To NCSoft Support regarding the EU servers

A forewarning: This post contains a story of an American player wanting to play on the EU servers and ultimately failing in procuring the content he wanted to puchase. For some reason, he feels like writing in the third person for this forewarning, and would like to point out that this is not a slam on the EU community, but a poking and proding at an issue he has experienced in dealing with NCSoft Support in the past few weeks. Nothing more. Nothing less. If there is need to comment, don't hesitate. Say what is necessary, and let this story be heard by at least someone in the NCSoft support department.

To whom it may concern at NCSoft that stumbles upon this,

Hiya. I go by the moniker of AZSolii and am a citizen of the United States of America. I'm not exactly well known amongst the communities of either CoX in Europe or in the United States, but I'd like to take the time to give a message should you take the time to read this.

I've been an NCSoft customer since the spring of 2008 when I created my account for City of Heroes US side. The game was a blast, I met a lot of awesome friends, shared many meaningful experiences, and I regard my playing experience in City of Heroes to be among the best enjoyment out of any MMO I have ever played. I've played over ten different MMORPGs on and off the past several years, but if you ask me which one is my favorite out of any of them, I'll point to City of Heroes and tell you to try it. No other game, despite its weak endgame content (currently), entertained me as much as City of Heroes did and has.

However, in time, I grew bored of it for other MMOs that my real life friends were playing at the time (World of Warcraft, EvE Online, Guild Wars, Maple Story, I could go on...). In the midst of this, I met new friends when I played Champions Online who live in Britain. So, after the lot of them got bored playing it, they started looking forward towards Going Rogue with eager anticipation. Eventually, I found myself matching their gravitation towards it and, after talking it over with them on Teamspeak, I wanted to join in the European servers to join their adventures in not only playing the game, but also to involve myself in their roleplay community on Union.

So, I went to the NCStore to attempt to purchase the EU version of the game by clicking the associated link. I noticed I couldn't use paypal. "OK" I thought, "I'll just use my card."

I enter the information, click submit, and...

"FRAUD SUSPICION"

...huh. I'm pretty sure my identity and my name on the card didn't just magically shift in the past few seconds. I try again.

"FRAUD SUSPICION"

...OK, maybe the number is wrong?

"FRAUD SUSPICION"

...and so on, this goes on, as I try card after card. NOTHING I have works or is accepted. So I can't purchase the game through any method online.

But then I remembered: I have a US account in good standing with several serials applied to it. Surely I could just simply transfer the ownership of the account and forsake everything I've done on the US account to start fresh on EU, right?

So, I sent a support ticket through the NCSoft Support system asking about the request. After getting back and forth messages of answering questions like "Name serials you have on this account" and the like, I decided to call them directly in their strange oddly placed hours of 12-5PM CST, M-F. I get through and the support guy pulls up my ticket, realizing they were simply just trying to confirm that that was in fact my account. After doing so through voice to fully confirm ownership, I restated my request. He told me there was no way to do that. I insisted, and (I think) he resigned to talk to the head of his department, which resulted in a big fat "No."

Granted, I was disheartened, but I wasn't just about to give up yet. Instead, I asked about the serial codes used for the packs and the expansion, asking if they were region sensitive (meaning, they could be used either or on an established version of the game). Reason being was that I asked about my declined cards. He said that all of them were denied by my bank it seemed. More than likely due to a fraud protection on their side for international transactions, which is fair enough. He said that it wouldn't be an issue as long as I had an active EU account. If I had that, I would be in the clear to use paypal, my credit card, or anything else with no issues.

I tell my friends this, and we agree to have one of them purchase a boxed copy from one of the shops in the UK. He gets the box, tells me the serial, I upgrade my trial with no hitches! Account creation get after two weeks of trying to figure out how to get me in the game in the easiest possible manner. A bit much, but I endure it. Now, I remember what that support guy said to me about serials not being region sensitive. So, I go to addon some of the packs like the Ninja and Superscience packs (Those being my favorites). I click "Buy now". I select my EU account. Payment options include nothing but credit cards.

...huh, that's weird. I thought I could use paypal like I could for when I upgraded my American account.

Noticing that I hadn't gotten the Mutant pack yet for US side, I figured I'd give it a try to see if they didn't do paypal anymore. I click "Buy now". Select my US Account--Oh hey! Paypal is an option for payment, and I can use it without a hitch! Now, let's see if I can actually use my credit card to purchase the European booster since it isn't region sensiti--

"FRAUD SUSPICION"

...you're kidding. I'm giving you money by a legitimate function, and you're saying "I don't want it". Granted, I know fraud is rampant, but why over something that isn't supposed to be region sensitive as I have been told?

Next step: call my bank to figure out if they're the problem now. I call them and I ask them about any attempted transactions on the card that were auto-declined when they tried to authenticate. They had no such logs. Not from NCSoft. Not from anywhere.

So, I go back to the strange support hours phone line again to try and get more answers to this and to ask why Paypal is not an option within my region. The answers I get from both are less than satisfactory. I don't blame the person at the phone, but clearly there is some poor communication about certain things. I ask her about the cards being declined (again), and she tells me that the bank had declined them. Of course, I told her what the bank had told me. In addition, when I said I couldn't select Paypal for the transaction, she said I should have been able to. The result was my issue being transferred via ticket to an NCSoft Billing Support Representative to further investigate the issue with the cards as well as my issue with Paypal and the European versions of game content.

In less than an hour later, I get a response: my purchase attempts are not only blocked by NCSoft, but ALSO by my credit card service provider. The solution: "attempt to purchase through another form of payment" ending by stating there is no other suggestion they can offer.

Well, that's brilliant right there. I can't use another option if I don't have another option to begin with. And since all of the purchases of Going Rogue in Europe are only digital (since there are no boxed copies), I'm left with no other option than to toss in the towel and say "Well, there goes a good amount of time wasted."

So, EU community, NCSoft reps, allow me to say in full sincerity in the best of terms I can convey over the internet in the most concise but effective way possible:

I am sad face

While EU players have little trouble in coming over to the US servers (from what I can tell. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), it seems it is the direct opposite for a US player to fully participate in all purchasable content on the EU servers. Granted, the obvious question here is "Why in Sam Hill would you WANT to do that?", but my answer is "Because I have good friends I want to enjoy the game with, and I don't want to have the whole lot of them drop from a community they have a large attatchment to just to play with me." I didn't have (as much) of a connection with the communities on Virtue and Freedom. Mention my name and what I played, you'll probably get an "Oh, that guy. Huh." from a few people, but that's about it. I didn't really have much of a reputation to sacrifice, myself.

Look, tonight was the soft release of Going Rogue. My friends (and I'm guessing a good chunk of Union as well) were shocked and esctatic at seeing the server being in the yellow (at 2AM British Standard Time no less) for the first time in a very, very long time. So, I thought I'd give it one last shot, and that's when I realized: I wouldn't be able to get Going Rogue in any possible way outside of a certain contest (Yes, I did enter it. No, I'm not showing my submission).

My only payment options for getting that key are via credit card, which are immediately rejected due to suspected fraud which does not exist.

So, good people on the EU servers and to NCSoft support..I can officially see why some of the general community wanted to name the SG affiliated with Europe United "The Shafted". Because, ladies and gents, that's exactly how I feel right now.

Did you try paying with a different credit card than the one you've been paying your US account with?

That was sad reading.
You've done what you could to join us via the right channels. Only thing I can add is maybe send a tell to Avatea or Mod8.
Even if this is not up their alley, maybe they can get you another way to tell the Billing department that "This is not a fraud, i've paid Ncsoft NA side with this since 2008, could you please allow this card to pay for Eu service?"...

I hope you get to play with your friends, have fun get that sad face turned into a smile.
*crosses fingers*

Few remarks that i have experienced throughout my US/EU adventure:
All keys are region bound, i have used over 20 different keys to packs, upgrades, thingie and sortlike, all only useable to either US or EU (aka, region sensitive).
So this part:
[quote]Now, I remember what that support guy said to me about serials not being region sensitive[/]
is false, they are sensative.

I can use paypal on both my US and my EU account, this might be due my paypal account being international verified and yours maybe a US only? (few years ago they changed to region-locked accounts, only by filling in a bunch of forms you could make it international again).

I am uncertain if they digital boxes of Going Rogue only can be purchased within a active account (you can directly upgrade), or you get a seperate serial key wich you can give to others. As i'm not going to buy Going Rogue for now, i have no way to test this.

Your escape would be someone buying GR for you (digital), and pass you the key to upgrade your account. Provided you get a serial key, and not the 'select your account to upgrade'.

Edit, and another FACEPALM for EU support:
Please select the City of Heroes® account you would like to apply this upgrade to.
City of Heroes® (Europe) / City of Villains® (Europe)

Seems in no way you can obtain a 'normal serial key' from they NCstore, only can upgrade your existing accounts fromout the NCSoft account you are logged in. Are there any other stores outside the NCstore that sells the Going Rogue? If not, this would imply you cant even give Going Rogue as present to your friends? (my friend birthday in a month).

The only thing i can think of, creditcards has a limit on the Store to be used, i believe after 2 or 3 payements it will be auto-flagged as 'possible fraud'.

This is an out rage...i demand justice of the highest order NOW.!!!

There are no words for this... really there aren't.

An MMO its life-line is being able to be paid. And always purchasable. This is the most important bug/restriction in the game... ever! And is solely responsable for a huge amound of subs gone.

REPAIR/FIX/TEST THIS!

I am a UK player on US servers. I have had payments bounced as 'fraud protection' from my bank not NCSoft because I was buying in USD not GBP.*

I questioned the serial codes regions and got this via PM:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatea Hi, actually what I told you was right for Booster packs. You can buy either from the US or the EU site and once you chose which account to apply the code to, you will be able to chose either your US or your EU account. The system automatically recognises what territory it is and assigns the right code to the account. It also works this way for the Going Rogue prepurchase item. I hope I've clarified things a little for you Good night to you, Avatea

So .... Ummm. Everything in this thread says 'region specific' (as does my common sense because the purchases say (Europe) next to them. The PM says it isn't.*I'm not risking it.

I feel for people like the OP and those in South America who are utterly stuffed.

The worst part about this and NC Softs STUPID billing system, is that it's impossible to buy a serial code for someone else, too; so you can't even send the money to a friend in the UK and get them to buy it for you.

The whole situation is moronic, and NEEDS to be fixed.

How about Steam? CoH is on Steam, is the GR expansion on there?

EDIT: I think your only option is finding someone in the UK you trust enough with your PlayNC account details to do it for you, and you send them the cash. That's a whole lot of trust though...

It's times like this I honestly wonder why the EU forums are under the tile of "For Fun!".

All I can do is wish you luck mate, and hopefuly see you over here one day.

I'm impressed the responses I've been getting, as well as the suggestions. I will definitely be directing the attention of those mods to this thread. Perhaps something can be worked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_HR This is an out rage...i demand justice of the highest order NOW.!!!

At this point, I could care less for justice. That's pointless. Just let me get what I want to pay for, and I'll be happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU Few remarks that i have experienced throughout my US/EU adventure: All keys are region bound, i have used over 20 different keys to packs, upgrades, thingie and sortlike, all only useable to either US or EU (aka, region sensitive). So this part: Quote: Now, I remember what that support guy said to me about serials not being region sensitive is false, they are sensative. I can use paypal on both my US and my EU account, this might be due my paypal account being international verified and yours maybe a US only? (few years ago they changed to region-locked accounts, only by filling in a bunch of forms you could make it international again). I am uncertain if they digital boxes of Going Rogue only can be purchased within a active account (you can directly upgrade), or you get a seperate serial key wich you can give to others. As i'm not going to buy Going Rogue for now, i have no way to test this. Your escape would be someone buying GR for you (digital), and pass you the key to upgrade your account. Provided you get a serial key, and not the 'select your account to upgrade'. Edit, and another FACEPALM for EU support: Please select the City of Heroes® account you would like to apply this upgrade to. City of Heroes® (Europe) / City of Villains® (Europe) Seems in no way you can obtain a 'normal serial key' from they NCstore, only can upgrade your existing accounts fromout the NCSoft account you are logged in. Are there any other stores outside the NCstore that sells the Going Rogue? If not, this would imply you cant even give Going Rogue as present to your friends? (my friend birthday in a month). The only thing i can think of, creditcards has a limit on the Store to be used, i believe after 2 or 3 payements it will be auto-flagged as 'possible fraud'.

I actually did try this with a friend of mine. Did it with a copy of GvE edition for Europe. He attempted to buy this through the NCStore, and he was not able to give me that serial to use. All he got as a serial was: XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-UTSF (those last four being the only thing visible).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Bathory There are no words for this... really there aren't. An MMO its life-line is being able to be paid. And always purchasable. This is the most important bug/restriction in the game... ever! And is solely responsable for a huge amound of subs gone. REPAIR/FIX/TEST THIS!

I'm not exactly sure that this is the case of a LOT of subscriptions, but I wouldn't place doubts in me being the only one. I agree with you on this. It seems though that these "fraud suspicions" are a way to avoid a lot of potential encounters with banks involving overseas transactions and other things. It's possible, then, that the cost of dealing with conflicts like that outweighs the amount of money from players playing the game overseas.

From a business standpoint, this makes perfect and logical sense. From a customer service standpoint, on the other hand...not so much.

I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand some of the logic that this entails, should it exist. If there isn't a reasonable explanation like that, then the picture I'm getting of NCSoft's support is the cage fighting area of Portal D with them being the monkeys jumping around and fighting each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA I'm in the same boat, I'm fairly sure Avatea is wrong in the PM in this instance, maybe she's not. Either way I don't particularly want to be chasing a Ticket for 2 days to get it resolved if she is. Things like Boosters used to be region locked a few weeks ago anyway, if they changed how it works for Boosters and Expansions they never bothered posting / explaining about it AFAIK, hence everyones confusion and relucatance.

Now THAT is absolute fail if this is a recent change (which it seems like it is, because I remember being able to get the serial and applying it manually). Again, from a business standpoint, I can potentially see this make sense, but that still doesn't change the fact that the whole situation is rubbish...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan The worst part about this and NC Softs STUPID billing system, is that it's impossible to buy a serial code for someone else, too; so you can't even send the money to a friend in the UK and get them to buy it for you. The whole situation is moronic, and NEEDS to be fixed. How about Steam? CoH is on Steam, is the GR expansion on there? EDIT: I think your only option is finding someone in the UK you trust enough with your PlayNC account details to do it for you, and you send them the cash. That's a whole lot of trust though...

I wish I could do that, but I was told specifically NOT to, because they logged both my attempts to use a UK proxy to activate MY paypal (which ultimately failed) and my friend logging into my account and attempting to pay with HIS paypal while HE was in the UK (which also failed).

Basically, I was told to cease and desist, or my account would be permanently locked. Again, understandable. I was going out of the lines. I admit that. But that still doesn't change the fact that...hmm...what's a good extended metaphor for this...

OH! As it stands, I'm in front of a vending machine with nearly every single item dangling from the poorly designed machinery inside. I've tried shaking the machine to get the stuff out (since I did pay for all of it once already), and the police threatened to arrest me for doing so. Fine, so I'm trying to use my money, and spontaneously, it says that my money is no longer any good, despite all the types of machines and methods I have to pay for it. So, I have my friend try to purchase something for me. It actually accepts his money, the item drops from the machine, and he tries to give it to me. ...only to realize that the item he got is now stuck to his hand with no possible way to give it to me.

As for what I wish I could do about the machine...

http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/11362...jpg?1251174853

Not sure why you're telling me what a serial code is. I buy a booster/time card/GR/City of X game and I get a code. I am perfectly aware of that.

As far as I can see - and experiences in this thread - that code is region specific. An item bought on the USA part of the NCSoft store can only be applied to the USA account. (Vice versa in the OPs case.)

Now Avatea is contradicting that and this was the end of a long PM exchange, where I made certain she understood what I meant about buying from outside the US from the UK part of the site (EG not in $ but in £) to apply to the US account. I even mentioned that if these items are cross-region it should say so on the website and not put "(Europe)" or "USA version available" on there. She agreed and said she'd ask the web people to change that.

If that is the case then it would make life a lot easier, because NCSoft automatically picks your location from your IP rather than let you choose the region. I have to jump through hoops every time there is a booster. But I don't fancy having to email/phone support to sort out a code issue because I strongly suspect they'll tell me "well you shouldn't have bought it from the EU section - user error, not our fault".

At the very least, it's really poor marketing/customer service to have to make people jump through hoops. Unless they're trying to drive their EU players away (irrespective of which server they play on) because there isn't even a box version to buy on the shelf over here. My options are online or wait and pay extra to have a box shipped from Amazon.com or something.


EDIT:
That PM I posted was approx 24th June 2010.

Never, in all the foreign purchases I've made online, for game subscriptions and many other things, EVER, have I come across a payment system as stupidly restrictive as NC Softs. It's been complained about time and time again from the EU side for YEARS, and still they do nothing to even attempt to make it easier.

Never before have I seen any company anywhere make it so damned hard to to give them money.

My experience is a bit shorter since I couldn't bother to take it so far but it can also prove that the fraud suspicion system NCsoft is using it is a bit weird. I'm Greek currently living in the UK and playing in the EU servers. When I decided to actually renew the time in the game (some time ago) I wanted to use my Greek credit card but guess what I can't since I'm not in Greece and I got the same Fraud suspicion message. Same with packs (when I tried to get the magic pack). My problem is solved since I do have a UK bank account but I don't like the fact that I don't have the freedom to choose which one I want to use.

The most funny thing of all is the fact that once I've been in Greece and bought game time with my greek card and left the details in I can keep getting time with it as long as I don't remove it!

Really sad story and proof yet again that NC really doesn't look further than the USA for its customers.

OP I'd suggest trying to get hold of the EU support team: Whatever else NCSoft gets wrong, those guys are flippin' fantastic and if there is a ways to help you they will do it!

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

I would just love to know who they think is going to bother buying stuff with a nicked card, who are they going to sell it to.

I thought I would add an appropriate caption to the previous image.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...otAmused-1.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker Really sad story and proof yet again that NC really doesn't look further than the USA for its customers. OP I'd suggest trying to get hold of the EU support team: Whatever else NCSoft gets wrong, those guys are flippin' fantastic and if there is a ways to help you they will do it!

Going to send a ticket to them with every identifying bit of info with this post as my explanation/support request.

**EDIT: Support Request sent. For those of you who care: the reference number is 100817-002870.**

This thread is shameful to read. I have no technical expertise in these things so I cannot suggest anything that you haven't tried already. I can only hope that what remains of the EU support team can help you out. Please keep us updated on this situation as we're all waiting to welcome you into the ranks of The Shafted.

There are many things I want NCSoft to sort out when it comes to its EU customers but stopping turning them away would definitely be high up on the list of priorities.

I really hope they get things sorted for you.