisher as a Frankenstein's Monster, is it?
Comic books these days are weird... |
Frank a normal human with big guns vs. a mutant with a super healing power and razor sharp claws and no sense of restraint or honor unlike his father Wolverine.
Daken carved Frank to pieces, literally. His pieces were then taken by the race of monsters called the Subterraineans that usually work for the Mole Man. It seems someone is hunting and killing monsters around the world and the monsters decide they need a "monster" like Frank to aid them. So the Living Vampire Morbius literally stitches Frank's body back together along with cyborg parts. Frank's skin is now grey, distorted and bloated and unfortunately he awoke before Morbius could finish the treatment thus his brain was "unstable" and he was literally acting like a berzerk monster until he was subdued and given pills that were "Synaptic glue" according to Morbius. Morbiius finishes repairing and rebuilding Frank and he arises as FRANKENCASTLE (and yes he was very much a Frankenstein monster). After nearly being killed saving all the monsters, Morbius inserts the legendary bloodstone into Frank knowing that it can fully regenerate Frank's body over time.
With the stone in him and still stuck as FRANKENCASTLE, Frank decides its time to deliver some punishment to some old foes and after dispatching one of them the next on his list was Daken. This led to a four part story that could have been told in two parts but they wanted it to cross over from the Frankencastle book into the Wolverine book and back again. Of course it ends with Daken and Frankencastle badly beaten and Wolverine intervening to save his son and return the bloodstone to Frankencastle.
Issue 21 is supposed to have Frankencastle on Monster Island as he heals and is mystically restored by the bloodstone, but according to solicts his body appears to be restored but the whole experience as well as the power of the bloodstone have made Frank even more crazy then he normally is. Apparently Else Bloodstone and the monsters are going to take Frank on. I suspect it will end with the stone ripped out of him and his mind coming back to its normal level of insanity and the Punisher will arise again.
Again, Shadowland 3 does show a hale and healthy FRANK CASTLE so we know he won't be Frankencastle much longer.
And here is a pic of Frankencastle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frankencastle.PNG
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Well Frankencastle was worse then Frank being an Angel of Death for heaven. |
Originally Posted by Kiken
I'm a huge fan of the Max Punisher...
But I'm actually quite enjoying the sheer idiocy of FrankenCastle It's been obvious since the start of it that this is only temporary, and so I've just been able to enjoy it in the same way I enjoy bad B-movies. After all, it's not that much stupider than Frank being a hitman for Angels... |
Though I DO love how Garth Ennis fixed that little debacle: "Heaven wanted me to fight demons for them and earn my redemption. I tried it.....didn't like it. I told them where to stick it and then they showed me my family and how they have been at peace since they bled to death in my arms. Then they cast me out, back to a world where new evils are born every minute and the only sane thing to do is throw drug lords off buildings. They though for me it would be h---...........they were WRONG!"
A nice and simple fix, too bad Frankencastle isn't fixed as simply.
Just armor him up and give him bigger and badder weaponry and call it a day >.>
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Precisely. Frank doesn't need super powers and he definitely doesn't need the supernatural.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Just armor him up and give him bigger and badder weaponry and call it a day >.>
|
For Frank Castle, the only things that I could accept him obtaining to help maintain his combat edge and skills would be to start taking Nick Fury's Infinity Formula (which is a derivative of the Super Soldier Serum) to slow down his aging, otherwise he needs to actually come across a sample of the Super Soldier Serum and utilize it. Frank pushes himself well past human endurance and pain tolerance levels and quite frankly should be dead a thousand times over. Give him the Super Soldier Serum and he will be at peak human levels of strength, speed, senses, stamina, etc just like Steve Rogers. The SSS slows down aging as well and with such a boost, Frank would be an even greater force to reckon with.
Wait till Ororo Munroe and Frank merge after an science accident. We will get...
...Stormin' D. Castle!
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Either that or else in a moment of utter lunacy, THOR allows Frank to be able to pick up Mjolnir and wield its power. |
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Wait till Ororo Munroe and Frank merge after an science accident. We will get...
...Stormin' D. Castle! |
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this is New York, even now, how many folks actually look up? so yeah, you could be on fire and most of those folks aren't really gonna care. also in swings spider-man and out walks... some dude, in NYC. if it were somewhere else i might buy that somebody would pay attention, maybe.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Frost
I mean spiderman has the most obvious form of travel ever, whenever he swung into a dark ally to change clothing there should be about a million people near by watching him 'cause their is no way to stealthly swing around in a bright red suit.
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but then again, i liked it when Parker revealed his identity to the world at large.
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Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Hows batman any less ridiculous than the punisher operating in a world of super powered people? Especially given people like Superman could bring him in any time he felt like it. He uses non-lethal force so there's always witnesses. Figuring out who he is wouldn't take much longer or perhaps would be easier because of that. Oh that's right, he's the gosh darn batman, he gets a free pass on everyone's disbelief while a guy with guns or a bow somehow so much more unrealistic. No they make as much sense as squirrel girl.
Like the punisher, batman does best when he's in his own book far away from any high powered supers. Bad @ss normals are really jarring in books with people who are on part with superman or silver surfer. They need stay in the shallow end of the pool. |
also, im not quite tracking how it would be easier to figure out who Bats is just because he doesn't kill anyone. not looking to sidetrack the thread, so shoot me a pm so we can properly gnash our teeth at one another.
as for the FrankenCastle thing, i havent read any of it because im not a big fan of Frank's. But the concept behind it is kinda amusing. It's not like he was going to stay dead anyway. They already tried that once and it didn't stick, so i don't see it sticking now. (oh look, it didn't!) To me it isn't whether or not they kill a character that would torque me off, because if a character dies, then at least someone cant screw them up. (generally)
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Well done. You win the thread.
|
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Wait till Ororo Munroe and Frank merge after an science accident. We will get...
...Stormin' D. Castle! |
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Well according to the writer, becoming Frankencastle was essentially Frank's "punishment" for biting off more then he could chew by taking on super powered criminals and not sticking with the street level criminals. I doubt it was ever intended to stick but it sure did a great job of killing the book and tarnishing the character far worse then when he was an agent of heaven, sometimes referred to as Zombisher or the Spawnisher by fans. |
Originally Posted by Veritech
this is New York, even now, how many folks actually look up? so yeah, you could be on fire and most of those folks aren't really gonna care. also in swings spider-man and out walks... some dude, in NYC. if it were somewhere else i might buy that somebody would pay attention, maybe.
but then again, i liked it when Parker revealed his identity to the world at large. the only reason they don't work is because you don't want to accept the dozens of reasons writers have already given and used for why they work in a world of superbeings. do agree it's jarring when the street leveled monkeys are playing in the god end of the pool, but that doesnt mean they don't fit in with some of the other supers. also, im not quite tracking how it would be easier to figure out who Bats is just because he doesn't kill anyone. not looking to sidetrack the thread, so shoot me a pm so we can properly gnash our teeth at one another. as for the FrankenCastle thing, i havent read any of it because im not a big fan of Frank's. But the concept behind it is kinda amusing. It's not like he was going to stay dead anyway. They already tried that once and it didn't stick, so i don't see it sticking now. (oh look, it didn't!) To me it isn't whether or not they kill a character that would torque me off, because if a character dies, then at least someone cant screw them up. (generally) |
So, let's see now...Frank has been an angel, and most recently an undead-Frankenstein imitation. Now he just needs to become a werewolf for awhile and then later get bit by a vampire and lose just enough blood to become a half-vampire like Blade for awhile.
Also for those that wonder how old Frank should be now in mainstream MU books since he is a Vietnam vet and been around for some time, the writer of Frankencastle has stated that the bloodstone will restore his body to full health and make him a 30 year old again. While in the Max Punisher its been stated that Frank has been in action for over 30 years and the Max books do not have the sliding timeline that the mainstream Marvel books have, thus Max Punisher should be in his mid 50's, possibly pushing 60.
Why not just let him die... is he really that popular? It's a guy in a black t-shirt with a large cross on it and he's carrying huge guns out to deliver vengeance on the guys that killed his family which he did already.
I've never understood why they keep going with him. He's done his thing and that should be that.
As far as saying Batman is like Punisher >.> Punisher is more or less a common thug. He's a well trained thug (as much as any american military person), but still a thug... a thug that does his thing in a t-shirt often without a plan and without motivation. Batman may have an "odd" costume but he and his crew are equipped and trained appropriately. They wear protection, have various equipment for recon and such and have training beyond that of the government. In the end Punisher is an idiot with a gun while Batman is a high tech military operative. Comparatively they don't stack up. If anything Batman is like a Green Lantern from a low tech planet.
Not sure which Punisher you've been reading, but Frank does have motivation (the death of his family. Kinda familiar?), wears an outfit with a skull not a cross, and does wear armor and sometimes uses high tech.
He also has plans, depending on the arc, and often infiltrates drug cabals or groups to tear them apart from the inside,
Punisher may be a little more outwardly unhinged.
"Ben is short for Frank."
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meant skull...im tired.|
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Not sure which Punisher you've been reading, but Frank does have motivation (the death of his family. Kinda familiar?), wears an outfit with a skull not a cross, and does wear armor and sometimes uses high tech.
He also has plans, depending on the arc, and often infiltrates drug cabals or groups to tear them apart from the inside, Punisher may be a little more outwardly unhinged. |
I also said or think i said he has a motivation, but it's been settled he killed the people that killed his familly. now he's just killing other bad guys now...
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Meh, Punisher is even comparable to Batman in that I believe in the current history (or maybe a retconned away one) the criminal behind the elder Waynes' murder has been caught.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
meant skull...im tired.
I also said or think i said he has a motivation, but it's been settled he killed the people that killed his familly. now he's just killing other bad guys now... |
Punisher and Batman both continue to "fight" crime. Frank is just a blunter tool than Bruce. And, no doubt, Batman can wipe the floor with Punisher.
One can make the arugment though that Punisher is a grittier, more outwardly psycotic version of Batman. Frank didn't have the "luxury" of Bruce with time and money. So he went to what he knew: blowing people away with military tactics.
Actually, has there ever been an Elseworlds story where Mama and Papa Wayne were killed when Bruce was an adult and how that would have shaped Batman?
"Ben is short for Frank."
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And the spit-take from J^3's office was worth every...last...cent the book cost.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
but then again, i liked it when Parker revealed his identity to the world at large.
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Is this an effin joke? What in the name of Cthulhu is Joephisto smoking? He lets this by, but writes OMIT and allows BND to continue?
UGH!!!