Oh Joygasm! Merged Markets!


Abigail Frost

 

Posted

Honestly, this is the best City of Heroes news in a long time. Im probably more amped about this than I am about Going Rogue.

Brilliant, best move they could have made.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by swellguy View Post
:d
ha!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
The reason for RP blaming wasn't a universal RP blame. It was targetted specifically at the notion that there was only one way to RP the markets and that was that the heroes would never buy from the villains. Meanwhile many other RPing versions were indifferent or even pro-merger as you mention you could come up with. But that particular strain of RPer would not accept any version but their own.
And yet some people opposed to this merge for tenuous RP reasons* still happily use a system which is categorically stated to have been created by Dr Aeon and Crey Industries.



People are weird.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
And yet some people opposed to this merge for tenuous RP reasons* still happily use a system which is categorically stated to have been created by Dr Aeon and Crey Industries.



People are weird.
And in that same context, no less, a system that has been tapped by those same sources as potentially a route for harvesting... information.

BUT IT'S ALL OKAY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO AE SO SHUT UP I CAN'T HEAR YOU CONSISTANCY IS GOD LA LA LA.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post


Another hard fought win.
I'm not trolling..but did you guys really not see this coming? I've been buying up blue side Edicts and other pet def I/O's for a month now. Am I'm really not a smart guy at all.But "Going Rouge" just smelled of a big "ol merger of a lot of things. What? Was the new game gonna have it's own market? I really doubt it. So this merger was the most obvious conclusion.
So YIPPY you won? That made me laugh. "Another hard fought win"! That's just embarrassing if you think that you made this happen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by anvil_NA View Post
I'm not trolling..but did you guys really not see this coming? I've been buying up blue side Edicts and other pet def I/O's for a month now. Am I'm really not a smart guy at all.But "Going Rouge" just smelled of a big "ol merger of a lot of things. What? Was the new game gonna have it's own market? I really doubt it. So this merger was the most obvious conclusion.
So YIPPY you won? That made me laugh. "Another hard fought win"! That's just embarrassing if you think that you made this happen.
1: given categorical dev statements (see my sig for an example) that merging was not an option we can be forgiven for not "seeing it coming".

2: Geko and a couple of us other regs have been battling the stupidity of segregated markets in the face of backward devs and uninformed players for as long as there has been a market. We have absolutely had an impact on the debate, as merging went from a fringe belief promoted by a handful of lunatics to a widely accepted solution to Black Market problems.


and free market tip, everybody on earth is buying up pet sets. my heroes have already stocked away all the IOs my masterminds will ever need, and I know I'm not alone.

I mean, you'll still make inf- the release of GR is going to see a market tsunami the likes of which we've never experienced. But there are many, many other areas that will be more profitable for a longer period after the transition.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post

and free market tip, everybody on earth is buying up pet sets.
Im not.

Im going the healing set route. Why you ask? The massive influx of emp defenders to red. If Im going to have to suffer through the spam of "healer lft!" in every zone in the game, Im going to profit from it. Oh, the "creative" names like "Xxh347z0rxX" are what I look forward to the most.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggotface View Post
Im not.
I did...when Demons were announced I nabbed CTA uniques for 6.25M IIRC. I've sold them all (save for 3) over the past 2-3 weeks. Sadly, I was not on the other side of the recent 500M sale .

The stacks of blue side CTA uniques that I have were each bought at < 1M. Bought those when Electrical Control was announced...never gave a market merger a serious thought at-the-time. Circumstance and dumb-luck.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
2: Geko and a couple of us other regs have been battling the stupidity of segregated markets in the face of backward devs and uninformed players for as long as there has been a market. We have absolutely had an impact on the debate, as merging went from a fringe belief promoted by a handful of lunatics to a widely accepted solution to Black Market problems..
I think the point that anvil is making is that the decision to merge the markets was made in the face of the upcoming Going Rogue expansion rather than in reaction to player requests or demands.

So while this is a fortuitous turn of events for the pro-merger folks, it cannot be said to have been brought about as a result of their campaigning.


>


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
I think the point that anvil is making is that the decision to merge the markets was made in the face of the upcoming Going Rogue expansion rather than in reaction to player requests or demands.

So while this is a fortuitous turn of events for the pro-merger folks, it cannot be said to have been brought about as a result of their campaigning.
Except that when Going Rogue was announced we asked about merged markets and were told specifically that they had no plans to do so and that the database tech made doing so infeasible. While there has been market merge campaigning for some time it actually picked up quite a bit as GR came nearer because it seemed like a logical time to do it. So yes I'm sure GR was part of the catalyst for the merger but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened without the players who were campaigning for it. The devs specifically stated that they weren't going to merge the markets in several discussions so apparently something made them change their mind during the GR beta (which is pretty late for a large change like that). In particular I suspect the number of people who made comments along the lines of making all of their villains vigilantes so that they can enjoy redside content but have access to the good market made an impact on the devs's thinking.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
I think the point that anvil is making is that the decision to merge the markets was made in the face of the upcoming Going Rogue expansion rather than in reaction to player requests or demands.

So while this is a fortuitous turn of events for the pro-merger folks, it cannot be said to have been brought about as a result of their campaigning.


>
As the only comprehensive reform possible it was always an inevitability, assuming they did anything at all about the discrepancies.

That isn't going to stop those of us who saw it early and took every opportunity to keep it in the public eye in the face of endless naysaying from devs and others from taking a well deserved victory lap.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
I think the point that anvil is making is that the decision to merge the markets was made in the face of the upcoming Going Rogue expansion rather than in reaction to player requests or demands.

So while this is a fortuitous turn of events for the pro-merger folks, it cannot be said to have been brought about as a result of their campaigning.
Path of least resistance. It was certainly an easier decision to make given the overwhelming support for the idea. Few decisions are made for a single reason.


 

Posted

Not only was GR a logical time to merge the markets, it would also have created circumstances under which one of the markets, and two of the alignments, would likely have been rendered nonfunctional by player action. A de facto market merge with profoundly negative side effects was in the cards anyway; this de jure merge neatly avoids those effects.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
I think the point that anvil is making is that the decision to merge the markets was made in the face of the upcoming Going Rogue expansion rather than in reaction to player requests or demands.

So while this is a fortuitous turn of events for the pro-merger folks, it cannot be said to have been brought about as a result of their campaigning.
This, exactly. Which makes a lot of the self-back-patting look a bit like taking credit for the sun coming up today.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
This, exactly. Which makes a lot of the self-back-patting look a bit like taking credit for the sun coming up today.
Yeah as far as I can tell it plays out like this:

No GR side switching + player market merge requests = no market merge

GR side switching + no player market merge requests = market merge

Still, it's nice that it happened.


>


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Except that when Going Rogue was announced we asked about merged markets and were told specifically that they had no plans to do so and that the database tech made doing so infeasible.
My guess is the reason the devs said a market merge was infeasible was that directly merging databases is not really possible -- all the entries in one database have IDs that will conflict with different entries in the other database.

The devs will apparently finesse this by cancelling everyone's bids, refunding the influence paid for posted items and creating a transaction log of all items posted or stored for all characters in both databases. When they merge the databases they will probably make a clean copy of the database, then import those transaction logs into the new database.

Changing the requirements for the merger by not having to preserve outstanding bids and posts may well be what made the infeasible suddenly feasible.

In one sense this rewards certain players who made the mistake of posting items at to high a price. So if you've got something posted that has never sold, count yourself lucky!

I, for one, plan on taking everything I have off the market for the conversion. This is for two reasons: first, if there are fewer items on the market the conversion will go faster and smoother. Second, after having worked with databases for years, I know that conversions such as this are fraught with problems. The best way to avoid losing something on the market is to avoid having anything on market.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
I, for one, plan on taking everything I have off the market for the conversion. This is for two reasons: first, if there are fewer items on the market the conversion will go faster and smoother. Second, after having worked with databases for years, I know that conversions such as this are fraught with problems. The best way to avoid losing something on the market is to avoid having anything on market.
Right here. I may not take everything down, but anything I leave up be will things I can live without. No point in leaving anything up anyway. All bids and listings will be frozen until you log back in and access the market to reset it anyway. Come Aug 16th I'll pull as much out of the market as I can.


 

Posted

I honestly think the revamp of the market interface led to the merged markets, and the possibilities inherent in GR led to the revamp of the market. So as GR stood in the beginning, it probably looked like a bigger problem to merge the markets than to deal with the escrow and other separated systems. However, once the technology was in place, it probably was the other way around, and the escrow system became the bigger headache than the merged market.

That is to say, GR did not directly lead to the merged market, but the increased INTEREST in it due to GR indirectly did. And since a lot of that interest was discussion of merged market, I wouldn't say the talk about it wasn't an indirect influence as well.

I'm not going to begrudge some people a well deserved pat on the back. Not because they proved everyone who disagreed with them wrong, but because they kept the subject fresh on everyone's mind long enough for the perspective on the issue to change.


 

Posted

i didn't read through the whole thread, but i will say this...

judging by all the issues that have risen in the game since W_W(MB) took over as lead designer and her "lack" of rectifying the problems, if i were everyone i would remove everything off the markets before anything happens. and i would not put anything high value in them until everything has been tested to insure that the markets are working properly.

i am not trying to speak badly of W_W, just the lack of fixing problems. i hope i'm wrong, but time will tell.


 

Posted

yeah, that was a bit inexact. what i meant to say was priority wise, she doesn't seem to put bugs and other related problems in the front of the to do list. when you are getting reports on test from closed to open and they haven't been fixed before release and make it to release and take forever getting problems fixed, it is not a good sign. it just seems to me that there isn't as much QC as there should be with her at the helm.

this is just my opinion on what i have noticed over the last few months.


 

Posted

You sound concerned.

Myself, I see a lot of what's happened under W_W's watch to be the more ambitious, difficult things to implement, so, we get more bugs. I know of some bugs that have been around since I started playing the game, so the idea that W_W is somehow worse for QC than the older heads were seems very odd from where I sit.


 

Posted

No matter the developer, the company, the game, or the year, it will always be the case that the stuff you think is vitally important will be put off and ignored in favor of "stupid boring stuff that no one cares about." Always. It's uncanny.


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Posted

Link to huge open office sheet. Link to excel version The sheet contains pictures and numbers. I put up an open office and an excel version. Hopefully they work. I haven't had a chance to test either.

This file contains price data from 3/24 and 6/24 on the Red and Blue markets. I expect to collect data around 8/14 and 8/31 as well.

I did not collect the data in a scientific manner.

*EDIT* The spreadsheet is very helpful when people say things along the lines of "Redside is like ____" or "blue prices are higher" or "the markets are so alike/different".