Not feelin' these Vigilante missions

I originally wrote more but had to close out so this'll be short & sweet:

When there's a bunch of bad guys in a warehouse, the vigilante response should be to chain the doors shut, light the place on fire and shoot in the head anyone who manages to get out. It shouldn't be to go to the bad guy's house, draw mustaches on his magazines, unscrew the top to his salt shaker and use his bathroom without flushing. Likewise, when you're done you shouldn't hear that some real heroes stopped the bad guys and saved the world while you were off dorking around because the bad guys should be in the leaking wet garbage bags where you left them.

There's some missions which get it right and the choice is between "Do it the nice legal and acceptable way" and "Kill them all with fire & poison gas". Too many have you pick between "Do the intelligent thing" and "Act like a complete idiot".

That said, I love the concept of the system and am glad to have it. Just wish going gray didn't require so many choices that are more intellectually questionable rather than morally questionable.

Hmmm... I haven't noticed this myself.

Most of the Vigilante mission I've seen have been about destroying the problem at the root, rather than dealing with the problem itself.

"Gang attacks building" the Vigilante response seems to be to kill the guy who ordered the attack, rather than stopping the attack itself.

But maybe I just haven't seen the ones you're referring too.

See, I found Rogue vs. Villain to be kinda the opposite. It's often...

Villain: Be really evil!
Rogue: Be kind of evil! And get paid for it!

When I started doing villainous missions on my stalker it seemed like all three tips I had were "use situation to lure random heroes into a trap". I did the first one and dropped the other two with a feeling of dread that they'd all be like that but thankfully the next two were much better.

I still got several others like that but I managed to get 10 done without too much repetition of that theme and no repition of tips (although now on my other villains I'm seeing all the same tips over again).

I haven't done very many hero tips. The only one I remember of the vigilante options was the one where I find a wanted poster of me... the vigilante move was to go beat up Longbow for daring to doubt my hero cred... which seemed kind of odd to me. But then I don't know how that mission would have turned out since I was running the heroic missions and got to beat up my clone instead.

Vigilantes come in two different flavors.


You get the softer vigilantes that will step outside of the law when necessary and do what it takes to stop a villain, but won't go so totally insane as to be borderline villainous. These characters have heroic intentions but realize that working within the law isn't the best route most of the time.

Then you get the more hardcore vigilantes, aka Punisher. These vigilantes go totally bat **** insane and will absolutely murder and destroy anything bearing resemblance to evil. They're entirely dedicated to getting rid of criminals and probably don't even know what a law is, let alone consider operating within it.

I feel these missions cater to both types of vigilantes at times, recognizing that just because you're a vigilante doesn't mean you're as nuts as the Punisher.



Also, rogues are in it for themselves. While villains go all out in the name of evil, world domination, making the hero's day terrible, etc. Rogues are in it for themselves, seeking to churn a profit and looking out for number one. They're more motivated by greed than by being evil for evil's sake.

All in all my biggest problem is we're stuck with the Dev's vision of what a rogue is and what a vigilante is... but that's kind of inevitable.

My second biggest problem is that the making of the choices is all about which clearly labeled mission you choose. I would think the path from hero to vigilante would be murkier, slippier, more subtle. It should be HARD to be a hero through and through.

Ideally I guess I would love to see a lot of little decisions influence where on the path you were:

Sneak through the mission and just take out the final bad guy? You get pushed off the Hero peg a bit, for heroes would take out all villians.

Rescue a kidnap victim but let them find their own way to the exit? Again, not as heroic as it could be!

Ignore a civilian yelling for help on the streets? Not heroic at all! (this would be way cool if random calls for help were seen uniquely by players as they patrolled... and the call led to appropriately leveled opponents.)


Anyway, I'd like the little decisions to matter... but maybe someday... For that would be a big change and require a lot more changes to do effectively... (btw, could of course be done other way as well... You're a villian who robbed the bank but didn't take out the witnesses? That's more rogueish than villianous, mister!)

Hero: You protect the innocent at all costs. Self-sacrifice is the name of your game. You're the paragon of what everyone thinks a hero should be. Examples: Superman, Captain America, Statesman, Spider-Man...

Vigilante: You fight evil at it's source. You kill it, maim it, humiliate it. No matter what, you find some way to make the bad guys pay. Sure, some innocents might get hurt or killed, but it's not your job to babysit them. That's what the cops are for. Examples: Punisher, Batman, Manticore, Wolverine.

Villain: This sort of character comes in two flavors. You're out to rule the world.... or destroy it. Either way, you're dominating. Megalomaniacs and psychopaths live here. No one will stop you. If they try, they die. You don't care who suffers, as long as you get what you want. Even your allies and minions are only there to be used and discarded. It's all about you. Only you are important. One day, the whole world will bow to you as you sit upon your throne. Or you'll have a gigglefit as everything burns. Examples: Doctor Doom, Lex Luthor, Lord Recluse, The Joker.

Rogue: You're out to get rich and live the good life, and you got the power to make that happen. Sure, you gotta break the law to do it, but so what? Life's more fun that way. While you might enjoy the occasional tussle with a hero, you don't really want to hurt people, though. You're not a nutcase. You just want an easy buck. If you rob a bank, you only knock out the guards. If you kidnap someone for ransom, you don't mistreat them. You're not evil, but you're no saint either. Still, you have enough morals that, sometimes, you'll actually do the right thing. But not too often. You gots to get paid, after all. Examples: Catwoman, Sandman, Black Cat.

Well it's a new System and i am Sure they be added new Vigilante Missions over time, If you have any Ideas of good Viglante Mission, post it on the Forums.

/jumps on sams back and rides him around like a pony.

it is an inevitable consequence of how individuals value different heroic actions. i know when i read ina's post, i had issues with a number of his classifications, but you know, its a personal thing, and the developers really can only work with the basic concepts they have laid out for the alignments and hope they hit people's happy points occasionally. Hopefully the system keeps growing and we see more refinement of the concepts. I know that i personally would love to see rogues be more good, but that is a personal valuation because i really dont like playing actual evil characters, and wouldn't work for everyone.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

I like the vigilante missions where you have to make the hard choice - save the two guys impressed by the Council (and persumably keep doing it, at least for the ones you hear about) or go destroy the lab that turns their "volunteers" into monsters and stop the cycle. Both are apparently heroic in the eyes of the authorities so no crossed lines as far as the law is concerned.

And when you come across an alignment mission that doesn't fit your personal view of that aligntment or your character then just drop it and hunt for a new one. That's what I did. Of course, it will help when they add new tip missions which I certainly hope they intend to do.

So far most of the vigilante missions I've done make you out more like a comically inept Punisher than anything else. You go in ready to crack some heads and get to the root of the problem, but you end up never solving anything - Neighborhoods destroyed, the real villains were elsewhere... Heck, I think in one of them you end up just beating up an innocent scientist that ended up being coerced and transformed.

Vigilantes are more fun

It's my intention to turn my dual pistols blaster into a Vigilante. In her background I made her an ex-cop who had to turn in her badge after too many instances of use of excessive force. She turned right around and signed up as a hero. I wanted her to be the "Dirty Harry" type, and I figured making her a Vigilante would be just perfect!

It's like the Rogue missions for me. I mean, I did not mind the let's steal the stuff and sell it ourselves, but I prefered the "Lets get this stuff out of the market before it does more harm than good". I liked the Villain -> Rogue Mission where Frostfire wanted the weapon so I could let him become a cop. Why could I not choose that option instead? That would have really highlighted the push from Villain to Rogue, while at the same time, keeping in with the mercenary attitude.

You know, the more I do these tip missions, the more I raise an eyebrow, and right now my eyebrows are about to hoist me off my chair, so I need to share this.

Here's the deal - I got this Pretty Evil Guy to level 20 and I figured... Well, he's evil and all. Might as well have 'im do a few evil missions and then do a villainous morality mission. See, Cedric is the world-conquering type, so I figured I might be able to oppress a few rebellious people, snag myself a few powerful artefacts, maybe capture a base or two. So what do my Villain missions entail?

Spread "smooth metal" around the Isles to make random people insane and go berserk. You know, because I'm a dick. Take out a Longbow base with possessed Wardens. You know, instead of breeding my own. And so on and so forth. But I figure... OK, that's not terribly ambitious, being a spoilsport jerk and all, but maybe my villain mission will be different. Maybe with that villain mission, I will finally be able to crush my enemies and attain a whole new level of power. Maybe finally people will realise that I'm a threat to the entire world. I'm big-time baby! Yeah!

So then my mission has me go beat up some criminal turned hero who's trying to rebuild Boomtown, because... I'm a gigantic evil dick, apparently. And because I seem to have accidentally fallen over backwards into a Saturday morning cartoon. See, the way I figure, this guy, this reformed villain who's building homeless shelters and orphanages and petting cute little puppies, he's good. And because he's good WE HATES HIM SO MUCH!!! His goodness! No, it burns! Hiss! Hiss! I'm evil, therefore good is a blight in my eyes! I will not be happy until we all grow long black moustaches we can twirl. And where was that cool shop that sold black top hats and silk capes. Oh, look, a damsel! Now I just need a length of rope and some convenient train tracks!

Seriously! What. The. Hell?!? Is that supposed to be the height of villainy? Is that the culmination of two... No three days of working my *** off being needlessly evil, selfish and dickish? All of that so I can go be an **** and spoil a dedication ceremony? Where's the conquest? Where's the awesome power-up? Where's my new shiny base? Where's my own country? You don't have to give me these things, but at least PRETEND like I have a shot at them. Seriously, I thought villains were out for power and destruction. I'm supposed to be a self-starter, and here I am playing polar opposite to a hero I've never even heard of.

Any good story needs a good villain, but a good villain is a credible, real threat. He's not someone who comes over to bust up your birthday party. He's the one who enslaves your country, burns down your village, shoots your dog and leaves you for dead in a ditch somewhere. What do I stand to gain from this... This silliness? Because I assure you, I am most certainly not in this for the evulz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You cant get your own country at level 20 Not sure what the level 50 villain morality mission is like but it cant be worse than the hero one which is basically talk to cop, defend yourself from being arrested, defeat the person who framed you.

The vig/rogue tips are by far the most fun/true to character tips i have done personally.

OK, I can't get my own country at 20 (doesn't seem to stop Virgil Duray, but what is the ever), but can my villain culmination missions at least be a little less petty? I mean, I'm basically angry because some guy is doing some good thing. It doesn't get any more petty than this, especially since the "excuse" is that many villain organisations conduct business in Boomtown. Who gives a flying duck about other villains? Why do I care about Boomtown?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.