The game is tedious

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

By all means, read the whole thread. You'll find I wasn't the one that started slinging insults. Just don't post about it here, it's off topic and an obvious attempt to find something that can be used to insult me further, since this thread isn't providing enough fodder.

As soon as end gets tight?

So level 3 then?

How many non-MM, non-hit-and-run stalkers, do you have without them?

Of course, a normal player would simply take the examples given him or her on how to fix their issues with one build and be able to grasp the basic concepts and apply them to their other builds. In your case, however, you are not actually interested in doing anything to alleviate your issues, you just want to make wholesale, across-the-board changes to game mechanics because they don't fit your own skewed concept of what the game should allow, which is to turn all your characters into tankmages.

I know you're not. Because they don't exist, at least not in any great numbers. Similar to many other claims you've made where you couldn't be 'bothered' to actually provide any of the evidence you claimed exists to back up your arguments.

I must have not noticed the complaints about levels 1-10, or let it go because that never fit my experiences, my observations of others, or what other posters generally report. The only other poster I remember from this thread bringing up the earliest levels said that levels 1 to 8 are very quick now, which seems to be true. I know that Ultimo_ sees more broad-based problems with endurance, but that's not at all a common view. He seems quite heavily invested in his perspective and he's unlikely to change, though, at this point.

I'll add a few data points to the mix, since I have some characters still under 20 ...

lvl 20 DS/TA MM, all solo, 15 hours
lvl 19 mind/TA troller, mostly solo, 9 hours
lvl 19 electric/dual blade tank, mostly teamed in teens, 9 hours
lvl 18 traps/dp defender, mostly solo (before i17), 8 hours
lvl 11 rad/dark corruptor, all solo, 6 hours
lvl 8 sonic/MM blaster, all solo, 3 hours
lvl 7 whips/poison petless MM, all solo, 3 hours

I have a tendency to dawdle and putter around, and do offline things while soloing, but then again I'm also experienced and most of these numbers reflect that. The MM and corruptor are clear outliers and I was most likely sitting in missions while I did offline things, when playing those characters.

I checked by finding a handy pedestrian who's name begins with "M", getting close, and clicking on them.

I wasn't trying to mimic a novice, and so there's that to consider--I also didn't use a set that has -def as a secondary effect, except for my corruptor, at a level range in which merely hitting is enough to take down minions in a few shots.

Ok so just PM me a build so I can take a look at it. I have had endurance problems on various characters and I have been able to solve most of them without sacrificing very much. Just send me a build and let me know your general concept for the toon and I will try to help you out.

Ah yes.. The thread where after 34 pages or so, you still couldn't grasp the simple concept of why your poorly built Defender couldn't have the survivability and damage output of a Scrapper. Epic lulz abounded in that thread, for sure...

The answer would only be "yes" if you didn't change it enough. Now it is very good. If you change it significantly, then stamina is worthless. These two facts taken together imply a point between the extremes where it is good, but not worth 3 whole powers to most people (except those looking for mega DPS, solo that GM builds.)

Selecting powers doesn't mean you need to slot them right now. You see, this is the difference between an interesting choice - say better damage vs better control vs more defense - vs a silly choice - say stand around and do nothing for extended time during fights vs take stamina. A good choice is one where all options have plusses and minuses. Taking another attack when you can't power the ones you already have is lacking in the "plus" department, making stamina the only real option.

Or you could simply take the statement "raise the base recovery" and take it to mean what was intended instead of reading it in strictly game jargon terms.

Or, to put it another way, "raise base recovery" could simply mean a 10% boost added on top of the base recovery - all it means in the scope of this discussion is "the recovery you get without stamina", it doesn't need to be affected by any other powers at all. But of course, your intent is to make it seem more difficult to implement than it actually is in order to avoid having to actually discuss the core suggestion.

Wow right back.

There's been plenty of mocking posts in this thread that were far more harsh than the post you're referencing. And, if I was actively trying to mock JackONight, the post in question would have a far harsher edge to it. There is no call to mock, though, there almost never is in my view, and I didn't go that route.

If you think my post was truly harsh, use a random number generator to pick a few posts at random in this thread, and then compare the tone of my post to whatever posts you randomly pick.

Isn't that basically the equivalent of having your wisdom teeth taken out one at a time?

Well, as long as you are talking about things that you claim happened that absolutely could not have happened. . .

Perhaps it's time to stop posting these threads. You know, the ones where you select a game mechanic that is impeding your tankmage defender and then disingenuously claim that you want it changed "for the good of the community."

It's interesting. I could swear I was playing one of my Tankers, but if you say it was a Defender, I guess I had better capitulate to your better knowledge of what I'm doing.

Aett was referencing my post, and your interpretation doesn't accord with mine.

The issue Aett raised is a valid issue, and it was done in a courteous manner. I would classify it as a concern, though, and not an objection. There probably would be some overall balance changes because there's a veritable forest of powers and IOs involved. In the end, though, that's mainly because of the sheer number of calculations needed more than because such calculations are difficult.

If you know ahead of time the total(s) to which you want a pair or a set of numbers to multiply, you can alter values on the left hand side of the equation and end up with similar final values at the end of your alterations. For example, if you changed base accuracy from 75% (as it is now) to 85%, then 15% as a base enhancement value would take you to within 2% of the same overall level of accuracy as even level SOs do under the current 75% base accuracy. And so on.

Holy crap, its like he has a form letter for starting threads...

I think ______ is a problem. Devs need to fix _____ right now. No, I am not interested in what other people can do to help me with _____. I really dont understand the mechanics of _______ but I will ***** about it anyway. I dont care if changing _______ will upset the balance of the game. I think that new players find ______ too difficult. I wont give any evidence of why _____ is broken, I will just state it. I will ignore all other positions about _____ because I dont know how to debate.

Please dont flame me about ____. This is a serious discusion. The topic is ______, please stay on it, unless of course I feel like going off topic.

With love,
Ultimo_

Go ahead... fill in the blanks.

I had a DM/Regen scrapper doing just fine without Stamina.

But as it's been said. It's not that you have to have Stamina. It's that everyone wants to play non-stop. So, they take the powers that they need to play in such a way.

Personally, I see it as fitting my concepts. They're heroes/villains who do lots of activity. They're fit.

Maybe that's what you're wanting. A fit hero/villain without it have to actually work on the fitness?

In that case...make a Regen. Grab some IOs.

Build an Electric Armor or a Kin...so many ways to do it.

And this is the reason I treat him like a whining child. If he were to put some actual work or analysis into it, do some math to try and prove his point, I would treat him with respect.

Until then, I will treat him as he is treating us.

Once again... try to pay attention. All the AT's do different things.(There is a little overlap, yes) For instance. Blasters do damage, and a might have a little debuffing from secondary effects(sonic for instance) Defenders Buff/Debuff, blast, and have much stronger secondary effects in their blasts.

If you want them(blasters and defenders) to do the same amount of damage for the same endurance, they will have to have the same amount of debuffing/buffing and have the same secondary effects. That is equality.

Only want the defender to do 80% of the damage as the blaster? Already there bub!(when solo)

The way it currently is, is balanced.

How about tankers and scrappers then? Tankers defences are there to allow them to survive while controling aggro(please note the distinction between controlling aggro, and just getting aggro, big difference.) and do a fair amount of damage. Scrappers do a crapload of damage, with enough survival to stay in melee long enough to defeat the mob. (It is up to the individual to decide what is more imortant to them, survival, or damage and pick the AT from there.)

To equalize them to do the same amount of damage for endurance cost, you need to either decrease the defence on the tanker, and bring its damage up, or increase the survivability of the scrapper, and decrease its damage. That is equality.

City of Sheep? Where every toon is the same? I hope to hell not.

I think the problem is you cant look at the game objectively. You don't sit back and say ohhhh... right, that might be overpowered, or unfair to other AT's. If this did go through, and defenders did do the same amount of damage as a blaster, but kept all of their buffing/debuffing, would you then roll a blaster, and in a couple weeks come to the boards complaining that you dont buff/debuff as well as a defender while they get the same blasts as you? Blasters should get more damage... Ad Infintium.

Your subjectivity is perhaps better suited to threads that don't discuss game mechanics.

I dont know, I've been tempted, and this thread was the first time I have paid attn to anything you have said. You provide fodder, no worries.

Ha. You have problems defeating a lvl 3 spawn because of end? are you running missions at +4/8 already? You need to pause to kill one luit and maybe 2 minions? Wow. End aint your problem.

I dont understand what you are saying. Please elaborate.

So you take a new and exciting power, but wait to slot it up way down the road? I mean, if you want a damage power, wouldnt you want to slot it so it is even more usefull to you?

Oh... you mean take another power, and further dilute the actual damge you are doing(but you are swinging dammnit!), and spend more end doing it, as opposed to slotting what you curently have to be more efficient? I think I see your problem with end at lvl 3 now...

No.

Same feelings here.

It is like he stumbled on some deep secret problem of the game that the combined experience of the other fourm posters have missed all these years and through all the ATs and powersets. When asked for specifics or given advise/solutions/workarounds, the threads end up like this one.