At what point does 'More AoE' become 'Too Much AoE?'
When it kills +4 bosses.
Edit: not to say that's what you should be fighting but since you COULD BE then not being able to obliterate them all in one chain isn't enough.
No such thing....
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
As it reflects something that is impossible, it's grammatically incorrect to have "To Much" modify "AoE."
| 'Too Much AoE?' |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Does. Not. Compute.
Too much AoE... error found.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
I'd stick to 3, maybe 4. Breath + Ball is usually plenty. Adding Scream or Tents or Nightfall can be nice, especially vs. +3s or higher. However, I think the Soul Mastery AoEs are not very good (narrow cones, low damage, long recharge).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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When you can't use them as fast as they recharge you have too much.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
So when should you consider another AoE attack on a single character redundant?
|
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
When you don't have the defenses to back it up.. |
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
So, starting a new Blaster in Praetoria, I am once again compelled to use the combination of Fire Blast/Mental Manipulation.
But when looking through the new options for future building, I come across Soul Mastery... and am immediately struck by the detail that is has both Soul Tentacles (Tenebrous Tentacles by another name) and Nightfall - another cone AoE. On a lark, I put them together, and yes, you can take and reasonable slot Fire Ball, Fire Breath, Rain of Fire, Inferno, Psychic Scream, Psychic Shockwave, Night Fall, and Soul Tentacles. ... But really... would it be worth the effort? I mean, even ignoring Rain of Fire, Inferno, and Psychic Shockwave, I think it still goes over the bar of an AoE Attack Chain... So when should you consider another AoE attack on a single character redundant? |
If your not defense capped in S/L and ranged or at least Ranged. What is the point.. You will be a glass cannon.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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^^^This!!!|
Originally Posted by magikwand
Does. Not. Compute.
Too much AoE... error found. |
Speaking of which is the most aoe combo for a blaster
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
It all depends on what fits into your attack chain. Miladys_Knight said it first, and I'll elaborate.
The point at which said AoE attack sits on your bar unused is the point at which it's too much. AoE vs. Single target, AoE has potential to do far more for less effort in any situation except vs. the single hard target. DPA and DPE are almost always better (when calculating for multiple targets), and at very high recharge, it's all about DPA and DPE.
With that said, my Fire/Fire blaster has about 170% global recharge and I dropped Combustion and Burn because I never used them. At high recharge, Breath/Ball/FSC did the trick for upwards of +2 minions, and by the time FSC finishes going off, Breath is ready to go again.
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I am not for the melee blasters. Blasters just dont do enough damage in melee in my opinion for them to even go there. Considering how defenseless they are compared to other range classes in other MMOs blasters are like light years behind. Is there a similar AoE monster combo that can do all of this but at range?
|
Originally Posted by Blaksson
It all depends on what fits into your attack chain. Miladys_Knight said it first, and I'll elaborate.
The point at which said AoE attack sits on your bar unused is the point at which it's too much. AoE vs. Single target, AoE has potential to do far more for less effort in any situation except vs. the single hard target. DPA and DPE are almost always better (when calculating for multiple targets), and at very high recharge, it's all about DPA and DPE. With that said, my Fire/Fire blaster has about 170% global recharge and I dropped Combustion and Burn because I never used them. At high recharge, Breath/Ball/FSC did the trick for upwards of +2 minions, and by the time FSC finishes going off, Breath is ready to go again. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
Arch/Men, AR/Men, and Fire/Mental are great rangers, but nothing can compare to Fire/Fire in melee.
|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I am not for the melee blasters. Blasters just dont do enough damage in melee in my opinion for them to even go there. Considering how defenseless they are compared to other range classes in other MMOs blasters are like light years behind. Is there a similar AoE monster combo that can do all of this but at range?
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Lol, tell that to my Rad/Fire, who makes ranged blasters look like chumps.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I am not for the melee blasters. Blasters just dont do enough damage in melee in my opinion for them to even go there. Considering how defenseless they are compared to other range classes in other MMOs blasters are like light years behind. Is there a similar AoE monster combo that can do all of this but at range?
|
Quote:
I've obviously never figured out how to softcap defense when you start with 0.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
When you don't have the defenses to back it up..
If your not defense capped in S/L and ranged or at least Ranged. What is the point.. You will be a glass cannon. |
Still, there's a point here, as I think I could squeeze out 20% Ranged defense on a build taking all the AoE available.
I'll see what I can do with it. I Have no idea how to calculate what kind of recharge I need for a chain, but I think I can work with Fireball/Fire Breath/Psychic Scream and one other. (Probably either a Patron AoE Immobilize, or just move in for Psychic Shockwave.)
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
I think if you can chain your AoE powers together, maybe with the odd Blaze, then that's "enough" AoE. However over-the-top isn't going to hurt but I'm not a fan of Psy Scream or the Soul Tentacles.
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Favourite Toons: Prosper [Ill/Rad] Controller :: Infinitus [Fire/Elec] Blaster :: Pocket Dynamo [Fire/Shield] Scr :: Fast [Cold/Sonic] Def ::
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Too much AoE is when you've got AoEs you don't use because your best ones are more than enough.
Fireball, Breath, RoF and PSW is plenty. Psy Scream maaaaybe.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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Go with Ice Mastery instead for Frozen Armor, then you can softcap your S/L defense. Softcapped defense and Drain Psyche is phenomenal. Soul Tentacles and Nightfall are small cones, I don't think they're worth it at all.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
I've obviously never figured out how to softcap defense when you start with 0.
|
To get the most out of a MM Blaster, you better be in melee for PSW since it's one of your best attacks.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
Have you tried Rad/Fire StratoNexus? My Rad/Fire rivals (and may have even surpassed) my Fire/Fire.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Arch/Men, AR/Men, and Fire/Mental are great rangers, but nothing can compare to Fire/Fire in melee.
|
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
YOU GIT, YOU CAN NEVAH HAVE ENUFF DAKKA! ER, AE OH EE.
In a more serious note, I think that if your already killing all the minions with two or three AoE powers, that's enough. If your other AoE power is recharged by the time you fire off your last one, that's enough.
Quote:
(rant)Okay... This is a sore point with me. I get the impression that you don't play many blasters, since you're asking about combinations. Let me explain some things.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I am not for the melee blasters. Blasters just dont do enough damage in melee in my opinion for them to even go there. Considering how defenseless they are compared to other range classes in other MMOs blasters are like light years behind. Is there a similar AoE monster combo that can do all of this but at range?
|
First off. Blaster melee damage tends to be higher than any other melee type SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they don't have defenses.
Secondly, there's PLENTY of pool and IO setups that provide plenty of mitigation. I can't speak for other MMOs, but my Fire/Fire/Flame is NOT defenseless.
Thirdly, Staying at Range does not guarantee your survival, nor does it prevent damage. You only have ONE ranged powerset, the other is a combination of mitigation, utility, and melee. Only using your ranged powers as a blaster makes as much sense as the "Pure Empaths" that were running around, or making a tanker with no attacks or a scrapper with no armors.
Finally, your statement is making the assumption that you will recieve no outside buffs. No Mystic Fortune, No Secondary Mutation, no inspires, no teammates.
I've got two builds, one is balls-out recharge, and about half survivability. That's the teaming build. The second build is geared around softcapping Smash/Lethal/Melee, keeping moderate resistances, approaching the hp cap, and then secondarily boosting recharge.
Here's my first build. About half the defenses I could get, but he does fine for himself on teams.
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To the OP: I think we all seem to be in agreement, that while AoE is good, and more options are good, that the Nightfall and Tentacles are probably overkill, since you should have plenty of AoE in your primary and secondary. If it were me, I would leverage PSW, Ball, Breath, and Scream with an in-and-out combat style. Leap in, PSW, leap out, Use a cone, Ball, Cone, leap in, PSW. It's all near-melee range, and should be enough AoE, even with moderate levels of recharge or just hasten, to do the job.
Did somebody say AOE!?
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Elec/Fire/Mu. There's some AoE for you.
..Needs more though.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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For what it's worth, Soul Tentacles is also an AOE Immobilize, which is always handy to have with the rain powers, Rain of Fire in particular (since it cannot be slotted for Slow).
Not sure I'd do it, though. With the other AOEs available, your foes should be long dead before RoF gets even halfway through.
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You have enough AoE when you have a non-stop AoE-only attack chain that cannot be improved by swapping one of the attacks out with a better one (for instance replacing a low damage cone with a more powerful but longer recharge patron / epic cone every other set of attacks). Any AoEs beyond that point are too much since they will never be used... unless of course they have desirable effects other than damage you might use them for (like -recharge or immobilize).
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
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Negative. Mace Mastery for Scorpion Shield. Smashing, lethal AND Energy defense, and you don't need to take any other powers to get it. (so no need to take an AoE sleep, or a slow toggle, just to get your armor) |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Go with Ice Mastery instead for Frozen Armor, then you can softcap your S/L defense.
|
That way, you can still softcap your S/L defense, and if you throw Thunderstrikes in your ranged single target attacks, along with a couple other sets, you can get a good chunk of Energy defense as well. And voila, you have defense to the 3 most common damage types in the game. (Energy defense will help you avoid a good number of mezzes as well, but don't count on that, they seem to slip one through at the worst possible times)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Rad/Fire is excellent as well. My SG has several people playing Rad/Fire and my wife's is 50.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Have you tried Rad/Fire StratoNexus? My Rad/Fire rivals (and may have even surpassed) my Fire/Fire.
|
I had wanted to play a Rad/Fire blaster, but I never ended up making one after test. Irradiate + FSC + HF = mmmmm.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
So, starting a new Blaster in Praetoria, I am once again compelled to use the combination of Fire Blast/Mental Manipulation.
But when looking through the new options for future building, I come across Soul Mastery... and am immediately struck by the detail that is has both Soul Tentacles (Tenebrous Tentacles by another name) and Nightfall - another cone AoE.
On a lark, I put them together, and yes, you can take and reasonable slot Fire Ball, Fire Breath, Rain of Fire, Inferno, Psychic Scream, Psychic Shockwave, Night Fall, and Soul Tentacles.
...
But really... would it be worth the effort? I mean, even ignoring Rain of Fire, Inferno, and Psychic Shockwave, I think it still goes over the bar of an AoE Attack Chain...
So when should you consider another AoE attack on a single character redundant?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-