Get rid of critical misses


5th_Player

 

Posted

As the title says - there are few things more annoying than investing heavily into accuracy and still missing one in twenty attacks anyway through no fault of your own. The idea of random fumbles with something you're supposed to excel at might work in D&D, but has no business being in superhero genre.

{note: keep critical hits for both players and NPCs - being able to spec for total defense would be gamebreaking in so many ways}


 

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Critical...misses..? Eh? Never seen them before.
As for the 5% chance to miss even when at major Acc level... I guess it's needed for balance. And it also represents the enemies flailing madly trying to fend of being smushed into little squibbly heaps. Which is fair.

I'd still love some attacks, like Assassins Strike and Sniper rifle to ignore that 5% chance, though. So you can have 'Aimed' attacks that CAN have 100% chance of hitting. I know that'd make Snipe a bit more popular than it is at the moment (I still take it, mind, but it seems to get a lot of hate in the Powers forums)


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While I generally can't stand how finicky people are about the occasional miss, I actually do agree with you. Someone once said that if he were designing a game, players would only ever miss if the enemies had some way of either dodging or blocking their attacks. "Dodged" means the enemy is too fast to hit, so you missed. That's fine. It's how things go. "Miss" only means you suck and you missed. Not as inspiring.

I understand why stat-driven RPGs so often include accuracy as part of their basic structures, but I also fully believe that they don't need to. Heroes of Might and Magic is, basically, a stat-driven RPG, yet creature stacks NEVER miss another creature stack unless it's incorporeal, like Ghosts. You know that if you attack, you always hit and always do damage. It's just a matter of how much, which in turn is a matter of how strong the attacker is vs how strong the defender is.

That's not applicable in this game at this stage, though.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
As for the 5% chance to miss even when at major Acc level... I guess it's needed for balance. And it also represents the enemies flailing madly trying to fend of being smushed into little squibbly heaps. Which is fair.
Which is why you don't have 100% accuracy straight out of the box. But if a hero has trained himself to never miss {at least in normal circumstances}, it's not really fair to deny him that because of a roll of a dice. I mean, you don't see Batman accidentally missing with the Batclaw - a skill has pretty much become second nature.


 

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"Critical miss," to me, means you missed so badly you hit yourself.

I'd love to see that. It would be greatly amusing.

That said, no to "My accuracy is perfect 100% of the time." Even the best person at some skill misses on occasion.


 

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I think this is prohibited by the ToHit clamp of 95% for a reason I can't remember, and not likely to change.

If you won the slot machines 100% of the time, you'd be bored, wouldn't you? I think this factors into risk vs. reward.


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Well done.
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.

 

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I have to agree with Techbot in that there are some attacks which really should have 100% hit chance such as Sniper attacks and Assassin attacks. Dodge is perfectly okay as well as anything else, but when my AR Blaster 'misses' with Sniper Rifle, i can only wonder "Where you actually aiming the entire time you were looking through the scope?" Same goes for Assassin attacks.

A compromise i think, would be to have Sniper/Assassin attacks at about 98% Accuracy when fully buffed/enhanced etc. After all, they are supposed to be accurate attacks and seems rather odd that they would have the same accuracy as most other attacks.


I was doing some playthroughs of City of Heroes. Now they will serve as memories of a better time ...

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
That said, no to "My accuracy is perfect 100% of the time." Even the best person at some skill misses on occasion.
Probably, but usually not on camera unless there's an important plot twist behind it. This is the sort of thing that makes fiction as cool as it is - you can have people be good enough shots that they simply never miss easy targets, regardless of what realism might want to say. Remember, you're trying to bring realism in a game where thrown rocks will chase people around corners and having large metal claws on your hands allows you to throw shurikens.

I dare say that's one break from reality I'd prefer to make, rather than stick to the explanation that everyone misses every now and then. Yeah, maybe they do. But they seem to shoot just fine when they're on-screen being badasses.

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Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade View Post
If you won the slot machines 100% of the time, you'd be bored, wouldn't you? I think this factors into risk vs. reward.
Actually, that's precisely the reason I don't play slot machines. I don't enjoy the element of blind luck factoring into everything. I prefer to win or lose on my own merits, not because my Assassin's Strike decided to miss the Sapper. I don't play games of luck because I don't enjoy them. I much prefer playing games of skill, and there's nothing skilful about having the server roll a random number for me.

It most definitely factors into risk vs. reward, but that's because that's what the game is built on. As I said before - RPGs that disrespect base accuracy calculations exist, and have always existed. Bare accuracy is not an integral part of an RPG, it's just one of the older conventions.

All basic accuracy serves to do is make things ever so slightly less predictable and make events less subject to being calculated ahead of time. However, you can easily do that in any number of different ways with AI variety and behaviour, environmental factors and, hell, even using critical hits instead of accuracy. You don't have to force people to miss easy shots to make a good game, and it's actually disturbing to me that I keep sing the opposite claimed whenever the issue comes up.


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Posted

Yea, let's remove the 5% chance to miss. Then the new softcap to defense will be 50% and my main will never get hit by anything.

I like this plan.

/sarcasm off.

Oh... yall only want this for players and not critters? Yea, I don't see that happening.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

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There's a specific reason I endorse this:

Twilight Grasp.

It really, really, sucks if your heals can miss. And especially if there is NOTHING you can do to prevent it from happening.


 

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I'd really just be happy if they made ranged attacks not miss by a huge amount. It seems like you either always hit dead on or miss by a mile. Why can't attack animations just barely miss?


 

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Originally Posted by seebs View Post
There's a specific reason I endorse this:

Twilight Grasp.

It really, really, sucks if your heals can miss. And especially if there is NOTHING you can do to prevent it from happening.
Twilight's Grasp is an awesome power. Because it has a large radius, has a high heal, and debuffs your enemies. Because of this, it has the ToHit check. If it hit every single time, then it would be over powered. It's a balance issue. The fact that is CAN miss is the point! If you don't want a heal to have a chance to miss, you should look into other power sets.

And there is something you can do to lessen the odds of it missing. Slot for accuracy, and set bonuses that improve your accuracy.


 

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You know? I'd actually like it if the game had critical misses (i.e. you critical miss with your fireball and blow up yourself and allies instead; you aim a transference that, instead, heals the enemy). Would make for a more spicy game.

Incidentally, I think it'd be cool if *everyone* got critical hits (Stalkers, Scrappers, Corruptors, Controllers and VEATs just have another avenue of crits). Maybe even a *critical* critical hit...kind of like how Stalkers have a small chance of double AS, maybe a small chance to deliver a Deathblow despite enemy HP remaining.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Yea, let's remove the 5% chance to miss. Then the new softcap to defense will be 50% and my main will never get hit by anything.
I think you're confusing "hit" and "miss". Reread my original post, please.


 

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sorry. just no. if you want to be able to hit 100% of the time, what are you willing to give up? and your argument of this is a super hero game is lame.


 

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
I think you're confusing "hit" and "miss". Reread my original post, please.
No, I'm not confused at all. If we get to hit all the time, so do they.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Well, if they have high enough an accuracy or our defense is bottomed out, why not?

Let me restate - I do not propose the removal of critical hits. The 5% chance to hit no matter what should remain.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Well, if they have high enough an accuracy or our defense is bottomed out, why not?

Let me restate - I do not propose the removal of critical hits. The 5% chance to hit no matter what should remain.
so, in essence, your asking for nothing to be changed?


 

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I like the idea of AS and Snipes having 100%.

Other than that, the 5% chance to miss should remain, else it unbalances things for both sides to a ridiculous level.


 

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Don't look at it as you missing, look at it as the enemy dodging or deflecting your attack.


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I'd be all for removing the 5% chance to miss when attacking minions. I'd also be for removing their 5% chance to hit.


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Posted

Other games get by with all attacks never missing. So having hyper-accurate well slotted attacks never missing doesn't seem too big a stretch.

Players already have a streakbreaker which NPCs dont get (I think?)

I'd be in favour of dropping the 5% flat miss chance imposed on player attacks altogether. If you have Tactics, global acc bonuses and good slotting, why should you miss a street thug standing in quicksand 1 time out of 20?
Missing a MoG'd Paragon protector or Rikti Drone, or a Force Fielded enemy, sure. But I'm struggling to see what the 5% miss on most player powers really adds to the game other than occasional frustration. Sometimes big frustration, eg a stun attack misses just before a Fake Nem pops his bubble.

The 5% hit chance at the other end of the scale is cool. I've played enough soft-capped characters to understand the thrill of the occasional hit getting through when you're waltzing through a horde of enemies untouched.

Powers like Twilight Grasp do give me thought for pause though. Would they become overpowered if they always hit in normal situations? They'd still have a chance of missing higher defence enemies, so I think not.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMike2000 View Post
Other games get by with all attacks never missing. So having hyper-accurate well slotted attacks never missing doesn't seem too big a stretch.

Players already have a streakbreaker which NPCs dont get (I think?)

I'd be in favour of dropping the 5% flat miss chance imposed on player attacks altogether. If you have Tactics, global acc bonuses and good slotting, why should you miss a street thug standing in quicksand 1 time out of 20?
Missing a MoG'd Paragon protector or Rikti Drone, or a Force Fielded enemy, sure. But I'm struggling to see what the 5% miss on most player powers really adds to the game other than occasional frustration. Sometimes big frustration, eg a stun attack misses just before a Fake Nem pops his bubble.

The 5% hit chance at the other end of the scale is cool. I've played enough soft-capped characters to understand the thrill of the occasional hit getting through when you're waltzing through a horde of enemies untouched.

Powers like Twilight Grasp do give me thought for pause though. Would they become overpowered if they always hit in normal situations? They'd still have a chance of missing higher defence enemies, so I think not.
Because they're super too?


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Who are super? Powers like Twilight Grasp? NPCs?