Villain Archtype Equivalents
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 17:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
No. They do not "translate" exactly.
Corruptor = "un-defender."
Dominator = Blastroller.
MM = Serves as a tank, no real equivalent.
Brute = Scranker.
Stalker = Sneaky blapper.
Generally I believe this is the consensus
Brute = Scrapper+
Corruptor = Defender w/Damage
Dominator =Controller w/ damage or Blaster with controlish secondary
Mastermind = Tank(Bodyguard mode + Expendable pets)
Stalker = Blaster(Melee Focus/Blapper)
Quote:
Each redside archetype is a rough combination of two blueside archetypes:|
Originally Posted by that 1 guy
I know that the whole scrapper and tanker part is most likely correct, but I am unsure about defenders, corrupters, masterminds, and blasters. If you know what the correct equivalents are, please post a reply.
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Blaster + Defender = Corruptor
Blapper + Controller = Dominator
Tank + Scrapper = Brute
Blaster + Scrapper = Stalker
Controller + Defender = Mastermind (sort of)
Quote:
This is irreverent. A mastermind is always a mastermind. Good, bad, your the guy/gal with the minions. There is no mechanic in CoX that switches your archtype on you. And according to the devs, there never will be. Scrappers are always scrappers. Brutes are always brutes. Pudding monsters are always pudding monsters.
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Originally Posted by that 1 guy
I never really thought of this, but if GR were to switch the ATs to the side you are joining (which we all know won't happen but pretending if it were).
So, i'm guessing that ATs will switch if they were to as so: Blaster - Corrupter Controller - Dominator Defender - Mastermind Scrapper - Stalker Tanker - Brute I know that the whole scrapper and tanker part is most likely correct, but I am unsure about defenders, corrupters, masterminds, and blasters. If you know what the correct equivalents are, please post a reply. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Considering that my stalker plays a lot like a melee blaster, only without all the defenses...
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
People have been trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes since CoV came out. Try to accept that the AT's are just different and move on. CoV AT's are hybrids that can fill more than one role and the CoH AT's are specialists.
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Originally Posted by that 1 guy
I never really thought of this, but if GR were to switch the ATs to the side you are joining (which we all know won't happen but pretending if it were).
So, i'm guessing that ATs will switch if they were to as so: Blaster - Corrupter Controller - Dominator Defender - Mastermind Scrapper - Stalker Tanker - Brute I know that the whole scrapper and tanker part is most likely correct, but I am unsure about defenders, corrupters, masterminds, and blasters. If you know what the correct equivalents are, please post a reply. |
Quote:
^This^
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Originally Posted by Gruumch
People have been trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes since CoV came out. Try to accept that the AT's are just different and move on. CoV AT's are hybrids that can fill more than one role and the CoH AT's are specialists.
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Quote:
I wouldn't even really say the CoH ATs are that specialised, at least compared to classes in many other game. I've had scrappers tanking (or at least taking the alpha), controllers DPSing and so on...
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Originally Posted by Gruumch
People have been trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes since CoV came out. Try to accept that the AT's are just different and move on. CoV AT's are hybrids that can fill more than one role and the CoH AT's are specialists.
|
Quote:
The one that made the most sense to ME is as follows:|
Originally Posted by that 1 guy
I never really thought of this, but if GR were to switch the ATs to the side you are joining (which we all know won't happen but pretending if it were).
So, i'm guessing that ATs will switch if they were to as so: Blaster - Corrupter Controller - Dominator Defender - Mastermind Scrapper - Stalker Tanker - Brute I know that the whole scrapper and tanker part is most likely correct, but I am unsure about defenders, corrupters, masterminds, and blasters. If you know what the correct equivalents are, please post a reply. |
Corruptor = Defender (They have the exact same powersets with minor variations, only reversed)
Controller = Dominator (Control primary is the only real similarity, they play quite differently)
Scrapper = Brute (Jump in and hit things, that's what both of these do, and do it well)
Tanker = Mastermind (A well built mastermind in bodyguard mode is even harder to kill than some tanks, take Provoke from the Presence pool and you can serve as a decent tank if you need to)
Blaster = Stalker (Stalkers play like melee range blasters, in that both of them specialize in overwhelming alpha strikes, but tend to get overwhelmed themselves if they take on too much for them)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Doesn't change their concept.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
I wouldn't even really say the CoH ATs are that specialised, at least compared to classes in many other game. I've had scrappers tanking (or at least taking the alpha), controllers DPSing and so on...
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Can Scrappers tank? Yes, but they cannot hold aggro as well as a Tanker can. Can controllers DPS? Yes, a few like Fire/Kin, Plant/Kin can roll out damage faster then Blasters. But these mixes are unique and not what was originally intended. CoH ATs were built w/ roles in mind, that doesn't mean they aren't capable of more.
Simply CoH was built with teams in mind, CoV was built with solo in mind.
Quote:
My pudding monster is made of butterscotch but runs away from me as I will grab a spoon and try to eat it!
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Pudding monsters are always pudding monsters.
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And that is the nature of pudding monsters. You can't change it. No amount of respecing will change it. Only a complete delete and reroll will. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Body
My pudding monster is made of butterscotch but runs away from me as I will grab a spoon and try to eat it!
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Defenders and Corruptors are the only ATs that are really close to one another. The idea that "Corruptors are like Defenders that have damage like Blasters" isn't really true, they have about 15% more damage than Defenders, but that hardly makes them Blasters.
The other amusing thing is that the CoH ATs are hybrids to begin with, so the CoV ATs are hybrids of hybrids. 
This has been the way I have always described the Villain Archetypes:
Brutes have the role of Scrappers but play like Tankers
Stalkers have the role of Blasters but play like Scrappers
Dominators have the role of Controllers but play like Blasters
Masterminds have the role of Tankers but play like Defenders
Only Corruptors don't fit this sequence, they have the role of Defenders and play like what is referred to as an "Offender", or a Defender with a balance of offense and defense. No villain AT plays like either a Controller or a pure support Defender, as there are no pure support ATs villain side.
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That's one of the better examples I've read. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Defenders and Corruptors are the only ATs that are really close to one another. The idea that "Corruptors are like Defenders that have damage like Blasters" isn't really true, they have about 15% more damage than Defenders, but that hardly makes them Blasters.
The other amusing thing is that the CoH ATs are hybrids to begin with, so the CoV ATs are hybrids of hybrids. This has been the way I have always described the Villain Archetypes: Brutes have the role of Scrappers but play like Tankers Stalkers have the role of Blasters but play like Scrappers Dominators have the role of Controllers but play like Blasters Masterminds have the role of Tankers but play like Defenders |
/thumbsup
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Only Corruptors don't fit this sequence, they have the role of Defenders and play like what is referred to as an "Offender", or a Defender with a balance of offense and defense. No villain AT plays like either a Controller or a pure support Defender, as there are no pure support ATs villain side.
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Dominators have the role of Controllers but play like Blappers
Corruptors have the role of Blasters but play like Offenders
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Masterminds especially don't have a blue equivalent. Closest would be Defender with weaker heals/buffs/debuffs but has 6 henchmen. I think its dumb to say a MM is more like a Tanker than a Brute is. A Brute has basically the same exact sets as a Tankers, they just swap primaries with secondaries. Brutes get granite, super strength, etc that scrapper do not. Masterminds, like many ATs simply *can* tank if built and played a certain way.
Quote:
Proliferation should completely eliminate this. So as far as Power Sets are concerned, there should be no difference between Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers. Yet, there is no argument that Stalkers cannot tank as well as Tankers. It is not a matter of Power Sets, it is pool of hit points, and defensive capability.|
Originally Posted by Stratos
Brutes get granite, super strength, etc that scrapper do not.
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Quote:
| Masterminds, like many ATs simply *can* tank if built and played a certain way. |
Honestly, while I compared Masterminds to Defenders, they are actually more like Controllers without the controls. They have pets, which Controllers have, and powers they can use to buff those pets or their teammates. They're really more like Defenders with pets.
And while neither a Brute nor a Mastermind can cover both aspects of tanking as well as a Tanker, working together, they can. Probably better than two Tankers.
Corruptor=healbot, because freedumb runs like that yo
MM= healbot, see above
Brute=tank with more whining "why arent you taunting?"
Stalker= "what are you doing?"
Dom= controller with more whining "why arent you healing?"
Quote:
I am cashing in my chips when stalkers and scrappers can roll stone armor. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Proliferation should completely eliminate this. So as far as Power Sets are concerned, there should be no difference between Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers. Yet, there is no argument that Stalkers cannot tank as well as Tankers. It is not a matter of Power Sets, it is pool of hit points, and defensive capability.
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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
Well, as I said, the concept of Proliferation SHOULD eliminate the differentiation. That doesn't mean the devs won't make exceptions for individual Powers or Sets, though. I would prefer to see Stalkers get an earth-themed variation that replaces Granite Armor (and I don't see why you think Scrappers can't have it) but at the moment Stalkers can't get Shield either. So unless they get a special version later, there may still be some AT exclusions. |
Originally Posted by magikwand
I am cashing in my chips when stalkers and scrappers can roll stone armor.
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Still, Stone Tankers are not the only "true" Tankers.
Quote:
/threadjack|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Still, Stone Tankers are not the only "true" Tankers.
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Stone tankers are at the bottom tier of "true" tankers in my mind.
A true tanker has mobility and agility. A true tanker should be able to withstand and dish out a beating. A true tanker is the first and only one on his team to die.
If a tanker is the last man standing, he has failed.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
"First in battle; first to fall; never fall."|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
If a tanker is the last man standing, he has failed.
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For Brutes, it's probably "First in battle, after that who cares."
Masterminds, "You, go over there and die for me."
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Tanker = Mastermind (A well built mastermind in bodyguard mode is even harder to kill than some tanks, take Provoke from the Presence pool and you can serve as a decent tank if you need to) |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The one that made the most sense to ME is as follows:
Corruptor = Defender (They have the exact same powersets with minor variations, only reversed) Controller = Dominator (Control primary is the only real similarity, they play quite differently) Scrapper = Brute (Jump in and hit things, that's what both of these do, and do it well) Tanker = Mastermind (A well built mastermind in bodyguard mode is even harder to kill than some tanks, take Provoke from the Presence pool and you can serve as a decent tank if you need to) Blaster = Stalker (Stalkers play like melee range blasters, in that both of them specialize in overwhelming alpha strikes, but tend to get overwhelmed themselves if they take on too much for them) |
I view pets as a dull pain in bg mode. You can even choose your tank resistance by the number of pets you keep in BG mode. Slickly designed toons. And you have the choice of running your own team (you can heal your pets if you want and being your own defender lol). If you can wrap your head around provoke/taunting, you are golden. Just got to just a few learn commands. Thank god they will come blue side.
I hope they get tanker type ancillary powers in GR. But who knows what that is gonna be. They need a shield....
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This is an uneducated statement in regard to masterminds..|
Originally Posted by Stratos
Masterminds especially don't have a blue equivalent. Closest would be Defender with weaker heals/buffs/debuffs but has 6 henchmen. I think its dumb to say a MM is more like a Tanker than a Brute is. A Brute has basically the same exact sets as a Tankers, they just swap primaries with secondaries. Brutes get granite, super strength, etc that scrapper do not. Masterminds, like many ATs simply *can* tank if built and played a certain way.
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As mentioned masterminds are the only set that have a high amount of hp that is sustainable (moreso than a tank in many cases). Because of bodyguard mode the Mastermind themselves have have a damage resistance that's higher than most of the tank sets.
Brutes have "the same exact sets."
This is true but the parallel ends tehre.. the caps for resistances are 15 points lower (90 for tanks 75 for brutes if I recall correct). Brutes also have LESS hitpoints than scrappers..
I'm not sure if you've tried Granite Tank vs. a Granite Brute.. But my Granite brute is crap compared to the tank.. sure he can deal more damage, but unless it's smashing lethal damage.. forget about it.. the trade off for the speed and such does not put me anywhere near on par with a tank..
Further, unless it's changed, MM Pets have more aggro generation than any set villain side. I think the threat level pets are assessed at is only second to tanks.
The only part about an MM that Can't tank as well as it's a bit harder than it is with a tank to hold aggro.. But if you honestly think the brute (super reflexes aside) can wade into a big pile of mess like a tank can and come out alive.. You're sadly mistaken..
OF course there are MM's that can wade into massive spawns of stuff and come out with more hp better than others.. But the same can be said about the tank sets too..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Quote:
I disagree with your assessment of bottom teir of "true tankers"|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
/threadjack
Stone tankers are at the bottom tier of "true" tankers in my mind. A true tanker has mobility and agility. A true tanker should be able to withstand and dish out a beating. A true tanker is the first and only one on his team to die. If a tanker is the last man standing, he has failed. |
A poorly build stone tanker is bottom tier.. a granite only is bottom tier.
I'm quite content running my armors (all but brimstone) for general teaming and coming out alive thanks to rooted and earth's embrace..
Mobility can be mitigated by properly using taunt and the usage of teleport..
My stoner has no problem being the first to a mob (in any form) grabbing aggro to the mob and taunting that one guy that slips away because the blaster made them real mad.. A true tanker isn't about dishing out the beating.. But with the introduction of IO's stoners can do that too... +rech lowers the penalty of granite (and makes non granite way more fast paced), +damage helps offset the cost.
Pair a good set with a stoner (I chose fire specifically for the AOE's and damage outputs) and you'll find a granite tanker is definitely not a "low tier" tanker..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
I never really thought of this, but if GR were to switch the ATs to the side you are joining (which we all know won't happen but pretending if it were).
So, i'm guessing that ATs will switch if they were to as so:
Blaster - Corrupter
Controller - Dominator
Defender - Mastermind
Scrapper - Stalker
Tanker - Brute
I know that the whole scrapper and tanker part is most likely correct, but I am unsure about defenders, corrupters, masterminds, and blasters. If you know what the correct equivalents are, please post a reply.