All Things Art: Animation Edition
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2010-06-06 22:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I disagree. This has the potential to make the game's animations VERY ugly. Especially in melee attacks, as well as some ranged attacks, much of the power's "cool factor" comes from the feeling of force, which comes from proper footing and and body position. "Put your back into it," as it were. The last time I explained this, someone left a good example - a simple haymaker is a powerful punch, but try and imagine doing a haymaker while running backwards. You probably could, but it would look endlessly goofy.|
Originally Posted by Charcoal_EU
Extend this modularity to other parts of the animation system. Most importantly decouple the upper and lower body animations - some powers (like kicks) would probably need new alternate animations that can be performed with the upper body but there aren't that many such powers.
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Many games have tried this before. Rune is an easy example as probably the UGLIEST game in this regard, where your legs ferry you about like a dolly and your upper body pivots around like a structure-mounted turret. It is just that bad. A few others have tried it, most relevantly World of Warcraft and Champions Online. WoW skirts around the problem by simply not having many decent animations to look at, just the same repeated hand wave or bow shot, and Champions Online skirts around the problem by looking worse than my butt after a full day of sitting at the computer. The only game that I have ever seen (and that I can remember) which had decent attacks on the move was Oni, and that had special, unique attacks designed for each direction of movement (like a jump kick or a clothesline), and which locked you in motion for the duration of the attack.
I know I've gone on about not making a big deal about what we DON'T want and focusing on what we DO want, but this particular change has to potential to make things so bad, so... Horribly very much worse, that I just have to speak up. One of the big advantages City of Heroes has on other MMOs is its beautiful animations, and this has the potential to utterly remove that advantage.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Could we please get the Midnighter's 'Seated Drink Tea' emote?
Also, can the women please get something other than the 'prim & proper' sit. While a couple of the 'ledge' or 'bench' sit emotes will do, some just don't work for certain characters.
And along those lines, can the women also get the men's 'stool' sit. It's such a relaxed pose.
Edit: Would it also be possible to add and animation selection to out MA Contacts? Them just standing there doesn't always cut it. I'd like to be able to have them cower, or maybe juggling, just... something. (Granted the fact that the MA Editor is bugged, and any time an animation is playing frame rates go through the roof makes this kinda moot.)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I disagree. This has the potential to make the game's animations VERY ugly. Especially in melee attacks, as well as some ranged attacks, much of the power's "cool factor" comes from the feeling of force, which comes from proper footing and and body position. "Put your back into it," as it were. The last time I explained this, someone left a good example - a simple haymaker is a powerful punch, but try and imagine doing a haymaker while running backwards. You probably could, but it would look endlessly goofy.
Many games have tried this before. Rune is an easy example as probably the UGLIEST game in this regard, where your legs ferry you about like a dolly and your upper body pivots around like a structure-mounted turret. It is just that bad. A few others have tried it, most relevantly World of Warcraft and Champions Online. WoW skirts around the problem by simply not having many decent animations to look at, just the same repeated hand wave or bow shot, and Champions Online skirts around the problem by looking worse than my butt after a full day of sitting at the computer. The only game that I have ever seen (and that I can remember) which had decent attacks on the move was Oni, and that had special, unique attacks designed for each direction of movement (like a jump kick or a clothesline), and which locked you in motion for the duration of the attack. I know I've gone on about not making a big deal about what we DON'T want and focusing on what we DO want, but this particular change has to potential to make things so bad, so... Horribly very much worse, that I just have to speak up. One of the big advantages City of Heroes has on other MMOs is its beautiful animations, and this has the potential to utterly remove that advantage. |
You did not understand me. I am not asking for all the existing animations to be changed such that they do not involve lower body movement.
I am asking for them to be changed such that they assume the lower body will move as it needs to for the upper body animation to work. Most power seem to fit one of not (that) many patterns for the upper/lower body boundary: forward slightly, forward and down, down slightly, float upwards and down, float upwards while turning around, the slight up-down of the footstomp? in the heavy melee attacks like headplitter... (DP does not follow this pattern as much but that's a special case, for now).
So the powers would use their existing animations and the lower body itself would use an animation to fit the required pattern. And since there are a lot less patterns than powers it would become feasible to add and animate non-humanoid forms (like in my previous post in this thread) or "limited" humanoid forms like floor-length robes/skirts.
I understand this might require too much effort to be practical despite the potentially huge increases in customization that would result, so I am only asking David/other devs to look into this with a "can we do this?" check, as opposed to suggesting that it must be done.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
More alternate animations for the attacks!
I want more possible martial art style animations for the Elemental Damage sets! An Eagles Claw animation for Total Focus or Thunder Strike for instance.
A Storm Kick style Charged Brawl or a Barrage Style Havok Punch...ect...ect.
I jsut thought I should resay this for emphasis. 
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Is there anything you can do about the crab Spider Claws on the back, Because once you switch to the bane build or Respec out of Crab Spider pool and take up bane, the back is still on you and you can't removed it in the tailor either.
ALso if you can give us an option to Animated the Crab Spiders Claws, like make them moved it be nice to see also.
We could use the Hip cape not Widow Cape, but Something else like it for a booster pack or fSomething else like the Hip Cape, in future to acess.
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I'm not trying to stamp out suggestions here. Honest! I've just seen the idea of going the WoW model of the dolly body so much recently it's actually starting to scare me. The way you suggest it, it has the potential to look... Interesting, but again - there are no patterns, no reusable ones, at least. Each animation is unique unto itself, and while it's possible to retweak them all to match the patterns you're suggesting, that's basically redoing all powers in the game, something that the developers have historically been unwilling to do.|
Originally Posted by Charcoal_EU
I understand this might require too much effort to be practical despite the potentially huge increases in customization that would result, so I am only asking David/other devs to look into this with a "can we do this?" check, as opposed to suggesting that it must be done.
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I can actually see what you're suggesting upon clarification, but it just seems... I don't know. Unlikely? I want to say I like it, but I'm actually running out of imagination on this one, so I can't really go for it without some proof of concept, at least, which for animations is notoriously difficult to make mock-ups.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Archer supports this suggestion with unlimited blades.|
Originally Posted by GreenFIame
We could use the Hip cape not Widow Cape, but Something else like it for a booster pack or fSomething else like the Hip Cape, in future to acess. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Originally Posted by Charcoal_EU
You did not understand me. I am not asking for all the existing animations to be changed such that they do not involve lower body movement.
I am asking for them to be changed such that they assume the lower body will move as it needs to for the upper body animation to work. Most power seem to fit one of not (that) many patterns for the upper/lower body boundary: forward slightly, forward and down, down slightly, float upwards and down, float upwards while turning around, the slight up-down of the footstomp? in the heavy melee attacks like headplitter... (DP does not follow this pattern as much but that's a special case, for now). So the powers would use their existing animations and the lower body itself would use an animation to fit the required pattern. And since there are a lot less patterns than powers it would become feasible to add and animate non-humanoid forms (like in my previous post in this thread) or "limited" humanoid forms like floor-length robes/skirts. I understand this might require too much effort to be practical despite the potentially huge increases in customization that would result, so I am only asking David/other devs to look into this with a "can we do this?" check, as opposed to suggesting that it must be done. |
I just want to expand on this a bit because this is something you don't see very often in games. Due to the fact that its so hard to do well. As has been pointed out.
Now because a picture tells a thousand words... (its from Rifts)
And here is another example. He's a bit more main stream for those that don't know about Rifts.
Now I know were never going to have the ability to have 4 arms or back mounted cannons or any thing. I'm not suggesting that... Well maybe back mounted cannons at some point...
Any way moving on.
I would LOVE to have Tracks as a monstrous legs option. This would necessitate all kicks becoming punches and I'm sure a thousand other little problems we players will never know of. For example forcing the player to pick those animations which work with the legs they have. Even so I think it would be so very very cool and something no other MMO can boast of.
After we have tracks we can move on to other things like hover sled bodys and wheels and spider legs. (This is a Necon Destroyer from WH40K) I don't have a good wheeled robot pick any one got one?
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"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
What about an effect where drawn weapons appear with a flash of light as if being drawn from someplace/ summoned else or being created right on the spot.
Here are some examples.
A couple animations I did a long time ago. (I created the animation not the sprite.)
And this diagram I just made.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...rdsummon-1.png
And last but not least an animation.
Speaking of Zero, could we actually have an energy weapon (say a sword) that only flashes into existence when swung, but has no blade when held idle?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Haven't read every post in this thread so if this is a dup I apologize. I think each Assassination Strike animation should be unique to it's powerset. There are a few that use the same animation. I believe Dark/Energy share the same animation and Claws/Elec also. Since this is the ATs signature power, each powerset should have something different for AS so they feel more connected. Especially for us who enjoy playing that AT.
Just a thought,
~Iggy
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
I'd like:
A) An actual walk animation for the female player character model for the currently incorrectly labelled "Walk" power.
B) An additional strut animation for male and huge player character models using an appropriately labelled "Strut" power.
C) The current female player character model strut animation set to that same "Strut" power.
D) Unique animations for key Signature Characters. Have Synapse strike a silly pose, or Black Scorpian throwing Synapse as animations.
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Haha what|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
<snip> but again - there are no patterns, no reusable ones, at least. Each animation is unique unto itself, <snip>
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Just for an example:
whirling mace
fire sword circle
whirling hands
spin
whirling axe
ice sword circle
whirling sword
All these powers use the same body animation with different effects/powers. And in fire blast there are two powers in the same powerset that use the same body animation - Fire ball and Blaze.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
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Wow. Never had a problem with the female walk power myself. At least it doesn't look as stiff as the Male/Huge walk power.
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Originally Posted by OutRage
I'd like:
A) An actual walk animation for the female player character model for the currently incorrectly labelled "Walk" power. B) An additional strut animation for male and huge player character models using an appropriately labelled "Strut" power. C) The current female player character model strut animation set to that same "Strut" power. D) Unique animations for key Signature Characters. Have Synapse strike a silly pose, or Black Scorpian throwing Synapse as animations. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I don't know how much of this applies to animation:
I like the option of playing from a top-down view but the problems that I'm having is that the camera goes into closeup mode indoors and when passing underneath structures.
Another problem is that the distance/location marker doesn't accommodate that method of play.
Lastly, flight is problematic for me when in top-down mode; flight mechanics seem to stay with 3rd person mode.
If there are solutions already available that I am unfamiliar with, please let me know... otherwise can some options be added in to make top-down play more viable?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
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I'm 100% in agreement on the need of a resolution to the Walk/Strut disparity issue addressed by OutRage.
Also, that custom animation thing could be very interesting . . . signature animations for signature characters . . . hmm . . .
Well, in any event, we _NEED_ the animation of Black Scorpion tossing Synapse. It would be the only civilized thing to do, given their history together.
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Originally Posted by OutRage
D) Unique animations for key Signature Characters. Have Synapse strike a silly pose, or Black Scorpian throwing Synapse as animations.
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But Synapse is the most serious guy in the bunch. I swear, he's all "Crey experimented on meeeee!" emo and stuff. He's more serious than the goddamned Batman. He'd never do any silly poses.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Here's a few suggestions that might be great to see!
- Costume change emotes such as Ninja Leap and Smoke Bomb would make excellent Teleport Power customisations, as would a "Fast TP" ala Dragonball for superspeed concepts.
- Additional two-handed broadsword animations, and one handed Katana animations.
- Additional Dual Pistol animations (there are really only 2 animations in the whole set that I think look good)
- Reverse grip dual blade animations!
The usual other requests, animated hair and such are a must, as would be the ability to "scale" wings, for those of us that want smaller tech wings etc.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
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There are non-reusable patterns between non-recycled animations. Yes, if you have the same animation used for multiple powers, you do have the same pattern. Because it's the same animation. But there are no usable patterns between different animations. Even something as simple as Bitter Ice Blast and Ice Blast.
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Originally Posted by Charcoal_EU
Haha what
Just for an example: whirling mace fire sword circle whirling hands spin whirling axe ice sword circle whirling sword All these powers use the same body animation with different effects/powers. And in fire blast there are two powers in the same powerset that use the same body animation - Fire ball and Blaze. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Huh... Interesting.
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I love it! I honestly really hate the current effect we have on Teleport. It's decent, in that it's so generic it fits everything, but it's really disappointing, in that it's so generic it doesn't represent anything. I'd LOVE to see versions of it, like an inky explosion to fit Dark powers or a fiery explosion to fit fire powers.|
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
Costume change emotes such as Ninja Leap and Smoke Bomb would make excellent Teleport Power customisations, as would a "Fast TP" ala Dragonball for superspeed concepts.
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And, yes, "Fast Toilet Paper..." I mean, yes, "Fast Teleport" in a similar fashion to how super-fast anime characters move around terrain would be really cool. That would actually broaden Teleport's possible concepts considerably if I can sell it as "I'm moving so fast you can't even see me."
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| [*]Additional two-handed broadsword animations, and one handed Katana animations. |
Alas, BABs was adamant about scaling weapons to character models and ensuring their handles were too short to be used for anything BUT the current one-handed broadsword animations. I honestly don't know why he had a problem of long-hilted weapons, but just try and count the ways how many times we've been told "That weapon won't work for Katana. The handle is not long enough."
Personally, I would like nothing more than to see long-handled versions of all swords added to the game, along with animation customization allowing me to pick alternate two-handed animations. I would KILL to have that, but its chances of happening are... Rather low. Which is disappointing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Something I notice quite frequently with monstrous legs and feet... The crouch emote makes the legs clip like crazy.
Especially annoying, since characters who use monstrous legs and feet are exactly the type to be /e crouch'ing.
Some examples!
Female body, most sliders and height all the way to the left.
The shins go through the thighs. D:
Male body, all thin and skinny, still tall, fairly long legs.
Not quite as bad, but it still looks really really strange...
Is there any way to fix this at all?
Don't post much but figured I'd give my ideas (not new), but now I have voted for what I would like to see.
1. Lots of talk about different types of feet, I would like to see various hand types beyond monstrous option.
2. What about a Mr. Fantastic type of stretch travel power. (or even powerset)
3. Multiple arms (anthromorphic and human)
Thanks. Love ultra mode and all the current changes. Actually excited about mutant power pack costumes.
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Victory: Viagrus 50 Grav/Kin Cont
(Sorry if this has already been mentioned -- I skimmed through the thread and didn't see it.)
With the game now being able to produce mirror images of our characters (for the Issue 17 arcs), is there any chance of getting an option to have the Phantom Army and Phantasm powers create spectral copies of the character, rather than the "generic" models? I'd love to be able to pull out the old "how can you beat me if you can't find the real me?" line.
Major James Ashe
you aready can though, create a boss with a custom enemy group of the same character
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
I have a simple request. I was playing with the Devices Powerset and I notice that when Web Grenade hits, sometimes the web trap appears just BEFORE the grenade is even thrown. This slightly breaks immersion and I would love for you guys to alter the timing of these two events if possible.
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