New Shield Charge
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-08-11 20:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Yes it matters.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
2) Yes, but does it really matter that much? It's an outlier situation and Lightning Rod falls into the same trap. At least Shield Charge is an armour set so it's somewhat less "wrong" than LR given that Tanks are meant to be Armour specialists.
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400% is not too great a +damage bonus and on teams that can happen fairly frequently.
It's irrelevant that it's in an armor set, because we are discussing damage.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Shields have always been slightly less awesome on Brutes than Tanks or Scrappers for various reasons. Some proliferated sets suit one AT over another. Tis the nature of the beast.
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Something I feel is completely fair, considering the Tanker's massive advantages in +def numbers (easier to softcap) from powers, higher base HP, higher HP cap and higher native resistances.
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I'm glad Castle kept it at 90s it was originally going to be put at 150 seconds with a higher amount of damage.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ This.
The change was needed, IMO. At least they kept the recharge the same. Shield is still an excellent set. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Yes, keeping it synchronized with Build Up's recharge is important to me. Seriously, if they recharged at very different rates, I'd have a much harder time deciding when to use either one. Both together kind of makes up my mind for me. |
Originally Posted by Santorican
I'm glad Castle kept it at 90s it was originally going to be put at 150 seconds with a higher amount of damage.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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If they adjust these sets, I'd much rather see them adjusted in a way that actually decreases the damage before seeing changes that muck up the flow of power usage and the rhythms of playing a character. Sounds to me like the chief effect will be to require it to be targeted with a bit more care. It will still make a good alpha and attention grabber. Good enough for me.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
This change does not sadden me at all.
The Damage is still great and the fact that you even get a damage dealing power in a defense set is soooo nice. |
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
And it STILL makes blaster nukes look like crap in comparison.
Doesn't crash your end bar, and you can use it FOUR times for every ONE time the blaster gets to nuke.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Have to be honest I'm happy. It now makes it easier to spam it. I don't have to go crazy looking for high end IO's to get recharge down. Now I can use a cheap build and cover all the defenses and just spam the 2 aoe attacks.
Yea I will do less damage then before, but I can do it more often now. As long as I have the defenses it don't matter how many times I need to spam it now to kill a bunch of mobs.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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That's why brutes run full speed from one spawn to the next. Not a penalty if you don't let your fury drain away. Working as intended.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I still have a few problems with this.
1) Brutes get penalized on damage using it as an alpha strike/spawn breaker when they have no Fury vs a Tanker. |
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Unless you were beta testing, you can do it exactly as often as you could before.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
Yea I will do less damage then before, but I can do it more often now.
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Obviously the devs should put fake stuff along this lines in the patch notes every issue just to keep people who don't check values happy.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
Unless you were beta testing, you can do it exactly as often as you could before.
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"Lowered recharge on Adrenalin Boost from 10 decades to 300 seconds."
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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YES ! I am on board with that. I cannot stand powers that crash your blue bar.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Maybe its time Blaster nukes are reevaluated then.
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End drain of some amount is fine, heck make the nukes COST 50 end, but to heck with "crashes" !
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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The crashing nukes are kinda lackluster by comparison to things like Shield Charge/Lightning Rod/Rain of Arrows. On the other hand, if every Blaster, Defender, and Corruptor ended up getting access to a crashless nuke like that... well, teams would get a little silly. I already end up getting bored to tears when I'm teamed with a few Shield Charge-spammers (in its current Live version,) since 90% of any given spawn evaporates in the first two seconds of a fight. Crashless nukes are nice powers when there's one or two of them on the team, but it just gets ridiculous with much more than that.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Maybe its time Blaster nukes are reevaluated then.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Agreed. But IF this were to ever happen (highly doubtful), I am sure the damage would be adjusted downward and/or the recharge made "unenhaceable". |
Originally Posted by Kelenar
The crashing nukes are kinda lackluster by comparison to things like Shield Charge/Lightning Rod/Rain of Arrows. On the other hand, if every Blaster, Defender, and Corruptor ended up getting access to a crashless nuke like that... well, teams would get a little silly. I already end up getting bored to tears when I'm teamed with a few Shield Charge-spammers (in its current Live version,) since 90% of any given spawn evaporates in the first two seconds of a fight. Crashless nukes are nice powers when there's one or two of them on the team, but it just gets ridiculous with much more than that.
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BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Ugh, God I hope not. Stalkers with Shield Defense would be ugly.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
still reeks of awesome. Now if we can just let stalkers get their stealthy mitts on it we can crit it out of hide
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
let Shield Charge not break Hide, then use Fireball >.>
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One the one hand im thinking 'To Hell with that!' Because I like being able to slot Nukes for recharge while doing insane damage. I hate, HATE powers with unenhanceable recharge. Its like 'Whats the damn point in giving me this and balancing the set around it, if the damn thing is only up so much of the time?' Im looking at WPs semi godmode, mostly. Sure, it doesnt crash so hard as, say, Unstoppable. But at least I can slot Unstoppable so that, should I happen to need it again sharply, I can use it.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Agreed. But IF this were to ever happen (highly doubtful), I am sure the damage would be adjusted downward and/or the recharge made "unenhaceable".
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On the other hand...we have Rain of Arrows. Now, yes, sets arent balanced against each other, only internally. Even so, RoA is in a decent AoE and ST set, which then crowns it off with a crashless nuke. Because thats what it is. Not Full Autos 'Viscious Cone' as I call it, but a full on large AoE 'Stand in this and your dead' nuke.
While I love high damage, there CAN be too much of it, in a way. I mean, with Build up and Aim its possible to put a vanilla slotted Fire Blasters Inferno into the 1000 damage figures. Does any basic mob even have that much HP? That leaves the minions as piles of ash, the LTs dead or very nearly, and only the Bosses left as any threat. Oh, and you have no End. And its on a large recharge.
While Rain of Arrows...can do just that, without end crash, and on a fiendishly quick recharge, usable nearly every spawn.
So....thats even? Uhm....riiight. Sure.
Hmn.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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How does that argument even work? The 'hiding behind a shield' is a dumb idea?|
Originally Posted by Novella
Ugh, God I hope not. Stalkers with Shield Defense would be ugly.
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Well how does it not look ugly on a Brute who should simply be whacking everything with it? Or a scrapper who'd probably just throw it and leave it embedded in a lowlie minion?
By that argument, only Tankers should have Shield Defense because it only makes sense that someone who puts defense over offense to carry a shield.
Yeah, your argument makes no sense.
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Nooooo 300 is a much bigger number than 10!!!!!!!!!!!It must be worse!!!
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Obviously the devs should put fake stuff along this lines in the patch notes every issue just to keep people who don't check values happy.
"Lowered recharge on Adrenalin Boost from 10 decades to 300 seconds." |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Yep, lots of things that are debateable on this subject.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
One the one hand im thinking 'To Hell with that!' Because I like being able to slot Nukes for recharge while doing insane damage. I hate, HATE powers with unenhanceable recharge. Its like 'Whats the damn point in giving me this and balancing the set around it, if the damn thing is only up so much of the time?' Im looking at WPs semi godmode, mostly. Sure, it doesnt crash so hard as, say, Unstoppable. But at least I can slot Unstoppable so that, should I happen to need it again sharply, I can use it.
On the other hand...we have Rain of Arrows. Now, yes, sets arent balanced against each other, only internally. Even so, RoA is in a decent AoE and ST set, which then crowns it off with a crashless nuke. Because thats what it is. Not Full Autos 'Viscious Cone' as I call it, but a full on large AoE 'Stand in this and your dead' nuke. While I love high damage, there CAN be too much of it, in a way. I mean, with Build up and Aim its possible to put a vanilla slotted Fire Blasters Inferno into the 1000 damage figures. Does any basic mob even have that much HP? That leaves the minions as piles of ash, the LTs dead or very nearly, and only the Bosses left as any threat. Oh, and you have no End. And its on a large recharge. While Rain of Arrows...can do just that, without end crash, and on a fiendishly quick recharge, usable nearly every spawn. So....thats even? Uhm....riiight. Sure. Hmn. |
I only mentioned "unenhanceable" as one of the possible ways they would choose to balance a "crashless" nuke. Its definitely not the choice I would want.
If they were to make the nukes "crashless" and keep the damage the same, they would need to do something to the recharge so it doesnt become part of a regular battle.
or... If they left the recharge the same and made them "crashless", the damage would have to be reduced.
Of the two choices, I personally would prefer the reduction of damage and retaining the ability to slot the power however you see fit.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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im kinda curious, what is the almost to which you're refering?
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Originally Posted by macskull
You do realize that almost nothing in this game takes any skill, right?
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I would say Master of Runs. But with how buff's and debuffs work.
So a Mo Run that isn't almost entirely Buff/Debuffers.
SC needed this, for sure. I'm glad they lowered the damage instead of killing the recahrge (and lowering the damage). Killing the recharge would totally change the feel of two of my favorite characters. At least I don't have to make any gameplay or build changes to compensate.
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99% of the game?
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
im kinda curious, what is the almost to which you're refering?
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Incidentally, regarding making Blaster nukes crashless, it seems to work fine on Fortunatas. Psychic Wail is a full scale nuke (albeit on a Fort's damage scalar) with no crash. It's very much a "use whenever it's up" power, but unless you've got ridculous amounts of +rech, then it's not up often enough to make it truly unblanced IMO.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog