Which powersets for a strong healer Defender?


Bocus_King

 

Posted

Like the title says


 

Posted

Well, the most obvious is Empathy.

Dark and Kinetics are also rather adept at healing, and Radiation and Storm both can heal as well.

However, if you ask around I think you'll find that most people agree that a Defender's buffs and debuffs are even more important. Who needs healing when your team is shielded up, or the enemies are severely weakened?

Even if you are looking strongly for heals, you can't reasonably play without getting a good use out of your buffs and debuffs. Even Empathy, the first set people think of when people call out for 'teh healz0r', I'd say its strongest point is its excellent buffs, especially endurance recovery.

As for secondaries... take what you want to do some damage with. On top of that, depending on the secondary effects, you can enhance them to add even more debuffing.


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Posted

If by "strong healer" you mean "maximizing healing per second," you're playing the wrong MMORPG. Incoming damage is too fast and furious for purely reactive support. Un-mezzed, un-debuffed Freakshow Tanks will laugh at your heal-centric build as they shred through your un-buffed teammates faster than you can say "ohnoes we need moar heals." But if you mean a "regen tankfender," well, that's more viable.

You've got two routes to get a regen tankfender, Traps and Empathy.

Traps Pros:
* Partial mez protection means you only need Break Frees for sleep and fear effects, and Health will help with that.
* Photon Seekers and Acid Mortar can take some hits as well.
* Poison Trap will hold enemies, letting you focus on a high-damage secondary, like /Archery.
* Trip Mine adds even more damage to the mix.
* +Def and -Tohit synergy.
* Don't need expensive enhancements to do well. SOs will do just fine.

Traps Cons:
* Concealment pool will be important to pull off some of your tricks.
* Low regen from Triage Beacon, Aid Self will probably be important too.
* Some powers are unusable or annoying to use while Hovering, making hovertanking of somewhat less use.
* Many PuGs won't want you or won't consider you as taking up a vital team role. This is a problem for all non-Empathy defenders. These PuGs are clueless, of course, but it still means you'll have to be comfortable soloing a lot.

Empathy Pros:
* Huge regen from Regeneration Aura, and you're not tethered to any spot.
* Can skip Stamina thanks to Recovery Aura.
* Can skip Aid Self thanks to Healing Aura.
* All powers work fine while hovertanking.
* Only three primary powers (the auras) help you directly; the rest you can skip to make room for Provoke, defense toggles, etc.
* Can add the usual team support powers back in, in your second build, for Empath duoing. Which breaks the game and gives Castle cold sweats, by the way.

Empathy Cons:
* Zilch for debuffs and crowd control, so you might need a high-utility secondary, like /Sonic.
* Regeneration Aura isn't always on. Not even at the recharge cap.
* Break Free intensive. Health, Acrobatics and CJ will help, to a point.
* Recharge speed bonus intensive. The IOs you'll want for recharge bonuses will be expensive.
* No damage whatsoever in the primary. Veteran Reward powers, invention temp powers will help.

Short version: If you're relatively new to the game, go Traps/Archery (or your favorite AoE DPS secondary). If you've been around long enough to have access to LotGs and vet powers, go Empathy/Sonic (or your favorite utility secondary). If you team regularly with an experienced Empath, also go Empathy/* (to abuse Empathy duo dynamics).


 

Posted

Empathy being the obvious (IMO boring) choice, but the appeal of that set is actually the buffs not the heals. Although Empathy will probably lose appeal after GR comes out since /Pain corruptor is simply more fun to play with and just as effective as a empathy/ defender.

Kinetics, Dark, and Rad have a good heal AoE each but again all defender sets are more about buffing/debuffing than about healing.


 

Posted

A fully slotted forcefields defender "heals" 95% of incoming damage. It also has a toggle mez protection power.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

An empath heals the damage that hurt you.
A Force Fields heals the damage before it hurts you.
A Kinetics heals the damage before it leaves the hurter.



 

Posted

If you are interested in healing (which is a perfectly valid approach to support in this game), I prefer a controller. Yes, your green numbers are lower, but you have an extra set to choose from (Thermal) and your other abilities are also extremely useful for supporting the team.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
A fully slotted forcefields defender "heals" 95% of incoming damage. It also has a toggle mez protection power.
Your definition of heal doesnt correspond with the real definition of the word.

Heal: To restore soundness or health

Forcefields stop incoming damage from ever making contact they don't heal it.

Just so new players don't get confused.


 

Posted

It's too bad thermal and pain aren't available to defenders. I always thought that two heals was as much as I'd ever need.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
If by "strong healer" you mean "maximizing healing per second," you're playing the wrong MMORPG. Incoming damage is too fast and furious for purely reactive support. Un-mezzed, un-debuffed Freakshow Tanks will laugh at your heal-centric build as they shred through your un-buffed teammates faster than you can say "ohnoes we need moar heals." But if you mean a "regen tankfender," well, that's more viable.

You've got two routes to get a regen tankfender, Traps and Empathy.

Traps Pros:
* Partial mez protection means you only need Break Frees for sleep and fear effects, and Health will help with that.
* Photon Seekers and Acid Mortar can take some hits as well.
* Poison Trap will hold enemies, letting you focus on a high-damage secondary, like /Archery.
* Trip Mine adds even more damage to the mix.
* +Def and -Tohit synergy.
* Don't need expensive enhancements to do well. SOs will do just fine.

Traps Cons:
* Concealment pool will be important to pull off some of your tricks.
* Low regen from Triage Beacon, Aid Self will probably be important too.
* Some powers are unusable or annoying to use while Hovering, making hovertanking of somewhat less use.
* Many PuGs won't want you or won't consider you as taking up a vital team role. This is a problem for all non-Empathy defenders. These PuGs are clueless, of course, but it still means you'll have to be comfortable soloing a lot.

Empathy Pros:
* Huge regen from Regeneration Aura, and you're not tethered to any spot.
* Can skip Stamina thanks to Recovery Aura.
* Can skip Aid Self thanks to Healing Aura.
* All powers work fine while hovertanking.
* Only three primary powers (the auras) help you directly; the rest you can skip to make room for Provoke, defense toggles, etc.
* Can add the usual team support powers back in, in your second build, for Empath duoing. Which breaks the game and gives Castle cold sweats, by the way.

Empathy Cons:
* Zilch for debuffs and crowd control, so you might need a high-utility secondary, like /Sonic.
* Regeneration Aura isn't always on. Not even at the recharge cap.
* Break Free intensive. Health, Acrobatics and CJ will help, to a point.
* Recharge speed bonus intensive. The IOs you'll want for recharge bonuses will be expensive.
* No damage whatsoever in the primary. Veteran Reward powers, invention temp powers will help.

Short version: If you're relatively new to the game, go Traps/Archery (or your favorite AoE DPS secondary). If you've been around long enough to have access to LotGs and vet powers, go Empathy/Sonic (or your favorite utility secondary). If you team regularly with an experienced Empath, also go Empathy/* (to abuse Empathy duo dynamics).
After reading your post the whole "empathy tankermind" thing made me curious. Even though it would never come to my mind to make this kind of character, is this something you had in mind?

Threw i together on a couple of minutes.

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Posted

Mids' .NET 2.0 requirement unfortunately locks that program to Windows users only. But as long as you have Hasten you're probably on the right track.


 

Posted

If you think that Defenders are "healers", you need to seriously rethink the way you play the game. Seriously. I wrote a whole thread about this once.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
If you think that Defenders are "healers", you need to seriously rethink the way you play the game. Seriously. I wrote a whole thread about this once.
Everyone did.

To the OP: This is a classic dead horse on the Defender forums. Which means, yes, classic troll ammo. I'm just going to go with the Jock Tamson line: "Preventing is better than healing. [see crotch, kick to]"


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Empathy by far provides the most heals. The Aura combined with heal other allow you to keep the team healed and provide even better healing to anyone that is in trouble with Heal Other. Frankly I skip Absorb Pain.. 1) you already have an outstand solo heal in Heal Others that recovers very quickly and 2) I tend to avoid any power that takes away from MY hitpoints to do anything. Basically you can't heal anyone if you wind up face down on the floor because you died after using it and then got attacked. You have a good Rez and some pretty good buff. One nice thing is two of those are also aura so they will benefit you as well as the members of your team.

Thermal has good heals and adds some great buff. It has only one debuff but Melt Armor is outstanding. The one drawback is that while Empathy also has 2 buffs (auras that can actually help you. Thermal has graet buffs but the only person on the team you can't buff is YOU. One added advatage of Themal is its Rez which brings back your fallen team mate and causes an explosion damaging anything around them.

Dark has a good heal and Rez but also has a huge advantage in that both of them provide added avtanges. your heal will debuff an enemy while your rez slows and disorients. Many players, myself included, that use dark actually use the REZ more for that then they do actually rezzing a team mate. Hey if its not available when a team mate falls that's why they make Awake inspiratioins. No buffs with this set but it the slows, disorients and debuffs more than make up for it. One small disadvantage is that your rez, if using to rez a teammate, requires an enemy to activate or it simply doesn't function.

Kin has a good heal but no Rez which is not a huge issues considering the other advantages that KIN provides. The one drawback to the heal is your teammates have to be close to you for it to work and it does require an enemy to work. This can mean you may need to move into Melee range if you want to heal a tank or scrapper in trouble and find yourself taking added damage. The huge advantage with Kin is SB along with the powers that buff you. Everyone can attack and recover faster so they can do a lot more damage.

Rad has a good heal and rez and perhaps the best debuffs in game. My Rad/Rad Defender picked the badge title GIANT KILLER based solely on the fact that she has taken on and helped defeat ever single GM in game and most of the AVs. You also get Accelerate Metabolism which works similar to Speed Boost from the Kin powerset in that it makes your teammate quicker and they heal, recover end, etc faster until it wears off. The advantage here is AM is an aura so it doesn't just buff your teammate it buffs you as well.

If you take EMP do NOT skip your later powers. Fortitude and Clear Mind will become your go to power in the later game. CM recovers very quickly and doesn't require much more than a single Recharge Reduction to enable you to quickly protect the entire team. Fort is slower and needs 1-2 Recharges to get it down to being available about every 30 seconds. It does buff the individual you use it on adding to their defense and increasing their accuracy.

Whatever you decide on do not think of yourself solely as a "healer". By the later game most players defense is strong enough that no one cares if they have a HEALOR along or not. Take your attacks from your secondary and enhance them.. My phylosphy with my EMP always was a good offense is the best defense. I may not do as much damage as a Scrapper or a Blaster.. heck in some cases not even as much as a Controller but ANY damage is good damage and if everything in front of us is on the ground and not moving the need to heal has ended. I like to call that preventative medicine LOL


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
Empathy by far provides the most heals.
No it doesn't, Pain Dom does

Quote:
The Aura combined with heal other allow you to keep the team healed and provide even better healing to anyone that is in trouble with Heal Other.
You don't need to "keep the team healed", since Empathy is not a healing-based powerset.

Quote:
Frankly I skip Absorb Pain..
Bad idea

Quote:
1) you already have an outstand solo heal in Heal Others that recovers very quickly and
Quote:
2) I tend to avoid any power that takes away from MY hitpoints to do anything. Basically you can't heal anyone if you wind up face down on the floor because you died after using it and then got attacked.
Maybe you should learn how to team up with a proper tank then

Quote:
You have a good Rez and some pretty good buff. One nice thing is two of those are also aura so they will benefit you as well as the members of your team.
This is probably one of the only few things you've said that's true.

Quote:
Thermal has good heals and adds some great buff. It has only one debuff but Melt Armor is outstanding. The one drawback is that while Empathy also has 2 buffs (auras that can actually help you. Thermal has graet buffs but the only person on the team you can't buff is YOU.
Thermal's healing abilities are weak, it's a buff/debuff set, not a healing set.

Quote:
One added advatage of Themal is its Rez which brings back your fallen team mate and causes an explosion damaging anything around them.
Truth

Quote:
dark, kin, rad, etc
Dark, kin and rad are not "healer" powersets. If you think they are, please stop playing forever.

Quote:
If you take EMP do NOT skip your later powers.
I'd actually suggest not taking your first few powers as an Emp. The only real healing ability you need is Heal Other.

Quote:
Fortitude and Clear Mind will become your go to power in the later game. CM recovers very quickly and doesn't require much more than a single Recharge Reduction to enable you to quickly protect the entire team. Fort is slower and needs 1-2 Recharges to get it down to being available about every 30 seconds. It does buff the individual you use it on adding to their defense and increasing their accuracy.
Truth

Quote:
Whatever you decide on do not think of yourself solely as a "healer". By the later game most players defense is strong enough that no one cares if they have a HEALOR along or not.
Also truth

Quote:
Take your attacks from your secondary and enhance them.. My phylosphy with my EMP always was a good offense is the best defense. I may not do as much damage as a Scrapper or a Blaster.. heck in some cases not even as much as a Controller but ANY damage is good damage and if everything in front of us is on the ground and not moving the need to heal has ended. I like to call that preventative medicine LOL
THIS


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
No it doesn't, Pain Dom does

You don't need to "keep the team healed", since Empathy is not a healing-based powerset.

Bad idea

Maybe you should learn how to team up with a proper tank then



This is probably one of the only few things you've said that's true.


Thermal's healing abilities are weak, it's a buff/debuff set, not a healing set.

Truth



Dark, kin and rad are not "healer" powersets. If you think they are, please stop playing forever.


I'd actually suggest not taking your first few powers as an Emp. The only real healing ability you need is Heal Other.

Truth


Also truth



THIS



Wait, you managed to contradict yourself here.


You say skipping Absorb Pain is a bad idea and then say "I'd actually suggest not taking your first few powers as an Emp. The only real healing ability you need is Heal Other."


Make your mind up, or at least try and stay consistent through the one post.


For the record I skip Absorb Pain too, you don't really need it. If you're looking for a great team character OP I recommend a Plant/Emp Controller. Excellent team support and a lot of fun.*


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Everyone did.

To the OP: This is a classic dead horse on the Defender forums. Which means, yes, classic troll ammo. I'm just going to go with the Jock Tamson line: "Preventing is better than healing. [see crotch, kick to]"
So I stand by my suggestion for a Forcefield Defender; take Aid other, too, with it if it makes you feel better.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
Empathy by far provides the most heals. The Aura combined with heal other allow you to keep the team healed and provide even better healing to anyone that is in trouble with Heal Other. Frankly I skip Absorb Pain.. 1) you already have an outstand solo heal in Heal Others that recovers very quickly and 2) I tend to avoid any power that takes away from MY hitpoints to do anything. Basically you can't heal anyone if you wind up face down on the floor because you died after using it and then got attacked. You have a good Rez and some pretty good buff. One nice thing is two of those are also aura so they will benefit you as well as the members of your team.
Healz are overrated. This toon is a buffer, and has AWESOME buffs.

Quote:
Thermal has good heals and adds some great buff. It has only one debuff but Melt Armor is outstanding. The one drawback is that while Empathy also has 2 buffs (auras that can actually help you. Thermal has graet buffs but the only person on the team you can't buff is YOU. One added advatage of Themal is its Rez which brings back your fallen team mate and causes an explosion damaging anything around them.
2 debuffs, melt armor and heat exhaustion. Not sure if the rez does damage.

Quote:
Dark has a good heal and Rez but also has a huge advantage in that both of them provide added avtanges. your heal will debuff an enemy while your rez slows and disorients. Many players, myself included, that use dark actually use the REZ more for that then they do actually rezzing a team mate. Hey if its not available when a team mate falls that's why they make Awake inspiratioins. No buffs with this set but it the slows, disorients and debuffs more than make up for it. One small disadvantage is that your rez, if using to rez a teammate, requires an enemy to activate or it simply doesn't function.
Dark's heal needs a tohit check and the rez is auto hit but it does need a target. Shadowfall is a buff. I believe that in a given time, dark miasma when combined with dark servant can pump out the most green numbers in game.

Quote:
Kin has a good heal but no Rez which is not a huge issues considering the other advantages that KIN provides. The one drawback to the heal is your teammates have to be close to you for it to work and it does require an enemy to work. This can mean you may need to move into Melee range if you want to heal a tank or scrapper in trouble and find yourself taking added damage. The huge advantage with Kin is SB along with the powers that buff you. Everyone can attack and recover faster so they can do a lot more damage.
You do a diservice to kinetics with this description.

Quote:
Rad has a good heal and rez and perhaps the best debuffs in game. My Rad/Rad Defender picked the badge title GIANT KILLER based solely on the fact that she has taken on and helped defeat ever single GM in game and most of the AVs. You also get Accelerate Metabolism which works similar to Speed Boost from the Kin powerset in that it makes your teammate quicker and they heal, recover end, etc faster until it wears off. The advantage here is AM is an aura so it doesn't just buff your teammate it buffs you as well.
Rads heal is pathetic. Using this set as a healzor is a joke in and of itself. AM provides +acc/damage/movement speed and +mez resistance. SB provides recharge, recovery and movement speed.

Quote:
If you take EMP do NOT skip your later powers. Fortitude and Clear Mind will become your go to power in the later game. CM recovers very quickly and doesn't require much more than a single Recharge Reduction to enable you to quickly protect the entire team. Fort is slower and needs 1-2 Recharges to get it down to being available about every 30 seconds. It does buff the individual you use it on adding to their defense and increasing their accuracy.
Waiting till late game to use cm and fort is a bad emp. Those powers are game changers.
CM is mez protection/+perc, it goes on def/troller/blaster/khelds. Puttin this on tanks/scraps is reduntant. They already have it (well ok, against AV ghost widow and fighting arachnos you'd MAYBE put it on scraps/tanks). Fortitude should be 6 slotted with 3 def/3 recharge. Puttin this buff on players will GREATLY elimate your NEED to healz. It does +acc/damage/defense. Letting this power sit in your tray unused is criminal. Good emps can keep this up on 3-4 players.

Quote:
Whatever you decide on do not think of yourself solely as a "healer". By the later game most players defense is strong enough that no one cares if they have a HEALOR along or not. Take your attacks from your secondary and enhance them.. My phylosphy with my EMP always was a good offense is the best defense. I may not do as much damage as a Scrapper or a Blaster.. heck in some cases not even as much as a Controller but ANY damage is good damage and if everything in front of us is on the ground and not moving the need to heal has ended. I like to call that preventative medicine LOL
This might be the only good advice youve given in this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Yeah, I like Blasters too.

 

Posted

defebcer build

all emp, med pool, no attacks, group fly.

do et for the lulz or if you're serious do et because you're stupid


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Posted

Quote:
Rads heal is pathetic.
Yes, Radiant Aura has range problems, but it's a perfectly good self heal.

Absorb Pain: It's not all that bad a power, but for Defenders, it has two strikes against it, just because of the way the Defender archetype works. Defenders have a big healing scalar, so Heal Other is sufficient for most needs, and recharges faster -- strike one. Defenders have Vigilance, so Absorb Pain's naturally low endurance cost isn't much help, since Heal Other gets a big discount from Vigilance anyway -- strike two. Add in any good personal reason not to take Absorb Pain (such as "I'd rather take another blast than another heal") and that's strike three.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
No it doesn't, Pain Dom does
and since when is PAIN Dom a defender powerset Mondo



Quote:
You don't need to "keep the team healed", since Empathy is not a healing-based powerset.
There is NO such thing as a Healing base set but with three strong heals it is by far the best available to a defender which is WHAT the OP asked for


Quote:
Maybe you should learn how to team up with a proper tank then
Maybe you shouldn't assume I dont. Then again how many teams have you been on that couldn't find a tank? Don't assume you know how I play this game . I am beginning to see why your rep is so glowing. I am not one of those that sets AURA to Auto and sits back doing nothing but supoposedly healing my team.. its a waste of END. I HEAL when its needed but suggesting no team will ever run into a situation where someone aggros two or even three mobs at once or gets confused in a COT cave and seperates before getting attack.. takes damage and will NEVER need to be healed it foolish. S%$t happens and when it does, to even the best teams, having someone along that can mend the wounds is not a horrible idea.


Quote:
Thermal's healing abilities are weak, it's a buff/debuff set, not a healing set.
Gee I could have sworn I covered that along with many of the good points of nuerous other powerset that also heal. It has a decent heal and a Rez with special benefits.

Quote:
Dark, kin and rad are not "healer" powersets. If you think they are, please stop playing forever.
THERE is NO such thing as a HEALER set but like the others they do have a HEAL and that is what the OP asked about. Do you actually read things or just post to express your own need to insult people?


Quote:
I'd actually suggest not taking your first few powers as an Emp. The only real healing ability you need is Heal Other.
And since at lower levels those are the only things abvailable what do YOU suggest the OP take? The fitness pool so he doesn't need to waste powers in the teens trying to get Stamina? HEALS are still important in the lower level game. When those powers are available and with the trend now to run +4 X 8 at times they become important at times even later on. I agree buffs and debuff outshine heals by far but at level 10 HOW many of them are actually available to a defender or controller? Or do you PL through those levels and have no clue what its like to be vulnerable? I still see post on the TF global for Master of STF Runs looking for a HEALER to help keep the tank alive while he keeps tries to occupy recluse while the rest of the team take out Pylons.


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

Posted

Great now we scared another player away from the game.

And OP, heals are always important, but no, you can't get away with a pure heals build like you can in... Actually I can't think of a game off-hand where I wouldn't want you buffing. The point is, do both


 

Posted

Learn to troll, kid. Id suggest reading /b/ for a month....