Thoughts about KM
By
Alter666,
Posted on: 2010-08-23 14:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Stalkers don't get Power Siphon, they have a regular Build Up instead. Power Siphon wouldn't mesh well with stalker's AS and placate.
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Originally Posted by Soulwind
Now, all that said, Kinetic Melee is NOT the best suited powerset for Brutes and Tanks as they lack the base damage before Power Siphon and they lack Critical Hits for the instant recharge of Power Siphon that lets Scrappers and Stalkers keep it up almost constantly.
Note that I said it's not the BEST suited powerset. It is perfectly acceptable for Brutes and Tanks (and I'm simply loving my KM/EA Brute), but you have to live with a slightly lower "top end of power" that Scrappers can achieve with it. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
KM seems best on the stalker IMO. It is like Elec control is better on Doms (IMO once again). The animation on KM AS is awesome. I do agree that the attacks animation time is not that long, but with low hp, the enemies attack you before you fire of the attack in many cases, so you do have to be cautious. In otherwords, the animation time can cause significant pain to some sets. I use my reconstruction power on the earlier side of the battle in many cases.
My KM/WP stalker Praetorian just hit 20 and I headed off to Paragon soon to be the heroic assassin (lol). Lots of ambushes in the Praetorian arcs were a pain, so hard to ever use AS, although I think I died only a couple of times. So, I can scrap it out, but I have all the vet powers to back up my attacks(sands of mu, nemesis staff, black wand). If I was a noobie, I think the set would be more challenging to play.
The only thing that kind of bugs me about the set is that the noises sound like NASCAR to me, but I can live with it.
That may be my issue... I don't have all the vet powers only sands of mu. so once I get those extras maybe I'll fair better cause I was able o wistand the ambuses of just once I got into mobs I finish the big guy and the minons take me out.
Hell yeah the AS looks awesome.... like a Kamahama stance... Bing... I'm making a KM DBZ themed toon.
LvL 50s: Jewelious, SharktooghGrinner, Energy Fox Hound, Vibradiumforce
My words: I the bard of ages, Looking to sky for angels. I'll never be that of a the enlightened, I am only the burdened.
KM is pretty much just reskinned Claws with a couple of different tricks, so it's not going to be doing Broadsword-level DPA.
However...
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How can you complain about the damage of KM then turn around and say you like DP ? DP has fairly low damage compared to most other blast sets.
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Originally Posted by Alter666
It's prolly just me... I not a melee person anyway... I love my blasters... DP is the bomb. two shoting same level foes is awesome. I love the look of it... I'll try the willpower kin tank... more hitpoints... might not de as fast. I love the stalker concept being all ninja... they jus can't take a punch I guess. Bt this all could be my horible luck.... nah... can't be that.
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~union4lyfe~
IMO KM feels more or less like a revamped SS set by taking out Handclap and putting in a blaster NRG torrent. Here's a comparative of attack powers, disregarding order for KM set from Mid's:
Brute SS:
Jab 1.07s 28.4
Punch 1.2s 41.7
Haymaker 1.5s 68.4
Handclap (No KM equivalent, replaced with Energy Torrent)
Knockout BLow 2.23s 148.5
Hurl 2.5s 68.4
Footstomp 2.5s 68.4
Brute KM:
Quick Strike 0.83s 35
Body Blow 1.07s 48.4
Smashing Blow 1.2s 61.7
Concentrated Strike 2.83s 148.5
Focused Burst 2.0s 68.4
Burst 2.67s 52.1
Repulsing Torrent 2.0s 33.0
Blaster NRG:
Energy Torrent 1.07s 60.1* (blaster dmg scale)
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Quick Strike - Casts 0.24s faster than Jab, and deals 6.6 more damage.
Body Blow - Casts 0.13s faster than Punch, and dealing 6.7 more damage.
Smashing Blow - Casts 0.3s faster than Haymaker, but does 6.7 less damage.
Concentrated Strike - Cast takes 0.6s longer than Knockout Blow, damage is the same.
Burst - Cast takes 0.17s longer than Foot Stomp, and deals 16.3 less damage.
Repulsing Torrent - Cast takes 0.93s longer than Energy Torrent, no comparison on damage (I don't remember Blaster -> Brute damage conversion off the top of my head).
So yeah, just a simple comparison that doesn't take Rage and Power Siphon into account, but it shows you the similarities between the two power sets. It also shows that KM's first 2 attacks are hands down better than SS, but the set begins to balance starting from Smashing Blow by dealing less damage, taking longer to cast, or a combination of both.
I'm still leveling my KM/SD though, and it'll take a while before I can really make a good judgement on the set.
This was just my piliminary feeling about KM threw the eyes of my stalker that was way squishy.... now that my brute is out of the new zones I'm mercing mobs and not dieing as much. I'll try a KM stalker again hopeing I have better luck this time around.
LvL 50s: Jewelious, SharktooghGrinner, Energy Fox Hound, Vibradiumforce
My words: I the bard of ages, Looking to sky for angels. I'll never be that of a the enlightened, I am only the burdened.
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not really. most other melee sets are pretty flexible
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
It's the same as in other sets?
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(More) Flexible about rooting? Explain please.
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Originally Posted by Terror1
not really. most other melee sets are pretty flexible
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Still doesn't change that the fact that Concentrated Strike recharges Build-Up on a crit.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Stalkers don't get Power Siphon, they have a regular Build Up instead. Power Siphon wouldn't mesh well with stalker's AS and placate.
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Kinda wondering about that myself.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
(More) Flexible about rooting? Explain please.
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sometimes you dont get rooted?
I played it on a stalker...and, the second attack looked like it took a full 2 seconds instead of the 1 second Real numbers claimed.
But preatoria is laggy as all get out.....although i was in the sewer....clean sewer by the way......so yeah, guess itll be a while till you people quit playing so I can take an actual look at the set.
so, probly next week when I can give my completely casual observation about the set.
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I personally felt it to be a late bloomer. With focused burst and concentrated strike it is EPIC.
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Originally Posted by Alter666
Sup Heroes and Villains I've been playing the new zones and new melee power Kinetic Melee. And I was all hyped up about it until I played it. I was disappointed, I was thinking that I was going to be able to siphon the end of the enemy like Protean. but that is the lest of my let downs the big one is the total lack of damage I find that KM has. I haven't played Elev control enough to say much about it. but so far compared to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning Ken Melee is a major let down. Both DP and DS are every well rounded and match the power sets really well, but my stalker I made was way to squishy unlike the other ones I've made. I then tried the set on a higher defense archetype but found that even as a brute I wasn't dealing the damage I get from SS. I'm not sure if it is just me. But I think KM is just too much show and not enough go.
I'd like to know what you guys think. Please keep it civil. barking annoys me. |
Ooh, yeah, I totally forgot how laggy the servers have been lately.
How much you want to bet that a bunch of the KM haters have only played it on the recently ultra-lag servers?
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Stuff like dark, elec even energy are far easier bypass getting rooted while after each kin melee attack it feels like shout levels of rooting(except for quick strike and sometimes body blow) or the blaster fire blast aftercast.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Kinda wondering about that myself.
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Got sapped by protean several times after getting stuck.
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Please tell me how to bypass getting rooted on my DM brute. Shadow Maul wants to know!
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Originally Posted by Terror1
Stuff like dark, elec even energy are far easier bypass getting rooted while after each kin melee attack it feels like shout levels of rooting(except for quick strike and sometimes body blow) or the blaster fire blast aftercast.
Got sapped by protean several times after getting stuck. |
I just want to point out that one of my friends love Kinetic because of Repulsing Torrent. He thinks it's so comical.
Just to show you different people have different taste.
Kinetic Melee doesn't need to be the highest damage. Being "average" is ok because there can only be one highest damage set and the rest are just "average" or "below average".
I made a Kinetic Stalker so I don't have Replusing. The PbAoe attack has 100% critical from hidden which is decent but at the cost of small radius. I am just happy that Stalker has at least one aoe from the set.
Overall, Kinetic seems very solid with a neat trick in Siphon Power. I am just glad it's not another Build Up. Same reason why I like Dual Pistol (although I really think they can trim down the weapon draw a bit).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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If by "bypass" you mean "attack while not rooted" that's always a bug, a bug that the devs have spent significant amounts of time trying to fix. I've sent them lots of data on it myself.|
Originally Posted by Terror1
Stuff like dark, elec even energy are far easier bypass getting rooted while after each kin melee attack it feels like shout levels of rooting(except for quick strike and sometimes body blow) or the blaster fire blast aftercast.
Got sapped by protean several times after getting stuck. |
You're not supposed to be able to bypass rooting in that sense at all. Don't get used to it.
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Quote:
No i´m not talking about attacking during another attacks cast time.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If by "bypass" you mean "attack while not rooted" that's always a bug, a bug that the devs have spent significant amounts of time trying to fix. I've sent them lots of data on it myself.
You're not supposed to be able to bypass rooting in that sense at all. Don't get used to it. |
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Then I still don't know what you're referring to. Kinetic Melee's roots seem to be appropriate to their cast times, and KM's cast times are not excessive compared to the average cast times for comparable melee sets. It doesn't root a lot more overall. Certainly not excessively so compared to energy melee or electric melee.
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Originally Posted by Terror1
No i´m not talking about attacking during another attacks cast time.
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I think he means that by having micro-rooting due to quicker casting attacks (irrelevant to DPS) he gets more opportunities to react to circumstances. Like underestimating a spawn and realizing you are still mid cast giving you lesser oportunity to run/heal/teleport/phase-shift/etc.
Not exactly what he spelled out, but the only way I can make any sense of what he is saying.
Mind you, even at this point there are sets that suffer this much worse than KM, like Energy Melee.
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Of the three sets he mentioned (Dark, Elec, Energy) only Dark has generally faster cast times and rooting times. The other two should be similar or worse than KM in this regard.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
I think he means that by having micro-rooting due to quicker casting attacks (irrelevant to DPS) he gets more opportunities to react to circumstances. Like underestimating a spawn and realizing you are still mid cast giving you lesser oportunity to run/heal/teleport/phase-shift/etc.
Not exactly what he spelled out, but the only way I can make any sense of what he is saying. Mind you, even at this point there are sets that suffer this much worse than KM, like Energy Melee. |
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What!? Seriously? This is the first I'm hearing of this...might have to make a KM stalker then.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
The PbAoe attack has 100% critical from hidden which is decent but at the cost of small radius.
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I was enjoying KM then I hit 22 and threw in some SOs now it is even more fun.
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I went with Willpower as the secondary on my KM stalker as well. I've been dissapointed with it being so squishy and not being able to kill much. I thought that the stalker setup looked better than the other AT's versions, but now I'm thinking I should have gone brute or scrapper. |
Originally Posted by Alter666
I'm diggin my Brute but I started with a stalker thinking it would suite it better like Soulwind says but thee whites in a mob and I'm almost done in when I had the KM/WP I'll find out if it is just my luck or the raised deff of Preatoria that made my stalker squishy. as I have a stalker set up I think its NS/regen.... not sure been a while... I've been palying my DP/EM blaster witch so far I'm having no issues with...
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The shield combo on the scrapper sounded interesting.
@Joshua.
I'm diggin my Brute but I started with a stalker thinking it would suite it better like Soulwind says but thee whites in a mob and I'm almost done in when I had the KM/WP I'll find out if it is just my luck or the raised deff of Preatoria that made my stalker squishy. as I have a stalker set up I think its NS/regen.... not sure been a while... I've been palying my DP/EM blaster witch so far I'm having no issues with...
LvL 50s: Jewelious, SharktooghGrinner, Energy Fox Hound, Vibradiumforce
My words: I the bard of ages, Looking to sky for angels. I'll never be that of a the enlightened, I am only the burdened.