Going Rogue/Issue 18 - Patch notes & Known Issues for build 1850.201007290104.20T2

AMD puts out new drivers the last week of every month.

Just wanted to update: I upgraded to the 10.8 drivers yesterday, and it fixed the problem for me. I now have everything running maxed out with no problems.

Is your 5-year-old paying the sub fees?

I, too, enjoy a challenge, and appreciate a huge amount of what went into Praetoria. But...

True story (since we seem to be into this):

3-person team, all 4-5 year vets. Clockwork mish. Pretty much instakilled by the stacked spawn of Builders and Menders with their uber AOEs- you know, the ones that KEEP DAMAGING YOU WHEN YOU RESPAWN in the hospital, because dying and porting doesn't reset the counter? Plus the -regen from the minions.

Naturally, it was our fault for having mostly lethal/smashing damage, and 2 of us are WP. We should have 'practiced' and rolled other characters.

All that does is provide further evidence that it is intentional especially since it was mentioned in beta

Or you could've just shrugged it off and tried something else ... like pulling.

The spawns are also pretty bad for any character without status protection

/em starts beating dead horse

Yes, cause plinking away at them one at a time from around a corner is not only FUN, it's SUPER. And it works great, that is until they rush and wipe you anyway, just for kicks.

I'm sorry, but pulling isn't a panacea for poor design.

Hey you're the one complaining it's to hard, not me. I haven't had a problem yet. Not on my solo stalker, not on my solo dom, not on my blaster/corr duo.

I still say that there's nothing more diffucult than Vahzilok in Praetoria.

You do realize it's SIGNIFICANTLY easier to solo Praetoria than it is to run with a large team, right? If you're just soloing and not playing on a 5-8 person team then you're not going to see the problems others are.

And really, just because *you* don't see it means it doesn't exist? Too bad we're not on the same servers cause honestly I'd love to add you to a large team and show you exactly what we're all complaining about.

Vahziloks are CAKE compared to Clockwork, Syndicate, and Destroyers. The only thing that comes close IMO are post level-41 Longbow.

Just to be clear, other than having Blast Masters in tight (indoor) maps (think office buildings, not say the new tunnels), I have no issues with the difficulty in Praetoria.

This holds true for solo play, and small-med group play, which is what I've mostly engaged in since GR went live, and with multiple ATs

Had a bit of a rough experience running with an 8-man team, but that was specifically against Destroyers, in an office map, which was already on fire, so hordes of Blast Masters made visibility and places to be able to stand safely, a problem. Also, I believe it was some player's first experience with Blast Masters. We had a team wipe. No big deal. We changed our tactics, played a bit smarter, and finished the map with only one more death.

Other than the visibility/confined speaces issue, I fail to see the problem.

Again, you need to play more on large teams. It seems like those who keep saying "I don't see a problem" only play solo or in very small teams.

Let's also remember that we're talking about BASE difficulty. I imagine most of you are accustomed to playing with the difficulty turned way up and are used to the increased "challenge". But not everyone does that (honestly, everyone I play with runs on -1x2 well into their 20s). If the base difficulty in Praetoria is equivalent to +2x3 in Primal Earth, then that's not right.

Now this I completely agree with (other than the "far far better" part ).

Perhaps.

But my large-team experience showed that a change of play-style netted favorable results (and no, it wasn't about pulling single mobs to doors/corners).

As for how I normally have my settings, it varies by toon and team. Some toons run at max solo, some at -1/x2-x3 and as team size changes, I may adjust (or not).

I think it would be a good idea to have the difficulty adjusters put into Praetoria. That lets those that are having problems make life a bit easier. I am completely against further nerfing of Praetorian mobs. I like where they are.

As a matter of fact, I have not enjoyed playing the game this much for quite some time, and that experience seems to be echoed by the people I've played with.

You were on *1* large team against *1* particular type of group. I think you need to get out more. If you're going to make a broad sweeping comment about how you think the difficulty is ok you really should experience what others are complaining about first. Otherwise it's a tad bit disingenuous, no?

The problem with leaving the base difficulty of Praetoria as-is is that even if you drop the difficulty to -1 it's still going to be too much for most people.

I'm sorry if you feel you're entitled to a level of difficulty that leaves other players wanting to quit and never return. But I guess whatever works for you, right?

I'm sorry if you feel you're entitled to a level of difficulty that leaves other players bored rather than enjoying themselves. But I guess whatever works for you, right?

Get off your high horse and cut the [WARNING EXPLICIT LYRICS]. This is about opinions, and yours is no more valid than mine.

If a differing opinion leads you to unprovoked personal attacks, then you have no place in a discussion. This is especially true when I have, in various posts in this thread, both voiced my disagreements with certain design decisions and advocated for a way to make things easier for those experiencing difficulties.

Also what I described was my 8 man team experience, which wasn't just limited to 1 mish, btw. While most of my experience has been on 1-5 man teams, not all of it has. Unless you think a 7 man team is not a valid basis for "large team" comparison?

The usual assumptions and play-styles of CoH have changed in Praetoria. An 8-man/large team is not necessarily better, and certain play-styles don't work well. Change or die...

... or quit I suppose.

Actually it's about you trying to force your opinions on others. Cause it's not all about YOU. YOU like it the way it is, so of course anyone that doesn't isn't entitled to their opinion, we just need to learn how to play better, right? Explain exactly how a new player is supposed to learn how to play better when they have 0 experience in the game? Yeah, go on, I'm listening. Oh yeah, that's right, you don't give a [MANURE] about anyone else's play experience except your own. So what if there are a dozen or more posts here and a few hundred in the beta forums complaining about the increased difficulty. Those opinions don't matter. Only yours does, right?

Let's also not forget that once field analysts are put in the ability to increase the difficulty goes up by a few orders of magnitude. Down? Not so much. So those that don't like this level of difficulty, who also plopped down their $40 and HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLAY WHATEVER WAY THEY WANT, have zero options. And you're ok with that. Sorry, but that attitude is obnoxious, arrogant, and unacceptable. Cause you're not the only person that subscribes to this game.

You sir, are a [MALE DONKEY]. You may now join GMan3 on my ignore list.

To summarize:

Those that think the difficulty is too hard are pushing for it to be reduced knowing that those who want more of a challenge will be able to up the slider and get it.

Those that think the difficulty is perfect as-is don't give a [COITUS] about what anyone else thinks or feels; they just need to suck it up or quit.

Did I miss anything?

And I'm done here. The argument is getting old and I'm over it.

Did you miss anything? Plenty. And at the same time, it would seem you mentally added things that were not there.

a) Show me where I'm "tying to force my opinions" on anyone. Until you threw a hissy-fit in my direction and started with personal attacks, I was having a calm discussion, talking about my experiences, likes and dislikes on this subject.

b) My opinion, is, in fact, all about me... specifically what I like or dislike. Just like yours is all about you. The difference? I don't throw a fit when someone offers a dissenting opinion.

c) I specifically stated that your opinion "is no more valid than mine". Nowhere did I say you were not entitled to yours, nor that yours was inferior.

d) When you "have 0 experience in the game" is when you have the greatest potential to learn, especially when there are large amounts of veteran players around from whom you can learn. In some ways, you may be better off, because you are not coming in with assumptions about how things "should" work.

e) Much like here, while there are a number of posts in the beta forums complaining about difficulty, for the most part, they are simply the same people complaining over and over. In my testing, almost none of the people I ran with complained about the difficulty. Is that anecdotal? Sure. But so are the experiences of those bothering to complain on the boards. Datamining will give the devs actionable data. Everything else is just speculation.

f) The types of difficulty increases offered by difficulty shifting are specifically not the types of things that make fighting these mobs enjoyable (for me, at least). Giving them more hp, making them hit more, take less damage, etc, isn't the same type of challenge these mobs provide versus "standard" CoH mobs. You have to think more, fight smarter and try new things until you figure out what to do against a given group. Raising the level does not provide that. So, nerfing the mobs by changing how they function, which is what you seem to be advocating, will make them less fun for me (and others who share my opinion), regardless of the ability to raise the difficulty. Allowing you to lower the difficulty, however, will make it easier for you.

g) You do not "HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLAY WHATEVER WAY [you] WANT". You have the right to play the game as intended by the devs. Within those parameters you can play how you want, but that doesn't mean you'll get the results you want.

h) As to your summary, most things are covered above, but I want to make something clear: I did not tell you (or anyone else) to quit. You threatened to quit, which is what I alluded to at the end of my previous post.

Finally, putting me on ignore... shrug. It's an interesting move, given that you went personal (first... I admittedly responded somewhat in kind) when there was simply a discussion at hand. It's the equivalent of taking your ball and going home, when you're losing a game, even though it was played by your rules.

If you did go through with your 'threat" you may never see this (unless someone quotes it w/o the tags to me), but I felt it important to address this type of behavior, as it's popping up on the boards in a number of places. Everyone on the boards is entitled to an opinion. If it's counter to yours, that doesn't mean that people are saying you don't count. It means they disagree. and that's ok. Please leave whatever r/l persecution issues you may have off of these boards, and try to stick to rational discussions.


Peace.

I have to agree with Hallowed here and I'll leave it at that.