So. What's the word on Fiery Aura and Shields?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-08-10 14:09 in Scrappers
Quote:
The Dominator version of FE did not change.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Nope.
The dom version of FE didn't get the change either. |
However, Burn and Consume on blasters did both get the same changes as their Fiery Aura counterparts.
Burn's initial tick of damage appears to be auto-hit, which has to be a mistake and the initial tick of damage also affects yourself. This was tested on the blaster version.
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Patch notes said 5' I have not tested the exact radius but the major damage is in the smaller area may have to give it another spin and see if i can tell if it is 5 or 7
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Wasn't the 5' radius set due to melee range? Shouldn't it be 7' now?
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The original design called for it to be 3' (ie: single target) but with the way collision capsules work, it needed to be increased slightly.
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Originally Posted by Hejtmane
Patch notes said 5' I have not tested the exact radius but the major damage is in the smaller area may have to give it another spin and see if i can tell if it is 5 or 7
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Cursory examination says all primary, secondary, and epic/ancillary attacks seem to have the fiery embrace damage component added. Pool attacks don't have it, and cannot be boosted by Fiery Embrace.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Pretty sure I read in a patch note that you changed it to work on all powers because it was causing issues.
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Its not a question of changing FE to work with all attacks: all attacks intended to work with FE must be individually changed to do so.
Someone should really do an extensive cross-check to make sure everything that is supposed to actually has the FE attribmods with the correct scale damage.
Sigh...
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Yup, makes the longish recharge feel not quite so long. I'd like lower recharge on it, but I'll take this if I can't get it. |
Originally Posted by Silverado
It means you'll stay at full end 15 seconds longer, and only start losing end after that
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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Out of curiosity, solo + self buffing (any) what kind of damage does SC do vs. a typical spawn now?
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Damage lowered to just ridiculous instead of frikken stupid on Shield Charge.
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I was hoping for FA to get some KB protection and a bit more of a radical burn change, but I tend to have an creative imagination for how powers could be changed. What's the target cap on burn? 10 foes now or still 5?
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Shield Charge for my Dark/Shield with full SD and AAo does about 500pts of damage to about 75% of a x8 +1 spawn of council and about 300ish to the rest.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Out of curiosity, solo + self buffing (any) what kind of damage does SC do vs. a typical spawn now?
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
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This is a screenshot I took in Beta with saturated AAO: 419 + 173 or 592 at 5' point of impact; 419 at 20' against even cons.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Out of curiosity, solo + self buffing (any) what kind of damage does SC do vs. a typical spawn now?
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Comparing it on live now: 789 total damage against even cons.
Mmm...
The changes to fiery aura are a great step in the right direction in bringing the fire tank back into the mainstream as opposed to the closet...
There are two critical short falls fiery aura has at this moment that makes a fire tank suspect:
1. No Knock Back Protection
2. No Toggle based Immobilization Protection
Burn has been improved from a "scarecrow" power back to an attack power, that is excellent, it helps the fire tanker with their mission to hold aggroe for the team.
Burn atm provides very time limited immobilization protection, I have found myself often in a span immob situation, and frankly burn just don't cut it, the immob break free seems to only work within the field of fire, and as soon as I step out of the fire I can be immobilized again; this effect seriously questions my ability to move against mobs attacking my fellow team mates and getting my taunt in range to help the belaguered Defender...
While Knockback protection should really be a standard, I can live with this short fall, because I can buy IOs to help with it, the cost of them is painful, but one can a gal do?
But the immobilization is a real problem in allowing me to perform my mission as a tank in my group, and there ar no IOs to protect me from it,besides making the time I am stuck shorter; which is of little solace to the Defender getting two shot killed, because I failed at my job as an aggroe magnet.
I would love to see were Fire Aura would give me KBP MAG 12, and Plasma Aura give me Immob mag 12 resistance.
Stormy
Ps: I want my Fire tank to be a real tank
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You know, Combat Jumping can fix the immobilization problem.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Mmm...
The changes to fiery aura are a great step in the right direction in bringing the fire tank back into the mainstream as opposed to the closet... There are two critical short falls fiery aura has at this moment that makes a fire tank suspect: 1. No Knock Back Protection 2. No Toggle based Immobilization Protection Burn has been improved from a "scarecrow" power back to an attack power, that is excellent, it helps the fire tanker with their mission to hold aggroe for the team. Burn atm provides very time limited immobilization protection, I have found myself often in a span immob situation, and frankly burn just don't cut it, the immob break free seems to only work within the field of fire, and as soon as I step out of the fire I can be immobilized again; this effect seriously questions my ability to move against mobs attacking my fellow team mates and getting my taunt in range to help the belaguered Defender... While Knockback protection should really be a standard, I can live with this short fall, because I can buy IOs to help with it, the cost of them is painful, but one can a gal do? But the immobilization is a real problem in allowing me to perform my mission as a tank in my group, and there ar no IOs to protect me from it,besides making the time I am stuck shorter; which is of little solace to the Defender getting two shot killed, because I failed at my job as an aggroe magnet. I would love to see were Fire Aura would give me KBP MAG 12, and Plasma Aura give me Immob mag 12 resistance. Stormy Ps: I want my Fire tank to be a real tank |
Of course, I just use burn and teleport on my fire armor scrapper, and it kludges well enough for me.
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If the immob prot only works for you in the burn patch, I would check with Castle to see if that is working as intended. As for the mag res, it already gives the same res as practiced brawler in the SR set.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
There are two critical short falls fiery aura has at this moment that makes a fire tank suspect:
1. No Knock Back Protection 2. No Toggle based Immobilization Protection Burn has been improved from a "scarecrow" power back to an attack power, that is excellent, it helps the fire tanker with their mission to hold aggroe for the team. Burn atm provides very time limited immobilization protection, I have found myself often in a span immob situation, and frankly burn just don't cut it, the immob break free seems to only work within the field of fire, and as soon as I step out of the fire I can be immobilized again... ...I would love to see were Fire Aura would give me KBP MAG 12, and Plasma Aura give me Immob mag 12 resistance. |
Finally, I gotta say, with the +fear removed from burn, I will be spaming that **** like the good old days, never having to worry about being immob'd in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Shield Charge for my Dark/Shield with full SD and AAo does about 500pts of damage to about 75% of a x8 +1 spawn of council and about 300ish to the rest.
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
This is a screenshot I took in Beta with saturated AAO: 419 + 173 or 592 at 5' point of impact; 419 at 20' against even cons.
Comparing it on live now: 789 total damage against even cons. |
Interesting, thanks for the numbers guys.
Does anyone have numbers for Tankers? I'm curious to see where the 3 different shield charges stand now.
On test I was getting, I think, 260~280 or so per shield charge on my Brute with about 75% Fury, AAO & Rage vs. even con Cims on the wall.
I've had several Fire Tankers reply on Burn for immob protection. It's never limited me to the patch; and Burn recharges waaaay before the immob protection expires, so it's easy to stack it. About the only limitation has been that it sometimes requires me to light off Burn in positions where I can't use it offensively.
I do still get immobilized through Burn's protection when there are a large number of immobilizes aimed at me that overpower the protection. Could that be what you're seeing?
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It's still at 5. I'd say the most creative change (and in a short period) was to Fiery Embrace, and I like that a lot. Burn having front loaded damage is also better than it used to be, to my mind. I kind of wanted it to work more like another AOE, rather than a patch still, but it'll work.|
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I was hoping for FA to get some KB protection and a bit more of a radical burn change, but I tend to have an creative imagination for how powers could be changed. What's the target cap on burn? 10 foes now or still 5?
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My biggest worry is how to fit it back in my already tight build.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Mmm, gonna have to run my tanker thru some malta again or Cot and see what is happening, my observation has been I get glued/immob, engage burn, run towards my acosted team mates from the ambush, only to be immobilized just as I departed the area in fire; thus I deduced the immob protection was restricted to the area in fire and mainly burn was an immob break free of sorts. It could be, that the mag resistance to immob thru burn is pretty low and it can be easily defeated, something I have never checked to see what the immob mag resistance of burn is.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I've had several Fire Tankers reply on Burn for immob protection. It's never limited me to the patch; and Burn recharges waaaay before the immob protection expires, so it's easy to stack it. About the only limitation has been that it sometimes requires me to light off Burn in positions where I can't use it offensively.
I do still get immobilized through Burn's protection when there are a large number of immobilizes aimed at me that overpower the protection. Could that be what you're seeing? |
While combat jumping provides some protection to immob, I do not believe a power set shortfall should force a player into a specific travel power, using the super jump power pool is at best a band-aid to a systematic problem. I concede to a min-maxer going the super jump route is a logical thing to do and is no big thing; but as a role player or character concept player, super jump is seldom a reasonable power to select, despite it is a great travel power, after all I would have a hard time coming to terms with many of the Marvel or DC lady heroes going around jumping like the Hulk. giggles, imagine Ms. Marvel or the new Wonder Woman hoping around...
In some ways I do subscribe that a tank's team mission is to go and get the aggroe, so other team mates can do their thing efficiently. In order for that to happen, it has been the common wisdom that tankers need extraordinary protections to damage and status effects; which is true with the great majority of the tanker power sets. Furthermore, I would also subscribe that all tanker protection sets should provide the same generic potection categories with a few intensity of protection variations, such an EM armor should do a better job of protecting against EM based attacks at a price of not so good protection versus lethal, while a Fire Tank is well protected versus fire but the gain in offset with less smash... But in all cases the tankers need their hold, sleep, stun, immobilize, knockdown protections to do their basic jobs as their core base powers; despite that other power pools may provide weaker versions of the protection other tanker sets get as a standard.
Stormy
Front loaded AND no fear component? I'm worried the Burn changes are too much and we'll see a reversion shortly. I might even take it on blasters now.
My issue with FA was always that it was tied too tightly to the Leaping set.
* No immobilization protect, making Combat Jumping mandatory.
* Need to stand on the ground to Burn, making flight useless.
I am also a bit worried about the Shield set. I've seen many, many shield tanks and scrappers get chewed up, and their saving grace was the damage - including Shield Charge. Scrappers are better off than tanks and brutes because they benefit more from the damage buff, but shield has a pretty strong aggro aura that often kill them. Tanks and brutes with shield seem quite weak defensively.
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We'll see. A lot of time was spent tweaking the Burn numbers (and fixing its bugs) in the CB, until it was just right. This change has the potential to make it the power that was (mostly) skipped to a set defining power that the whole family can enjoy!
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Originally Posted by Starfox_EU
Front loaded AND no fear component? I'm worried the Burn changes are too much and we'll see a reversion shortly. I might even take it on blasters now.
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Considering Shield Charge, which this was probably balanced against, it should be good. FA and Shield are both "offensive" defense sets.
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Not on my Fire/Fire/Blaze Scrapper.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Pretty sure it was changed to apply to ancillary powers...
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Kosmos
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Quote:
Have fun. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Cursory examination says all primary, secondary, and epic/ancillary attacks seem to have the fiery embrace damage component added. Pool attacks don't have it, and cannot be boosted by Fiery Embrace.
Its not a question of changing FE to work with all attacks: all attacks intended to work with FE must be individually changed to do so. Someone should really do an extensive cross-check to make sure everything that is supposed to actually has the FE attribmods with the correct scale damage. Sigh... |
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
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Happy dance for the FA changes!!! Middle finger for the Shield changes! j/k... j/k... I know Shield Charge is still uber..... but I still want it to be frickincredibridiculousfantastic!!!!!
In all seriousness though, were there any other changes to /shield? I assume my positional def will not be changing........
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The only change to Shield in I18 is that Shield Charge has gone from "Bugged to completely unreasonable damage levels" to merely "Fantastically effective."
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Originally Posted by Gardo
Happy dance for the FA changes!!! Middle finger for the Shield changes! j/k... j/k... I know Shield Charge is still uber..... but I still want it to be frickincredibridiculousfantastic!!!!!
In all seriousness though, were there any other changes to /shield? I assume my positional def will not be changing........ |
Stages/tiered what ever you want to call it on the damage. 5' radius and 20' radius so we get the splash damage effect (like LR) so at point of impact does more damage and everything outside that 5' radius does less damage
The power is still good just not the mini nuke it is on live now
Wasn't the 5' radius set due to melee range? Shouldn't it be 7' now?