Should Bosses be taken out first?

Was on a team yesterday and this conversation popped up. Half of us agree that Bosses should be targeted and taken out first while the other half believes that Bosses should be taken out last.

Personally, both arguments make sense. However, I'm leaning toward the "take out Bosses first" side. Of course, this is with exception to groups such as the Malta's and Tsoo's, where Sappers and Sorcerers should probably be targeted and taken down before anything else.

The team I was on were doing radio missions. We're mainly selecting Freakshow's, Trolls, Hellions and Warriors, just to make it easy. We started our first mission and some of us noticed that half of the team was pretty much ignoring Bosses and it was a pain because we had a Scrapper and a Blaster on the team who DID target Bosses first. Sure, we had a Tanker that used his Taunt, but with the damage output that these 2 Scrapper and Blaster were putting out, they easily aggroed the Bosses that they were attacking.

We also had support toons that were using their mezzes and debuffs on everything else but Bosses. Eventually, the question came up: "shouldn't we be targeting Bosses first?" The answer: "no, we take out everything else first so that it's easier to focus on Bosses last." Personally, this was a pretty bad reason in my opinion. In fact, that reason doesn't even make sense to me.

Why focus on Minions and LT's while the Bosses are running around freely two-shotting squishies? Bosses hit for tons and it's much easier to keep someone that's being pounded on by Minions and LT's alive than it is to keep someone alive from the huge burst damage that Bosses are capable of putting out.

What do you guys think? Is the aforementioned reason to take Bosses out last reasonable? Shouldn't Bosses be the focus when fighting "normal" mobs such as these?

AoE to take down minions/lts.
ST to take down Bosses (first) and LTs (secondary).

Each character will have a different mix of AoEs and ST attacks. Take my spines Scrapper... I have 3 cone attacks, 2 ST ranged attacks, and an unslotted ST melee attack. I could focus on the boss first... but why? I do far more damage if I'm focusing on AoE the mob, and not on any specific baddy. On the other hand, take a ST heavy character like a Stalker, which should they focus on? The bosses, and to a lesser extent the Lts.

Not all situations can be handled the same way, but this is the general way of how I play my characters. In practice, it doesn't matter that much what people are doing. This isn't an incredibly hard game, and debt is your friend. Feel free to just play however is the most fun and enjoyable.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

I target bosses because minions/lieutenants melt under AoE, so it's pretty useless to target them...they're dead by the time you fire up your attack. The only times I don't target bosses are a) there ARE no bosses, b) there's a bigger minion/lieutenant threat (Sapper, Rikti Comm officer, etc), or c) my cone/AoE needs better positioning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Depends on the boss and the AT/Powerset I'm playing. Scrappers or brutes who have a damage aura definitely take out bosses first, since the damage aura will usually kill off minions, and seriously hurt LTs.

Blasters generally save bosses for last, since the massed fire of minions can be more dangerous than 1 boss shooting at me.

Well, I think it changes from enemy group to enemy group. Sappers, sorccerers, and other problem mobs do need to go down first. Beyond that, I believe each AT really should focus on something different.

Tanks: While maintaining agro control, focus on bosses.
Scrappers: Bosses/hard target mobs
Blasters(ST): Bosses, then hard target mobs
Blasters(AoE): minion/Lt, maximizing splash damage
Defenders: focus on bosses for debuffs, then target minions/Lt
Controllers: Focus on lockdown of whole groups

Of course this all depends on builds and whatnot. But generally the above is how I approach targeting on teams when I play the above ATs.

Totally depends on the situation and the make-up of the team. If you are on an ITF and you have to defeat 300 Romans, you should ignore all the bosses and focus almost all your fire on minions. If you have a decent radiation defender who goops the bosses, then they are essentially neutered and you can keep them standing to anchor the debuffs. If you are on a team with huge AoE, target the boss and kill everything else with splash damage.

Each situation needs to be evaluated separately, in my opinion.

I usually prefer to take out the minions first while keeping the boss distracted. The boss is the biggest threat, of course but the damage the minions/lts do is not insignificant and can really add up. A lot easier to keep a single target under control than it is an entire group.

This usually doesn't matter unless you're fighting AVs or something of that size that takes a while to bring down. A good team will slice through regular groups like butter usually.

The critters that cause the greatest threat should be dealt with first. This is highly variable: it depends on the enemies, the constitution of the team, and the powersets the team has.

Generally, enemies that provide a multiplier for damage, a large to-hit debuff for the team, a large defense buff for the enemies, healing for the enemies, etc., should be held immediately or taken down first.

These include Malta sappers, Tsoo sorcerers, Longbow Nullifiers, Nerva LTs, Carnie Steel Strongmen, Sky Raider Engineers, etc. These targets should be eliminated quickly. If they are held/defeated before they can initiate their most damaging actions you have a cakewalk instead of a titanic battle.

But exactly what the greatest threat is often depends on the team. If your team consists of scrappers, brutes or tankers Carnie Illusionists can be ignored until everything else is gone. But if the team is all blasters, controllers, defenders, dominators and corruptors, Illusionists should be taken out immediately to prevent area effect holds from hitting the entire team. But if you've got a Force Field defender with Dispersion Bubble on the team, the illusionist suddenly becomes little to no threat.

Bosses tend to be heavy hitters, but they can take a long time to take down. If they pose a grave threat to the team everyone should concentrate on beating them into a pulp immediately. But if they're just a big bag of hit points ineffectively pounding away on a tanker or brute, then it makes more sense to deal with lower-HP targets that are significantly debuffing the team or buffing the enemies.

I usually leave bosses for last because, well, everything else dies faster... and dropping 10 minions is going to mitigate more incoming damage than killing 1 boss, who will (most times) only be attacking 1 person at a time (usually the Tank!... if they're any good.). sure they have some burst damage, but all those minions running around are like a big ol' constant AoE the whole time you're focusing all your efforts on the boss, making it easier for that boss to 1-2 shot you after the minions weaken you up a little.

Put it this way.... When you're fighting an AV, does the whole team sit there and focus solely on the AV, ignoring the minions, lt's and bosses that are lingering around? or do you take out the small fries fast so you can focus on the larger threat? A mob with a Boss(es) is no different IMO, take out the small fries quickly and then deal with the big guy.

*Edited to add:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuceNonagon Each situation needs to be evaluated separately, in my opinion.

This also ^^

Scenario: Security Chief hunt during (Mo)STF.

Best to leave the boss for last, as he will trigger an ambush at 50% health.

There is no hard and fast rule, as it depends widely upon the type of foes and the powersets and playstyles of the character/team. It can also vary with the environment.

On my Illusion Controllers, I generally try to distract the foes with PA, use my debuffs, and then take down minions as fast as possible to maximize benefit of Spectral Damage. If the boss is a problem, I can take him out of the fight before it begins with Deceive.

On my Earth Controllers, I usually send out my AoE controls, and then focus on taking down the Boss who can hurt me the most. The lower foes are too busy to bother me, but the Boss can sometimes smack me around if I don't control him.

It really depends on whether your powersets are focused on AoE or single target, on what kind of defense or defensive-type powers you have, and the nature of the foes. It also depends on the team . . . some tanks are great at drawing Boss aggro, while others are better at AoE aggro. And if the environment allows you to take out minions without aggroing the rest of the group, then take out the minions.

It's all subjective. There is no right answer here because every Archetype works differently.

Personally, I take out minions and LT's first. Why? Because an enemy at 1% life does just as much damage as an enemy at 100% life. While your slowly (or more slowly than killing minions/LTs) taking down the boss, those minions and LTs get more hits on you than you'd expect. These stack up over time and eventually and quite quickly become problematic. So why not kill the easy ones first. Just so they don't get the chance to attack at all?

This is expecially true due to Cascading Failure. Once an enemy hits you with a -def power. Those minions and Lts will start hitting you more often, thus dealing more damage, thus reducing your defense even further. Thats very scary.

I agree with just about everything said, but I want to throw in my 2 Inf.

I have 2 scrappers a 50 katana/regen and a 50 Dark/dark.

Now the Katana/regen takes out the minions first because they tend to do more damage due to numbers (i.e. how many there are), then the boss/Lts.

My Dark/dark on the other hand rounds up the minions (except for sappers, dark ring mistress' and Rikti comm officers (sure there others) and runs for the boss.

Katana/regen mostly single target attacks.

Dark/dark his build up is an AoE, his damage shield and fear are AoEs and his heal and stamina fillers are AoEs.

So as has been stated it all depends on enemy groups, teams, and character powers.

I think it depends entirely on the team. On AOE-centric teams, the minions & Lts will die so fast you will have to target the Bosses to target anything. If the team is into heavy use of toggle debuffs, it's probably best to toggle debuff the Boss and kill him last. Sometimes some minions and Lts are more dangerous than bosses and should be killed first (sappers, mezzers).

It depends a LOT on the character. I tend to favor taking out the minions first because that plays to the strength of the majority of my characters. But in general, here are my thoughts for the ATs I'm really familiar with:

Blaster, Defender, Corruptor: It depends a lot on the set, AoE heavy sets such as Fire, Archery and Assault Rifle are much better off killing the minions and then focusing on the boss. Others that are single target focused or have an AoE mez (generally a sleep) are better served killing the boss. Some which have good single target hard mez capability (like an Ice/Ice Blaster) work best by mezzing the boss and killing the minions first.

Controller: I generally prefer to hold the boss while killing the minions and then finish him off afterwards.

Tanker, Scrapper, Brute: Again somewhat set dependent, I lean towards killing the boss first since that means I get more mileage from my AoEs against the minions (especially on a Tanker) but more AoE heavy sets (especially Shield Scrappers) can AoE the minions to death quickly and easily and then focus on bosses.

Warshade: Depends a bit on the situation but assuming I'm in lobster form boss first so I have more enemies to fuel Mire.

For me, I play with a herd mentality. In my SG, whoever the tank is will round up their aggro cap, bring em to a corner, and then let the AoE fly from our blasters, scrappers, and the tank. Usually, like my Shield/Dark tank, will jump into the middle of everything, hit Soul Drain, Melt Armor, and Shield Charge. The ONLY thing left standing are bosses at half strength, and usually by that point, we've got some sort of Ice Storm, Fireball, Spine Burst, or any number of nukes hitting the point at the same time I shield charge. This means that anything that's over my 10 target AoE cap will STILL get destroyed by AoE. It's just a natural flow, but most of the time, I make sure that I target a boss while they're herding around me, just to make sure that the instant my Shield Charge is done, I'm keeping the aggro of that boss because I don't want him smacking my scrappers or my blasters/defenders trying to nuke.

Even when I'm playing a support toon, I like seeing the mob herded together with the boss trying to hit the tank, because as long as the tank is holding aggro, I can drop any sort of AoE on the mob, along with everyone else on the team. Tsoo? Malta? Doesn't matter to me. Herd, AoE everything to death, then you've only got half-strength bosses that you can finish off with some good ST.