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Well, I'd complain less if things were more balanced. I'm not deluded enough to think that I12 PvP was perfect, but it was a lot more balanced, diverse, and fun than what we've got now.
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Originally Posted by Teh_Siph
So...you'll never stop complaining then?
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Daer Ghost Falcon,
I read the thread title and thought " Yay!!!! FINALLY the Million's of prestige monolith( you know the BASE my vg built) will have a use and be back in action!! " Then I read the thread and absorbed that COP is returning as a PVE feature. Next thought I had was " O well.. probably a good thing since it would be an awful lot of work to recontact all the vg members that have quit the game and try to get them back here or recruit new members anyway. "
My sub is almost expired but I still pop in when my current gaming passion is down for maintenance. I went to pay the vg rent last Tuesday during such a time and for kicks looked up the top sg/vg's.You know what, GF? I was dismayed to notice that a vg which hasnt had active member activity in over a year is STILL in the top 15. Not only that..... 11 of the top 20 on this particular server are comprised of s/vg's much like mine who have been retired for a year or longer.It is a sad thing when the current player population cannot overtake old, retired s/vg's. I mean , c'mon...... these guys//gals have had easier prestige earnings and much lower base costs for some time now. What's the deal,GF??
I don't get it. COP was a s/vg activity.The reward provided buffs and an incentive to promote base raids. Capturing an IOP wasn't intended to be some namby, pamby pve incentive was it?
Sir? For the love of God, Budha, Satan,Mother Earth, Razoule..... who tf ever you believe in please(I don't personally ever type the A word deity) just admit how badly the pvp changes have been received and roll it BACK until you come up with a better plan. Reintroducing COP as a nonpve feature is nothing but another slap in the face to the pvp community.Fine... they are used to it. However, this version of "bend over bish" or "shaddup and swallow" takes the cake. If you all area actually going to do this COP thing as pve? PVP DESERVES A COMPROMISE. Roll the crap back and reinstate baseraids until you can devote the time needed to pvp.
Sincerely,
DB ( aka@Southern.. Meli to friends and crazybitchfromhell to enemies)
P.S. You actually had me excited for a moment there,GF. Please forward my thanks to the wonderful development team for yet one more disappointment.Alot of people have been putting their money where their mouths are for quite some time . The results are now just beginning to show in earnings reports for the game. You are perfectly capable of validating the s/vg information I cited above very easily. If you would like group names so you can access pm me. LOL@377 days offline over 100 players in ONE group!Multiply that off ONE server times 11. Then add in other similar servers and THEN add in higher population servers... GHEEZ!!!!! WAKE THE FRAK UP, DEV'S.
P.S.S. edited to say Thank you for having the balls to deliver this news about COP and in such a positive,delightful manner. Cheers!!!
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Originally Posted by James_Donner
Y'all expect so much.
Castle just learned how defense worked when he looked at Blessing of the Zephyr for the first time. He was only the powers guys for what, 2 years before that. You can't expect him to understand something as complex as pvp and real endgame content. Oh wait, never mind Positron is handling the end game. Now he can completely finish off what he started with the MA system. Maybe the will let Jay work on PVP next. Then it would be fabulous. |
Ding but you forgot he found all possible numbers for shield charge were wrong after what a year plus of it being in the game ?
I miss base raids...most fun I ever had besides the rare times I do some zone PvP with dUmb.
I think I can sum up everyone's rage in one picture, whether you keep a straight face or not is not my problem!
and I think my thread title is more appropriate
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yeah well it's not like i like the changes from i13; some were ok and other ones not so hot. I'm not really saying anyone here's a spoiled whiny brat, But I'm just fed up with all the irrelavant topic throwbacks that are not going to help make PvP any better. The devs ain't gonna revert much of anything and putting in an i12 button in arena is honestly shamefull for a "respected" dev team to do in this industry. Even if Castle admits any balance mistake, little tweeks here and there are all we will get cuz he has to go through all these other dudes and posi. |
Originally Posted by macskull
Well, I'd complain less if things were more balanced. I'm not deluded enough to think that I12 PvP was perfect, but it was a lot more balanced, diverse, and fun than what we've got now.
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In any event, you guys will like what GR has to offer and yeah GR is more "balanced" and 1 old AT more diverse (I just know don't ask).
(On another note, i could care less about base raids but i'd like to suggest that the base raid idea be put into arena with dev made maps. lol i got all these red reps cuz people thought i was a fight clubber Lmao this is how ignorant forum PvP is.)
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because everyone knows when the dev team makes a decision, the player response should be to bend over and take it whether it is a good or bad change and then thank them all the while (ironically this is what the bulk of the player base does anyway)|
Originally Posted by Neeto
yeah well it's not like i like the changes from i13; some were ok and other ones not so hot. I'm not really saying anyone here's a spoiled whiny brat, But I'm just fed up with all the irrelavant topic throwbacks that are not going to help make PvP any better. The devs ain't gonna revert much of anything and putting in an i12 button in arena is honestly shamefull for a "respected" dev team to do in this industry. Even if Castle admits any balance mistake, little tweeks here and there are all we will get cuz he has to go through all these other dudes and posi.
In any event, you guys will like what GR has to offer and yeah GR is more "balanced" and 1 old AT more diverse (I just know don't ask). (On another note, i could care less about base raids but i'd like to suggest that the base raid idea be put into arena with dev made maps. Oh i got all these red reps cuz people thought i was a fight clubber Lmao this is how ignorant forum PvP is.) |
and i'd attribute your neg rep to your lack of pvp knowledge or anything related to the subject (close to saist levels) and less to just simple forum pvp.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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oh like yeah the 174 people who pvp and the 23 vocal PvPers who actually know whats going on in pvp make up the bulk of the player base lol. yeah listen to us devs don't worry about the 10,000+ badging noobs that pay for your porches and suburban homes. ok So lemme try complaining now see what that does.... |
Originally Posted by PC_guy
because everyone knows when the dev team makes a decision, the player response should be to bend over and take it whether it is a good or bad change and then thank them all the while (ironically this is what the bulk of the player base does anyway)
and i'd attribute your neg rep to your lack of pvp knowledge or anything related to the subject (close to saist levels) and less to just simple forum pvp. |
Hey dev dude I don't like the sucky low DR curve for squishie res numbers, ...................................... .................................. why so much free res? .................. .. ......... ..........
ok yeah i complained... nothing happened. Maybe if all 23 of us complain something will happen? lol.
So yeah please look at the bigger picture here, take into consideration how many people are actually "hardcore" PvPers, the history of arena PvP, how many noob fight clubbers/zoners there are, what's the end goal for devs when looking at PvP, PvP numbers, statistics, and bugs, etc. I didn't say jack when people noticed the placate proc being bugged because there was reasoning behind it. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but most importantly express reasoning, an understanding of the larger picture, and a foward thought process when making opinions. i.e; even if "I" like mezz prot/mag how many different players of different skill level and strategies will that affect? how many would it benefit? There's a lot of bigotry in PvP for a lot of the "noobs" (like in any game), and i've been found guilty some of the times, but if this game is going to grow past 4v4 kick balls on a prime time thursday night (freedom), we are going to have to educate newbies and treat them as equals because the devs don't care if your a 1337 or a nub and neither should we. To them you both pay them $15 a month each account and both have 3 accounts for farming. This shiet should all be old news. /rant
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Did you ever stop to think the reson there is only 174 PvPers now is cause of i13, and if you what to know how those that do not post on the forms feel about PvP why not stop by RV or SC and ask in broadcast and I'm pertty sure they will echo the same feeling that the 23 vocal formers have been saying since the tarded idea of i13 came to life.|
Originally Posted by Neeto
oh like yeah the 174 people who pvp and the 23 vocal PvPers who actually know whats going on in pvp make up the bulk of the player base lol. yeah listen to us devs don't worry about the 10,000+ badging noobs that pay for your porches and suburban homes. ok So lemme try complaining now see what that does....
Hey dev dude I don't like the sucky low DR curve for squishie res numbers, ...................................... .................................. why so much free res? .................. .. ......... .......... ok yeah i complained... nothing happened. Maybe if all 23 of us complain something will happen? lol. So yeah please look at the bigger picture here, take into consideration how many people are actually "hardcore" PvPers, the history of arena PvP, how many noob fight clubbers/zoners there are, what's the end goal for devs when looking at PvP, PvP numbers, statistics, and bugs, etc. I didn't say jack when people noticed the placate proc being bugged because there was reasoning behind it. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but most importantly express reasoning, an understanding of the larger picture, and a foward thought process when making opinions. i.e; even if "I" like mezz prot/mag how many different players of different skill level and strategies will that affect? how many would it benefit? There's a lot of bigotry in PvP for a lot of the "noobs" (like in any game), and i've been found guilty some of the times, but if this game is going to grow past 4v4 kick balls on a prime time thursday night (freedom), we are going to have to educate newbies and treat them as equals because the devs don't care if your a 1337 or a nub and neither should we. To them you both pay them $15 a month each account and both have 3 accounts for farming. This shiet should all be old news. /rant |
An as for the "10,000+ badging noobs" most of them are sitting in Atles and Cap. with no travil power and 10 AE badges kissing the Devs ***** on the PvE forms. I would say that PvPers have more badges cause of needing them for accolades.
If you want the big picture its that PvP has always took a back seat to PvE, and for one sec. the PvP community would like the Devs to accnolage that there is even PvP in this game.
"Everyone's entitled to an opinion but most importantly express reasoning, an understanding of the larger picture, and a foward thought process when making opinions" think you should read this yourself.
Do people think im a fan of i13 or something? lol im not. Anyways i knew exaclty what happened in i13 saw it comming from PMs i got from Castle way back in i11 when he acknowledged the Flaws, Buggs, and certain OPness in the Dom AT. Since he knew it was a waste of time to fix certain issues then i knew he had something planned that when changed those issues would be addressed (I reasoned the only way for him to do it was to breakdown the whole system). I also had a feeling guys like peritus, rystorm, Ajax, lab, etc. would leave the game since this change practically broke down competitive arena PvP (reason why people left cuz of i13 is irrelavant now so why am I gonna play into this again??). So I'm gonna stop here, there's not a lot of people who know me anymore and i like to stay on the downlow as the "nobody noob who doesn't know shitz about PvP"
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Are you saying you are the reason for i13 changes?|
Originally Posted by Neeto
Do people think im a fan of i13 or something? lol im not. Anyways i knew exaclty what happened in i13 saw it comming from PMs i got from Castle way back in i11 when he acknowledged the Flaws, Buggs, and certain OPness in the Dom AT. Since he knew it was a waste of time to fix certain issues then i knew he had something planned that when changed those issues would be addressed (I reasoned the only way for him to do it was to breakdown the whole system). I also had a feeling guys like peritus, rystorm, Ajax, lab, etc. would leave the game since this change practically broke down competitive arena PvP (reason why people left cuz of i13 is irrelavant now so why am I gonna play into this again??). So I'm gonna stop here, there's not a lot of people who know me anymore and i like to stay on the downlow as the "nobody noob who doesn't know shitz about PvP"
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My point exactly, the devs listened to players who had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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I don't think you're a fan of i13, i do think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by Neeto
Do people think im a fan of i13 or something? lol im not. Anyways i knew exaclty what happened in i13 saw it comming from PMs i got from Castle way back in i11 when he acknowledged the Flaws, Buggs, and certain OPness in the Dom AT. Since he knew it was a waste of time to fix certain issues then i knew he had something planned that when changed those issues would be addressed (I reasoned the only way for him to do it was to breakdown the whole system). I also had a feeling guys like peritus, rystorm, Ajax, lab, etc. would leave the game since this change practically broke down competitive arena PvP (reason why people left cuz of i13 is irrelavant now so why am I gonna play into this again??). So I'm gonna stop here, there's not a lot of people who know me anymore and i like to stay on the downlow as the "nobody noob who doesn't know shitz about PvP"
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
Are you saying you are the reason for i13 changes?
My point exactly, the devs listened to players who had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. |
neeto you're busted! good catch boss!
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Originally Posted by Neeto
OBJECTIVE (not opinion based) feedback:
- one really good thing about i13 PvP is the lack of dependence on any one inspiration. - second, is that teaming in PvP is to be the most effective if all players multi-task and use both their Primary and secondary. This takes many players to a different level of play were its not as easy as being just the "buffer", "healer" or "taunt bot" anymore. - many ATs (excluding Doms and blasters) have been placed appropriately in their respective roles and even when fighting each combination of ATs there is a chance to win or lose depending on skill and style. This is also made possible because of the inheret AT PvP resistances, resistable AS values, and the buff to taunt. - Slightly less dramatic differentiation between PvE builds and PvP specific builds in a PvP environment. - Elusivity really helped many sets that were slightly underperforming before, (but at the same time, some elusivity values are uncalled for such as blaster and dom PFF values which essentially made these damage/damgecontroll ATs capable of being more resilient than a tank or brute.) - PvP rewards medium inspirations and enough influence to buy more inspirations. - Fly is more viable. - TP foes is slightly less useful, and makes it harder for people to grief. - More viable ATs for high end arena matches. - Multi-Builds Subjective (less important personal opinions) feedback: - I like how many of my ATs feel more comic book like than before as i (or i must) have taken more powers that not only make me more effective in PvP but make me fit the comic book theme. (This opinion stuff is hard soo i'll stop here.) |
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Depending on how you implement that, that's fine. In reality, a PvE trial or TF shouldn't be tied to PvP. Likewise, nobody should be forced to complete a PvE trial in order to enjoy PvP. |
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
Previously the Cathedral of Pain was used to acquire Items of Power which were instrumental in Base Raiding. The initial implementation of the CoP was exploitable and ultimately removed. We have always wanted to revisit the CoP and return it to something players could participate in, and with Issue 18 we will be doing just that.
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If you want to bring this back as a purely PvE experience, that is fine. Posting it in the PvP section is virtually a slap in the face to people you have alienated non-stop since I13 (and most likely before, but I13 was the worst).
Once again, Ghost Falcon, you Devs show your ignorance over who gravitates to which content. The majority of people who post in this section are arena and zone enthusiasts. These people may take part in base raids too, but many of the raids back in the day were by active PvE enthusiasts that were obsessed with:
1. SG Recruiting
2. Badging/base building
3. Accumulating massive amounts of prestige (for #1 and #2)
Honestly, the base raids geared more to the 'casual' PvPer that you guys were so fired up to appease with the collective brain fart that you call Issue 13. In essence, you probably killed off more 'casual' PvPers by eliminating an environment where a katana/inv scrapper and a force field defender could flourish.
It was much easier talking a PvE friend into a base raiding environment than it was to talk them into Friday Night Fights on Triumph by a PvPEC rep or trying to get them to join an RV scrum and getting AS'd by an opponent that they cannot detect or understand how to negate.
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Base Raiding is currently on hold and not being actively worked on. We understand that this may disappoint some of you in the PvP community, but we wanted to tell it to you straight to minimize any confusion or false hope that Base Raiding would be addressed in this new iteration of the Cathedral of Pain. Thanks, Ghost Falcon |
Admitting a mistake is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. It allows people here to realize that they have a voice and that their opinions as customers matter. And, it's posts like yours that continue validate and perpetuate the beliefs that you do not value the PvP segment as customers and are essentially daring us to get fed up and walk away.
So, this is why you get backlash every time you venture into a PvP thread. You feel alienated and ostracized every time a red name feels compelled to post. It's the same feeling we feel every time we submit a public post or a long PM asking for certain things to be changed to make our PvP more enjoyable and make it so that we can have more variety.
Everyone mocks us for finding the most viable archtype/power combinations to achieve a desired PvP level. Most of us want other ATs to join the fray because almost all of us have toons that we enjoyed playing that are not PvP viable. Ask any PvPer about the toons they've enjoyed, and you'll probably get stories of a fire/fire tank, spines/DA scrapper, an ice/storm controller, or a dark/dark defender.
Maybe we'd cut you some slack if you'd make an active attempt to listen to us and help give us reasons to stay customers of yours. And, maybe we'd send the word to our friends that this CoH game has the best PvP (fat chance, but one could dream) of any MMO and we'd all refer them.
This will probably fall on deaf ears like most of what we have to say.
Try working with us sometime, Ghost Falcon, and maybe we'd bend over backwards to try to get you a better PvP system instead of just lashing out in anger at you.
Castle made him post it.
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Break Free, Emerge, Escape, Iron Will, Strength of Will, Clear Mind, Dispersion Bubble, Sonic Dispersion, Clarity, Thaw, Forcefield Generator, Increase Density, Antidote, Obsidian Shield, Static Shield, Power Surge, Plasma Shield, Unyielding, Unstoppable, Integration, Moment of Glory, Practiced Brawler, Indomitable Will, Strength of Will, Wet Ice, Rooted, Granite Armor, White Dwarf, Black Dwarf, Entropy Shield, Domination, Kuji-in Rin, Wolf Spider Armor, Crab Spider Armor Upgrade, Fortification, Bane Spider Armor Upgrade.|
Originally Posted by Neeto
OPness in the Dom AT
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These are all powers that when used intelligently negated the "OPness of the Dom AT." If you didn't bring Break Frees against a mezzing AT, you were screwed, and that's your own fault for not preparing. If you ran out of Break Frees in a match, you weren't putting enough pressure on the Dom.
That bit about "not relying on one type of inspiration" was gold, makes me feel glad I don't have to bring a tray of greens to matches. Oh wait, I do.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Stimulant.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Break Free, Emerge, Escape, Iron Will, Strength of Will, Clear Mind, Dispersion Bubble, Sonic Dispersion, Clarity, Thaw, Forcefield Generator, Increase Density, Antidote, Obsidian Shield, Static Shield, Power Surge, Plasma Shield, Unyielding, Unstoppable, Integration, Moment of Glory, Practiced Brawler, Indomitable Will, Strength of Will, Wet Ice, Rooted, Granite Armor, White Dwarf, Black Dwarf, Entropy Shield, Domination, Kuji-in Rin, Wolf Spider Armor, Crab Spider Armor Upgrade, Fortification, Bane Spider Armor Upgrade.
These are all powers that when used intelligently negated the "OPness of the Dom AT." If you didn't bring Break Frees against a mezzing AT, you were screwed, and that's your own fault for not preparing. If you ran out of Break Frees in a match, you weren't putting enough pressure on the Dom. That bit about "not relying on one type of inspiration" was gold, makes me feel glad I don't have to bring a tray of greens to matches. Oh wait, I do. |
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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__________________|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
With the exception of Neuronia most of the previous posters ranged from utterly pointless to trite and self-centered. To be honest i'm not sure how they necessarily are PvP posts other than some asking about the return of base raids. Which is something i'd like to see return as well. The old base raids i participated in were some of the most PvP fun i've ever had.
That said, i'm really looking forward to the Cathedral of Pain trial. i was only able to try the original version once, but i have a hunch the new one will be even more interesting. Edit: i guess the 'quality' of the replies and it being in the PvP section are what make them PvP responses to some. Honestly i have no idea why G_F posted it here, since the CoP was only related to PvP incidentally, and that connection has been removed in the new version anyway. |
i was on my Warshade casually squidding a lobster when i got to wondering why the Devs hate purples...
Do not feel bad, the dev dont like Super Reflexes either in I-5 they killed SR and made Widows, Ninjitsu and Sheilds all of which are better. It sux when you need to always run your T-9 power and still can get Ganked in PVP because of all the plus Accuracy bonus and a Defense cap of twenty something %.
My lvl 50 SR year 1 still sits collecting DUST.
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Haha, I just meant that they will never make things better. I wouldn't be surprised if they made things worse.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Well, I'd complain less if things were more balanced. I'm not deluded enough to think that I12 PvP was perfect, but it was a lot more balanced, diverse, and fun than what we've got now.
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22 50's in Bio
@Siphonic
RIP PX, GMW, and the game that used to be fun.
Still playing for reasons unknown.
if you're going to quote me, quote me with in context. It's always easy to edit anything a person is saying to mean something different. I said "a certain OPness of the Dom AT," which was just one of the subjects our convo was on at the time. Yeah this is great that everyone thinks I'm responsible for i13 lol cuz ignorance is srsbizz.
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No one thinks you alone are responsible, but that kind of affirmation you displayed in that posts certainly encouraged them.
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Originally Posted by Neeto
if you're going to quote me, quote me with in context. It's always easy to edit anything a person is saying to mean something different. I said "certain OPness of the Dom AT," which was just one of the subjects our convo was on at the time. Yeah this is great that everyone thinks I'm responsible for i13 lol cuz ignorance is srsbizz.
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Thank you for the notice Ghost. Always nice to know that the Devs are still pissing under our bridge.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
Base Raiding is currently on hold and not being actively worked on. We understand that this may disappoint some of you in the PvP community, but we wanted to tell it to you straight to minimize any confusion or false hope that Base Raiding would be addressed in this new iteration of the Cathedral of Pain.
Thanks, Ghost Falcon |
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Why do people blame other players for the i13 changes? I'm pretty sure the devs are capable of screwing things up all on their own. There are plenty of examples of that to pull from.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
No one thinks you alone are responsible, but that kind of affirmation you displayed in that posts certainly encouraged them.
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Kinda like you need 8 to do an ITF...
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Originally Posted by je_saist
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say: they let Castle work on the CoP. I think you are going to NEED all possible 24 players to get it done.
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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There are plenty of examples where they listen to players and change things too (for better or worse).|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Why do people blame other players for the i13 changes? I'm pretty sure the devs are capable of screwing things up all on their own. There are plenty of examples of that to pull from.
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Think back to the last time in your life you had an idea that you felt was a winner, but none of your peers agreed. It only takes a few people whose opinion's matter to you to affirm your decision to go forth amongst a veritable sea of negativity.
That said, I don't blame players for i13 because they didn't design i13. I do blame players for encouraging the devs by supporting any of their terrible ideas. I hope Neeto hangs his head in shame when reading what he said back then. I know I feel shame because when they announced that pvp was going under the jackhammer (despite a knife being more suitable) I vouched for Castle as a designer and a person with enough insight to get the job done. I was wrong on both fronts and I now have almost no confidence in his ability to get any job done to my satisfaction.
I wish there were a more polite way to convey negative feelings about the direction of this game without actually pissing people off.
Showing numbers is telling the truth, and the truth is more often than not... a very ugly thing.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project