So... Stalkers.

Any team going up against hard targets would love to have the regeneration debuffs.

I wouldn't mind that suggestion. Wouldn't mind it at all.

The issue of solo vs. team pace is a good one to keep in mind, I think... I have several Stalkers and I've had fun with them in a lot of different situations (I've even taken one of them Mothership-raiding. ), but the way they run as solo toons is a very different beast from the way they typically have to be played on a team.

No team is going to stand around waiting for you to get in position, line up your attack and go through the entire slower-than-Christmas animation cycle before they move in and start busting heads. They just won't.

If you're lucky, you'll almost have enough time to get in there and get a shot off on something before the whole mob's dead. Even doing that much can be difficult, though. I can't begin to count the number of times I've had my Hide broken by AoEs triggered by my team-mates' attacks, or how many times my Assassin's Strikes have been interrupted before the attack could go off due to my Stalker being bumped by another toon or someone's pets or special effects.

Given that, what's left for us to do in a group but scouting the map and pretending to be Scraps? Which, for reasons that have already been mentioned (low HP, etc-) upthread, we're not all good at.

When you're solo, on the other hand, you don't have to worry about impatient team-mates or unexpected interruptions. It's very easy to play your Stalker the way I suspect the devs intended them to be played all along... As very deliberate, very careful stealth hunters. That role, I think, they handle perfectly well as-is. I don't think they need much to be fine on their own.

So, the question as far as I'm concerned is how can Stalkers be made more effective/useful in the context of an average group? What can be done to make their solo hunting style more friendly with grouping? I'd say removing possibility of interruption from AS would be an excellent start. Making the AS animation shorter might also help, since any reduction in "set-up time" equals more of a chance to get the shot off before the team moves in and all hell breaks loose.

I'm very, very wary of any of the suggestions tied to Placate, though. As others have pointed out, even the current, controllable version can get fragile team-mates in trouble. An uncontrolled, random Placate effect would likely result in no one ever letting any of us anywhere near their teams ever again! ...That would sort-of defeat the purpose of making the change, right?

Since today's announcement that we're allowed to discuss beta things here, I sent a PM asking for this thread to be moved to a non-beta section of the boards.

Sure, it's probably run through most of the course anyway, but more eyes couldn't hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

More eyes would probably help out a lot. A number of the individual suggestions have varying merits that could stand to be discussed a bit more. If not moved, I figure the thread could easily be restarted.

Probably better off to restart the thread and summarize the suggestions.

I've finalized my thoughts after playing my Corr/MM with Brute. I've been thinking why Stalkers aren't that productive on a team (besides not having enough AoE in certain sets):

1. In PvE, they gotta reduce the activation time on AS. 4s is way too long and if you add interrupt, a Stalker may spend 4s doing nothing. Of course sets like Spines and Electricity don't need to open with AS on a team but some sets are better with AS opener like Martial Arts. I think the 4s is there to balance Stalker in PvP but Stalker needs some love in PvE. And Spines/Electricity don't get their big aoe until 32 and this is why you see people abandoning stalkers early.


2. Stalker should get critical team buff regardless of "radius". Some said making the radius larger could cause more lags. Then the easier solution is to get rid of "radius" limit. Stalker gets the benefit of critical chance with more party members on the team. Makes sense to me! If the current 30' radius isn't helping Stalker's population, it is safe to assume having no restraint on effective radius won't "ruin" the AT.


3. Balance some of the secondary sets like Dark Armor and Electricity Armor. Dark Armor has two powers that can get stalkers out of hide. Electricity Armor is an average resistant set with NO healing to backup. The "go go go" mentality fits Brute/Scrapper but not Stalker. I've tried that Repel aura in Energy Aura set. It is really not useful on Stalker. Sure, I can knock things back but I am also draining my endurance too fast! A knockback aura on a melee toon just seems... flawed?! It may have a use in pvp? Who knows. I don't think people like Energy Aura much in pvp?

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Let's start with these 3 after GR came out. Pretty please.

No time to read the entire thread (really no time), but I want to weigh in.

Firstly, Scrapper Build Up should be lowered to 80% dambuff to bring it in line with other versions; Blasters should be the only AT that gets a 100% dambuff from Build Up. Sorry, but there is no reason balance-wise, cannon-wise, rp-wise, or jimmeny cricket-wise that Scrappers magically get the 100% buff.

As far as actual Stalkers go:

Electric melee is beautiful as is; Spines is also good. IMO Claws and Dual Blades are both good enough as well, though I miss follow up.
The biggest problem for the rest of the sets, as I see it, is the lack of AoE effectiveness.

-The two sword sets should have their current AoE attack (Flashing Steel and Slice) swapped for the more powerful ones that come later in the Scrapper set (Lotus Drop and Whirling Sword). Getting the more powerful attack earlier than Scrappers is balanced by the fact that you still are only able to get one of the two, but this should increase your overall AoE damage output. The attacks are mostly of the same type and slot the same sets, so no problem there. (Also, while not necessary, I would like to see the sword tier 9's crit-from-hidden chance changed to the single target 100%; these are really single target attacks that happen to have a chance to hit multiple enemies, not true AoE's like Jacob's Ladder or Shadow Maul, and as such they should get the single target crit chance).

-Dark Melee: remove Build Up and give the set a copy of Soul Drain tagged to not break hide (like the changes coming for dark armor) or alert enemies (like World of Confusion's damage ticks). This gives the set back a smidge of AoE (actually almost as much as the Scrapper/Brute version) and some of its uniqueness, while it is not overpowered because you cannot spam Soul Drain. Also makes the set more desirable because you could actually get multiple built up Assassin's Eclipse attacks off during the length of Soul Drain, again not over powered because the damagebuff effect is generally lower than an actual Build Up's.

-Martial Arts and Energy Melee: a set with no AoE is ludicrous in PvE. Both of these sets have a stun attack (minor damage) that should be replaced with the AoE attack in other variants of the set (Dragon's Tail and Whirling Hands respectively). A small chance to disorient could be added to either or both so that no one feels they have lost anything, and to make sure stun sets are still slottable with the addition of PBaoe sets. This would give these powersets the same AoE capabilities as Scrapper and Brute versions, while not really losing anything.

Doing all of that would ameliorate the AoE disparity sufficiently, in my opinion. Otherwise, the problem that Scrappers do more damage is generally balanced now by the scaling crit chance on teams (and we are hopefully changing Build Up's buff as well) which makes Stalkers pull ahead. We are left with the problem of hp cap disparity; you cannot say that the Stalker gimmick of Assassin's strike is the balance here because it is usually just that: a gimmick. In most cases (PvE), you will do more damage by just continuing your single target chain than by stopping to Build Up-->Placate-->AS. So it is consigned to being beneficial only against certain problem enemies. That makes it pretty much the same as a good mez. That Sapper over there? Well I can AS it or the dom can hold it, either way it's no longer a problem, but the Dom takes less time to neutralize it. That is not worth a lower hp cap, especially considering some secondaries lose effectiveness because they so easily go over the cap (looking at you, Energy Aura).

Before, I would have said the hp thing was balanced by the fact that Stalkers got things like Shadow Meld, but now that Scrappers are getting that too I cry foul. Stalkers are about to be simply inferior, and I would pretty much only play one for the exception of a set that is Stalker Electric Melee.

I like the way you think, Siolfir.

Of the other suggestions, AS getting a regen debuff makes some sense to me. The target has just been hit by a precision critical, some effect beyond simple damage seems logical.

Also, what if Placate placed a -Res/-Def debuff on the target? It seems quite within the basic idea of the power that it could 'set up' or distract the target. This would also make it a power worth using in the middle of a big melee or when taking ongoing damage.

I've always liked the idea of Stalkers as opportunists. The idea that not only can the stalker take advantage of opportunities (the crit bonus from nearby teammates) but that they can also create opportunities for their teammates (via debuffs) supports this concept well.

[afterthought] For similar conceptual and practical reasons I'd also be happy with a chance for an AoE confuse linked to AS's 'intimidate' and/or to Placate. "Confuse" seems like the closest game mechanic currently available to get the effect of 'he tried to blast me but hit his buddy instead'.