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You won't find me arguing that on Single Origin Enhancements, Dark Armor resembles a hoover vacuum. |
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Ive made and tricked out 3 other scrappers and 4 tanks and for some reason i wanted to try dark armour.
Well now i know its terrible, worst scrapper i ever even tried. No def, the effects are terrible and almost irrelevant on a +2. Team stealth really on a scrapper LOL base like 2.5, -tohit on one aura and its weak versoin, 8 pbaoes toggles and no dmg, Fear, well with fear im surprised its not even half of the spectral terror and this is a toggle too. I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy. -Deleted- |
As a set, it has never really been adjusted from the design days of toggle management, where you would have to pick and choose which armor was right for which encounter. So the endurance costs for running all of the possible toggles together is surpassed only by the stackable toggles on Stone Armor tanks.
As such, to make the most out of the set, you really need to couple it with something that returns a chunk of endurance, meaning the only practical melee set to couple dark with is... dark.
Now, granted, whether or not Dark Armor is just mildly unbalanced or truly AEful depends on how you play. Dark Armor is best in a high-burst damage, get away from the fight scenario.
Again, out of the melee sets, this really only couples well with Dark Melee due to Soul Drain / Midnight Grasp. Run into a middle of a mob, hit Soul Drain, fire Shadow Maul / Smite / Shadow Punch / Dark Regeneration / Dark Consumption / Midnight Grasp, get the heck out of there.
This burst damage / recover / leave enemy's immobilized combat strategy doesn't really work well for two reasons. I hate to harp on it, but you need to take Dark Armor with Dark Melee. Second, the stealth... which isn't a complete stealth.
It didn't really make sense way back when it was introduced, but in today's IO game, shove a +stealth proc on a travel, and you have near complete stealth to enemies. Fine... but what if you only use SO's?
... which...
I mean, I could go on all day about this. I really think Dark on SO's needs to be looked at. If you want Dark Armor to work well on SO's, you are shoe-horned into one melee set.
If you want Dark Armor to work well with just about anything else, you'll be looking at nigh on expensive IO builds.
I feel obligated to say something in this topic.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy. |
lol go back to playing blasters then...
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I do to but I prefer less people playing dark armor to minimize the chance it gets nerfed.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I feel obligated to say something in this topic.
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I'm with Dechs Kaison on this one. Dark Armor Sucks!
OK, yes, fine. It's not the easiest set to build right. It plays "funny". It relies heavily on a heal. It burns through endurance. Still, Claws/Dark should be a decent combination if for no other reason than Claws gets an endurance discount. Plus Follow Up buffs the damage from Death Shroud for extra AoE goodness. There are other good combinations as well, not just Dark/Dark. My Katana/Dark was very solid for leveling. I did use a Steadfast Protection unique and a Kismet unique, and I frankenslotted in the mid 30s, but that's easily affordable on what you earn as you level. No sets required. I think Dark Armor has overtaken Regeneration as my favorite secondary, actually. But hey, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Turns out I hate the Spines primary. I know there's nothing wrong with it, and that people do great things with it, but it just doesn't work for me. It happens.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Originally Posted by Transhade
I do to but I prefer less people playing dark armor to minimize the chance it gets nerfed.
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"This is not the scrapper secondary you seek"<Jedi Mind-trick Hand wave>
I agree, as much as people try to sugar coat this matter, Dark Armor blows.
Anyone that actually made Dark Armor decently good to use can probably put the same time/effort into ANOTHER build and get way better results than they did with Dark Armor.
@Scorpio EU
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There is Defense in Cloak of Darkness, plus it has a damage aura in Death Shroud.| No def... ...8 pbaoes toggles and no dmg, |
Dark Armor can do some disgusting things with the right build, but it's certainly not a set for everyone. The end drain from the toggles isn't so bad; the big end draining fiend is Dark Regeneration, and that can be mitigated with End Redux or, even better, a +End proc from the Theft of Essence set. The first time you pop Dark Regen and gain endurance you'll be sold.
Throw some addition defense on top of everything else and the set really starts to shine. I will admit that I'm not overly impressed with Cloak of Fear, but the -tohit can stack nicely with the +Def from CoD.
Maybe it's not the most powerful armor set numbers wise, but it's a set that provides even levels of mitigation across the board, including to commonly unresisted types like Psi and Toxic, in addition to a phenomenal heal.
Also...
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| I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy. |
I just don't even know where to begin with that.
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Well, there are a few things you said here that reveal you to be clueless. |
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Ive made and tricked out 3 other scrappers and 4 tanks and for some reason i wanted to try dark armour.
Well now i know its terrible, worst scrapper i ever even tried. No def, the effects are terrible and almost irrelevant on a +2. Team stealth really on a scrapper LOL base like 2.5, -tohit on one aura and its weak versoin, 8 pbaoes toggles and no dmg, Fear, well with fear im surprised its not even half of the spectral terror and this is a toggle too. I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy. -Deleted- |
1) No def: This is completely untrue. Cloak of Darkness has the exact same amount of defense as Weave, and it doesn't suppress in combat.
2) Team stealth? Uh, no. It's a personal stealth only, and it gives you defense. It is NOT Shadow Fall like you seem to be thinking.
3) 8 PBAoEs toggles and no dmg: I'm not even entirely sure what you're saying here, but you seem to be saying there's no damage aura? Death Shroud is a damage aura, and a pretty good one at that.
4) Fear, well with fear i'm surprised it's not even half of the spectral terror and this is a toggle too: Of course it's not half of the spectral terror. Spectral Terror is a long recharge immobile pet, it gets a huge amount of fear duration and effectiveness because it is stuck wherever you put it. Cloak of Fear goes to wherever you are, and can be always on rather than spending a lot of time recharging.
I seriously doubt you even played this character to a high enough level to even make any kind of judgement on it. It seems like you played it to level 8 and based your opinion on the numbers Mid's showed you. With all the things you said about the set that were just dead wrong, it is quite clear that you don't even know enough about it to make any kind of statement about how good it is or isn't.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Having been on a few TFs with both Dechs Tank and Transhades Scrapper, and saw what they can do, it's save to say that Dark Armor is quite far from any 'suck' if you know what you are doing.
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Originally Posted by Transhade
I do to but I prefer less people playing dark armor to minimize the chance it gets nerfed.
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Once upon a time I would have agreed with the OP. (The intent, if not the blatantly wrong errors in how the powers work.)
Then I took a serious look at it, and realized that I just needed a total of two IOs to make this set work like I wanted.
Yes, I wouldn't want to try and play this set with only SOs. Then I would have been forced to take acrobatics, and be stingy with the heal - which, as a resist based set, is a bad thing.
One KB protection IO (Steadfast Protection in Dark Embrace), and the Theft of Essence +Endurance proc in Dark Regeneration... as suddenly, I was golden.
Throwing the Performance Shifter +End proc into Stamina was just gravy after that.
The KB protection kept me on my feet until the 40s, when there were a few things capable of producing enough KB to throw me around a bit. The Theft of Essence proc fires off enough to take the bite out of Dark Regeneration's End cost. Hell, get enough people around you, and that power might refill your Blue Bar as well as your Green Bar - which, let me tell you, is pretty sweet.
With only those three, I do not consider that build to be an 'IO Build.' But they brought me the QoL needed to make the set fun for me.
...now, if only I could say the same for the primary I was using... -_-
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
I agree, as much as people try to sugar coat this matter, Dark Armor blows.
Anyone that actually made Dark Armor decently good to use can probably put the same time/effort into ANOTHER build and get way better results than they did with Dark Armor. |
In comparison to the SR i made, the Regen i made, and fire spinz farmer this is not that dark is way below the line.
I was looking to play some powersets i never did before. Since i have about 28 50s now. And dark armour and claws were some that i wanted to try.
I put dark onto a defender and ill try claws on somthing else later.
No matter what dark really needs attentiopn form the dev team. On melle toons and the toggles are rediculous. Even slotting ios (miracles, panacea, and numina and getting all the +end bonuses its not enough)
compared to other scrapper def/resist sets
In a world were defense is easy to come by, Dark Armor, with all it's debuff and exotic resists, is the armor set with the most potential. Hands down.
On SOs, it's still fine. Learn to play it.
Don't ask the devs to compensate for your inability to play a set properly.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Okay, I've heard enough. |
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
this
and fire spinz farmer this is not that dark is way below the line. |
This is someone who thinks Fiery Aura is better than Dark Armor. Fiery Aura is easily the worst set available to any melee AT, and this clown thinks it blows DA away.
Sorry, I still think you don't have a clue about how the set actually works.
When you acquire one, feel free to come back and discuss it futher.
Dechs is right. DA has the most potential for awesome out of any of the resistance sets.
Nothing else in the game is capable of capping psionic resistance. Dark Armor is also the only melee AT armor set that includes fear protection. It also has a good amount of end drain resistance. It includes 2 auras that, between them, can shut down every minion that enters melee range with you (actually, Oppressive Gloom can do it alone). It's damage aura is one of the least resisted damage types in the game. It has a stealth power so you can ghost missions if you want. It has the BEST SELF HEAL IN THE GAME. It has decent resists, and some native defense to build off of (In Cloak of Darkness). No other set gives you that many different things to work with at once.
If you can't build a DA character that can survive at LEAST as well as a regen, then you don't understand how the set works in the first place.
The one thing I will agree with is that Dark Armor sucks in PvP.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
My Kat/DA is all kinds of awesome. Leveled to 14 pretty quickly (and stayed there until I could afford to upgrade to a full blown account. Sure it sucked a lot of endurance and I did not make the smartest slotting choices but a respec fixed all of that. Even with it gimped by my learning how to play she still made it to 50 pretty quickly while playing.
Then, then I came here and read all that I could and learned from the builds posted. She now rocks. May not have the highest DPS in the game but that is fine with me. I easily do +2x4 for relaxing after work and have managed to acquire a few purple drops recently.
For curiosity's sake, how long did you even work with the toon before sending it into oblivion?
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Someone's never read Arcanaville's Scrapper Secondary Comparison... Dark Armour has: decent defense capabilities (Cloak of Fear's -tohit is essentially the same as +def), moderate resistances, especially to things most other sets are weak to (ie. psi), and the strongest self heal in the game. Yeah...totally needs help.[/sarcasm] I think what gives most people the impression that it under-performs, is that instead of having to watch your health bar like most sets, you really have to watch your endurance bar. Dark Regen will solve your health needs, IF you have the endurance to fire it |
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
this
In comparison to the SR i made, the Regen i made, and fire spinz farmer this is not that dark is way below the line. I was looking to play some powersets i never did before. Since i have about 28 50s now. And dark armour and claws were some that i wanted to try. I put dark onto a defender and ill try claws on somthing else later. No matter what dark really needs attentiopn form the dev team. On melle toons and the toggles are rediculous. Even slotting ios (miracles, panacea, and numina and getting all the +end bonuses its not enough) compared to other scrapper def/resist sets |
. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread and others, the endurance "issue" has several IO solutions. If you take the IOs one step further (a la Dechs Kaison), DA becomes a beast. Not surprisingly, that's what Arcanaville "predicted".[edited to include link]
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Dechs has a ridiculously survivable tank. |
Originally Posted by Guardien
If you take the IOs one step further (a la Dechs Kaison), DA becomes a beast. Not surprisingly, that's what Arcanaville "predicted".
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Werner, myself, and a few others have made AV soloing Sword/Dark builds. Fallen Valkyrja's build probably can as well, but they have never mentioned whether it actually has or not.
Desmodos knows more about the set than just about anyone else, and has made some stupid good builds with just about every primary possible.
The set has amazing potential, but you have to learn how it works first. Graystar seems to think he should be able to play it exactly the same as any other set and be fine. He's only saying it sucks because he lacks the patience to learn how to play it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Yawn.
^^This.
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Originally Posted by Skydance
Having been on a few TFs with both Dechs Tank and Transhades Scrapper, and saw what they can do, it's save to say that Dark Armor is quite far from any 'suck' if you know what you are doing.
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Originally Posted by Guardien
If you take the IOs one step further (a la Dechs Kaison), DA becomes a beast.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Dechs has a ridiculously survivable tank.
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I'd like to point out that my tank is Dark Armor/Fire Melee. Since Fire Melee provides no extra mitigation, every ounce of survivability my tank has is from Dark Armor.
If Dark Armor really does suck for you, I assure you that it's the result of operator error.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
My Dark/Dark Scrapper rocks! I love his powers, his look, and even his name I agree with others who have said you're too quick to judge a build based on how it is when you try to play it the same way as you would play something like a /WP or an /SR. /Dark is a different set entirely. It's an awesome set, if you learn to play it properly.
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
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That's not true. Shield Defense also gives you fear protection.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Dark Armor is also the only melee AT armor set that includes fear protection.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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So does Willpower.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
That's not true. Shield Defense also gives you fear protection.
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@Scorpio EU
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
Anyone that actually made Dark Armor decently good to use can probably put the same time/effort into ANOTHER build and get way better results than they did with Dark Armor.
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Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
this
In comparison to the SR i made, the Regen i made, and fire spinz farmer this is not that dark is way below the line. |
Dark Armor has very good resistance, a massive and fast-recharging self heal, and a couple different approaches for locking down and abusing minions. IOs make it awesome by covering the knockback hole, fixing the endurance problems, and adding large amounts of defense. So in my case, I have a soft-capped toon with very good resistance, sustainable endurance, and a full heal every 15 seconds or so. Now... what part of that sucks? The only thing that "sucks" for me is the lack of defense debuff resistance, which isn't something you've even mentioned, but hey, it needs SOME weakness.
Yeah, it's not as good on only SOs. Neither are most sets. Play it with some basic IOs to cover the issues and it'll be very nice. IO it to the teeth, and it's amazing.
I mean, I'll TAKE a buff if the Devs want to hand one out, but it would be kind of ridiculous.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Ive made and tricked out 3 other scrappers and 4 tanks and for some reason i wanted to try dark armour.
Well now i know its terrible, worst scrapper i ever even tried.
No def, the effects are terrible and almost irrelevant on a +2. Team stealth really on a scrapper LOL base like 2.5, -tohit on one aura and its weak versoin, 8 pbaoes toggles and no dmg, Fear, well with fear im surprised its not even half of the spectral terror and this is a toggle too.
I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy.
-Deleted-