Refund, free time, anything?
By
Back_Blast,
Posted on: 2010-05-04 15:14 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
i'm considering cancelling my subscription too as CoH, in it's current state, is unplayable for me
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Yup, I'm talking about refunds because I paid it till July, had no idea all this **** would happen. And I'm asking because I know there have been buggy issues in the past (although I haven't been in any of those, I started in i9, ggame was always running smoothly)
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Originally Posted by Novaline
i'm considering cancelling my subscription too as CoH, in it's current state, is unplayable for me
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Sorry to hear you're experiencing technical difficulties. To answer your question, as far as I'm aware, there is no precedent for NCSoft to give refunds or free time due to issues like this. They do however have a technical support team available through a number of avenues to help you work through the problem.
K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.
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link.
| . YOUR MEMBERSHIP FEES AND FEES FOR ADDITIONAL FEATURES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, PAYMENT USING NCCOIN) FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INTERRUPTION OR UNAVAILABILITY OF SERVICE |
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You already addressed the key point here. Most of the issues are solvable by drivers update or just basic maintenance. Since this is the vast cause of issues with Issue 17, and since players were encouraged to join in an Open Beta and make sure they had the hardware /drivers to handle Issue 17, NCSoft / Paragon Studios is not really burdened with a responsibility for any free time or refunds.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Because sooo many people are having serious issues with i17 of all kinds (maybe 70% are 'solvable' via drivers update, defragmenting, etc), is there any precedent to NCSoft giving free time or refunds?
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After i17 (yes including the patch today) my game has become crappy looking and it's always been pretty to me, I use an Intel card. Since I had a day off, which I'd normally spend playing and doing other stuff, I spent the entire day testing user modded Intel GMA 950 drivers, using 3rd party programs to try to increase performance, well, basically hacks. Nothing worked since the Intel GMA optimization tools made by users are mostly focused for directX games and not OpenGL. So I rolled back to the official Intel drivers (most recent) and my game looks like manure (totally playable, no crashes, but gfx took a HUGE hit). You can see it here if you want, the screenies are comparing test in April to i16, but nothing has changed with the supposed 'Intel fix' both on test and now on live. I don't feel like playing when I can no longer differentiate between 'tights' and 'tights sleek' or 'leather' in my toons and the enemies. I've been in a terrible mood because of this, even being impolite to some people in the forums. Is there a precedent to NCSoft compensating users who had their game become screwed up, be it by gfx or crashes or whatever, in case these bugs last for more than a month? |
Second, it's not exactly an industry secret that Intel doesn't make GPU's. This is called Caveat emptor, or in english, beware buyer. Given that most modern games don't even bother attempting to support Intel's GPU's, that the developers take any time to do anything for Intel chipsets is a standout feature.
There's also an additional issue that the developers can only really test a limited amount of hardware. Unless you, personally, went onto the Test Server, and unless you, personally, filed a /bug report that the Intel Fix in the patch notes did not work for your Intel Graphics card, you really don't have any position to say anything. All you can do right now is file a /bug that the Intel fix didn't work as expected on your particular Intel chip, and wait for more tech work to be done.
There is yet another issue that is related to timing. One of the reasons why Ultra Mode was shipped 2-3 months in advance of the Going Rogue release was to give the developers time to work out all of the hardware kinks and engine issues across all of the various platform capabilities. I hate to use the term, but it's just common sense. There hasn't been an update to the City of Heroes game since the City of Villains expandalone that changed as many underlying game systems. I'm sorry, but if you expected everything to be absolutely perfect from day one on launch of Ultra Mode? And if you expect the publisher and developer to give you kickbacks for the product not being absolutely perfect? You don't understand how the game is developed. I'm not sorry for saying this, you don't.
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| I already delayed preordering GR because of that, since the 'Intel fix' did nothing for me and I'm getting hopeless. |
No? Shut up.
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| And I know many people with other cards (ATI, nvidia) are having all kinds of weird issues too, so it's not like I'm the only one complaining that my game is crappy after i17. |
Nvidia? Well, come on. Nvidia has the industry's worst drivers, period. I know at some point Nvidia was regarded as having a good driver record, but... that was several years ago.
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| I know I've been Q_Qing too much about this, but that's the only game I play nowadays, I was anxious for GR, and I got PMs from Intel GPU users who also are pissed off by the graphics degradation. One even mentioned he loved to show the game to his Xbox360 and PS3 owning friends because they found it looked so good even on the Intel GMA 950 and that now he'd be embarrassed to show it to anyone. |
Wow not only you post a lot of stupid stuff (like cloak of fear making people run) but you still manage to offend people who are just asking about something. I've yet to see a useful post by you excluding the one about video card issues where you basically just tell people to update, which is okay since a lot of people don't know how to do these things properly.
I'm not comparing my card to a PS3 or Xbox360. But friends who have those consoles found the game pretty on my card on i16. One guy who uses the same intel card AND owns a PS3 said the same thing, he liked how the game looked before i17.
And learn to read, if I were stating my game looked like a xbox360 game (basically, lying) I wouldn't have linked to screenies.
Oh.. Learn to read part 2 - I know i17 was released on April 28. I asked if I could get some compensation in case it lasts longer since my hope is fading.
Jesus, try to understand what I'm posting before offending. If you are not trying to help, gtfo, troll. I asked a question about refunds / free time (after a possible fix), I didn't come here to complain, I've tried everything to make my game look like before.
People like you should be banned from the forums. Good thing there's ignore.
Oh and KillBot 5000 and Memphis Bill, thanks a lot for the answers, I really appreciate it.
Lisa reads this thread sadly.
We need to get these bugs identified and squashed pronto....Tempers are being lost, feelings are being hurt, anger is rising.....not good.
But, the bright light at the end of the tunnel is I that am positive there will be fixes, and born from all this chaos will be a stable Going Rogue.
Just need patience, and communication, and reporting problems to the Tech Support at NCSoft...and giving Tech Support enough time to do their magic.
Lisa-Projecting a warm, healing aura over these forums.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Lol Lisa. Yeah I'm cranky because I was going to play a lot today - instead, tried to use all known third party (read user developed) Intel GPU boosters but as I said most are directed to DirectX games (I tried a modded driver on Perfect World International just for kicks once, and the game let me max it all out, much prettier than CoX except for the character models but only because I find the CoX toons very well done.. till i17 lol).
Anyway , Tex (redname) is aware of my troubles, I'm Q_Qing more than I 'should' since he knows about my issues, my gfx settings, my card, driver, etc, I showed it all to him.
But I'd love to play the game like it looked before... All this tweaking and rebooting after installing modded drivers and things like gmabooster, swiftshader, etc, and then turning it back to how it was before made me so cranky.
Well at least I helped some people with builds, one of the things I like to do in these forums. If I didn't have to pay to access here I'd help people anyway even during my 1 year break, I love messing with mids.
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Perhaps the OP is in the same situation I am, where the problem didn't exist on the Test server, and still does not exist on the test server. I can get on Test and do whatever I want, but on Live, LCTM starts up almost immediately when I travel across any zone with more than one other person in it.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Again. Did you actually log into the test server and file a bug report that it was not working on your platform?
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| No? Shut up. |
I don't think we're going to get any kind of reimbursement out of this, nor would I ask for it. I'm just going to keep doing what the nice NCSoft Support people ask me to do (maybe... if I can ever get to the Pingplotter dl page they pointed me to...) and hope something I give them helps isolate the problem.
Folks who are dismissing this as "small scale" need to remember that this is exactly how the "sync" bug started two or three years ago. A few people randomly de-syncing from the map and being told that the problem was with their ISP/router/modem/whatever because no one could figure out what was going on and it wasn't consistently replicable within the game. I know, because I was one of those "few people" then, too (different computer, not limited to wireless). The problem got much bigger and more widespread before it was resolved.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Actually Earth, afaik the test server is the same as live now. I didn't file a bug report in test because the minute the Intel patch went to test I logged in there to verify, said my shader options were still greyed out (like Live after i17 and now after the patch) and redname Tex asked me for screenies, my card, driver and I provided him the info (even with a screen of the Intel website checker stating my driver is up to date and showing my card model) and the ingame screens.|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Perhaps the OP is in the same situation I am, where the problem didn't exist on the Test server, and still does not exist on the test server. I can get on Test and do whatever I want, but on Live, LCTM starts up almost immediately when I travel across any zone with more than one other person in it.
You seem like a generally helpful person. This sounds a lot like you're getting burned out on the current set of issues. |
je_saist may be helpful in this section (tech support), but he's known for posting wrong information and being rude in the other sections. Just an example from other board (Tankers), I don't want to start a flame in this topic, especially since I decided to ignore him:
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
There's still people replying to je_saist ?
Dude has been consistently wrong on every post of his since he joined these boards. Every single one. I don't know if it means anything in another language, but I find it ironic that his name looks like a misspelling of "I know" in french. In other words, Rangle is right. |
EarthWyrm,
I don't have any opinion or contribution on the current topic.
All I'd like to say is that I truly appreciate your courteous approach here when many would lash out. That's very mature and professional. I respect you for it, and wish there were a host more like you. 
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When hasn't that happened? People are constantly having problems. If the problems just so happen to occure soon after a patch, people blame the patch. It's the very reason the word 'coincidence' was made.| And I know many people with other cards (ATI, nvidia) are having all kinds of weird issues too, so it's not like I'm the only one complaining that my game is crappy after i17. |
This particular problem isn't likely to be one of those cases, I'm just saying that the chorus of "OMG Issue X broke my computer!" is downright expected.
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Yeah you may be right, I know lot of people who think they know their computers well and when I go check out lots of things are out of date, the computer is full of spyware and viruses.... Even people who work in the field (I'm a health provider, nothing to do with computers).|
Originally Posted by Zloth
When hasn't that happened? People are constantly having problems. If the problems just so happen to occure soon after a patch, people blame the patch. It's the very reason the word 'coincidence' was made.
This particular problem isn't likely to be one of those cases, I'm just saying that the chorus of "OMG Issue X broke my computer!" is downright expected. |
I always knew how to update stuff and make things run smooth so I never had a problem with this game since I started (i9), even though I'm a mac user since 2000 and use a Windows partition just for this game (CoX Mac client runs badly on my machine, Transgaming emulated crap, not native like WoW's Mac client).
And when I have one it's something the devs don't have a solution yet lol. I spent the day going after those user modded drivers and 'booster' programs.
Still don't feel like playing and crying looking at the game, but at least I'm in a good mood, my football (or as you guys call, soccer) team won in the Libertadores Cup (the South American equivalent to the Uefa Champions League)
skip money returns i want free server tokens :P
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I don't know what je_saist said in that other thread about Tankers, but everything je_saist said in this thread is correct, albeit in a not-so-nice way.
Originally Posted by Nihilii  There's still people replying to je_saist ? Dude has been consistently wrong on every post of his since he joined these boards. Every single one. I don't know if it means anything in another language, but I find it ironic that his name looks like a misspelling of "I know" in french. In other words, Rangle is right. |
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Kioshi, I hope television is able to solve your issues, but keep in mind (if I remember your specs properly) that you are running the game on an unsupported platform (bootcamp) and on an unsupported video card (the GMA 950, see: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...0&postcount=27 where Ghost Falcon affirms this).
I think it would be great if they extended support to the GMA 950 as I have a friend who uses it to play when he does. Still, that is definitely caveat emptor.
Also, I think they should offer game time on a per-user basis, but I am not sure your situation calls for it, since you can play on unsupported tech.
Still, good luck getting things resolved.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Partially correct. He wrote a lot of plain stupid stuff and assumed things wrongly.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I don't know what je_saist said in that other thread about Tankers, but everything je_saist said in this thread is correct, albeit in a not-so-nice way.
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Basically he agreed with me when I wrote that at least 70% of the problems are solvable because lots of users don't update their drivers properly, ok that's probably correct.
Then saying my card is 'mocked', ok, I don't care, I like how my game looked and it's totally unrelated to the question (which was answered, about possibility of free time and refunds). It's not like I'm asking to play Bioshock 2 and complaining it doesn't support my integrated card, especially since CoX always ran smoothly here since i9 when I started playing.
But... Telling me to shut up because I hadn't filed a bug report without knowing I've been sending all my data to Tex (he asked me for screenies of the game and all the gfx settings, about drivers, card model) since i17 went to test before the patch wasn't exactly correct.
And it was completely rude to call me a liar when I said friends who have Xboxes found my game pretty (btw got a PM from another Intel GPU user who said the same thing, he liked how the game looked on his machine and he owns a PS3, he also added his friends found the game pretty looking but now he'd be embarrassed to show it to anyone).
The troll (je_saist) assumed I was comparing the looks of my Intel board gfx to a PS3 or a Xbox360 (I'm not delusional, and if I wanted to lie and say my game looks like a Xbox360 one I wouldn't have posted a link with my before/after i16/i17 screenies in the OP, as any one with two brain cells would see I'd be making this up) - that was flat out wrong and showed complete lack of reading comprehension, as I made it clear that people with those consoles simply liked how my game looked, nobody said 'OMG it's better than God of War 3'.
He also assumed I thought i17 was released over a month ago when I asked 'what if the bug persists for a month, may they give me a free month or something?'. Lack of reading comprehension #2.
The guy simply decided to insult me with no reason when all I did was ask about refunds/free time because I liked my game's graphics and now I loathe them.
And yeah most of his posts in the archetypes/powers sections I've seen are bad advice or just flat out wrong as Nihili said. I won't elaborate on that because I went back to my usual good mood and I never pick fights over the internet as it's a waste of time, plus it derails the thread.
All in all, I just wanna draw attention to this problem because I know lots of people who play using this specific card (intel 940-965 family) and complained ingame (most of my ingame buddies don't even read the forums) or via PMs to me because they saw my QQing
, the GMA950 used to be a very popular vid card in notebooks as you must know, and maybe if possible I can help Tex and company with the data I sent. If I didn't love the game, I'd simply go play another mmo (I tried when I got burned out, but none of them has the fast action this one has - maybe CO, but CO won't run well here and I heard so many bad things about that game, not to mention I didn't like the screenies and videos I saw).
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Sermon, bootcamp is just running Windows on an Intel Core duo computer that just happens to be a mac, not running Windows simultaneously with the Mac OS X system (which I can do too via Parallels or VMWare but of course a game won't run well with two systems booted at the same time). To use bootcamp, I have to reboot from Mac OS X to Windows. I can run Linux here too if I want and it performs just the same as any intel core duo PC.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
Kioshi, I hope television is able to solve your issues, but keep in mind (if I remember your specs properly) that you are running the game on an unsupported platform (bootcamp) and on an unsupported video card (the GMA 950, see: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...0&postcount=27 where Ghost Falcon affirms this).
I think it would be great if they extended support to the GMA 950 as I have a friend who uses it to play when he does. Still, that is definitely caveat emptor. Also, I think they should offer game time on a per-user basis, but I am not sure your situation calls for it, since you can play on unsupported tech. Still, good luck getting things resolved. |
Bootcamp isn't exactly another platform, all the programs I ever ran in my winxp partition worked, never had issues of any kind (Office, games that make heavy use of DirectX like Perfect World International, LoTRO). So it's like I'm on a Windows computer using the windows client.
And G. Falcon affirms: 'Please note that if you are using an Intel GMA 950 video card, that card is not supported by the City of Heroes Macintosh client.
This is noted on the City of Heroes Macintosh Edition product page, as well as on the NCsoft Store.'
I don't use the Macintosh client, I use the windows XP client. I tested the mac client once out of curiosity (because I knew the intel gma wasn't supported from the beginning on the Mac OS X client) and it really does not work with my card. My guess is that the system reqs are higher because unlike the WoW mac client it's emulated via transgaming - so it's a slideshow even on minimum gfx settings, toons' heads and legs missing depending on the costume, several scenario flaws - while on the winXP client, since 2007, I run smoothly with world detail at high, char detail very high, aniso filtering 2x/smooth, shader low with world bumpmaps, etc. Never had to tone down settings on rikti raids or grandville (the usual problematic areas for a lot of people) even when half the team was complaining about framerate dropping a lot.
To answer the question in your subject line: No. No, and no.
If you read your EULA... you'd know that already. Please post in this very area asking for assistance if you haven't already, read up in the Knowledge Base (if you haven't already)... ask friends who play for assistance (if... you get the idea), etc., ad nauseum.
DO NOT post in here whining for a refund you aren't going to get, nor should expect. It is your responsibility to make sure YOUR computer is going to work with the product they release, not the other way around.
Had I the problems you discuss, yes, I would be frustrated... but I would NOT even THINK of asking for a refund, because I am not DUE one. Period.
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My question about the refund has been answered in a polite manner unlike you did, thank you. Or do you mean people can't ask stuff in the forums like 'omg how does this power work?' or 'Why am I missing my attacks i slotted 6 dmg in fire ball'. What do you answer, 'go read the power description or City of Data nubcake'?. I just try to help, this is a game, people don't read everything related to it. You can see my post history outside of the tech forums, I never said 'DON'T POST THIS HERE' like you did so rudely. If you don't like my thread, don't post on it or ignore me.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
DO NOT post in here whining for a refund you aren't going to get, nor should expect. It is your responsibility to make sure YOUR computer is going to work with the product they release, not the other way around.
Had I the problems you discuss, yes, I would be frustrated... but I would NOT even THINK of asking for a refund, because I am not DUE one. Period. |
Obviously it's my responsibility for a game to work for me. It would be my responsibility if I tried to install Fallout 3 here and found the hardware isn't up to the game, I wouldn't have the right to complain.
Now playing a game for two years smoothly and enjoying it on a supported video card (remember i play on windows), and having its graphics turn to crap because of a patch overnight... How's that my fault? Everything is up to date here, I always update my system and drivers, nothing more I can do.
Sure show your e-peen and all if it helps your self esteem, but I reserve the right to not agree with you since it's not a new game that I've been testing for just a few days.
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QFT.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
My question about the refund has been answered in a polite manner unlike you did, thank you. Or do you mean people can't ask stuff in the forums like 'omg how does this power work?' or 'Why am I missing my attacks i slotted 6 dmg in fire ball'. What do you answer, 'go read the power description or City of Data nubcake'?. I just try to help, this is a game, people don't read everything related to it. You can see my post history outside of the tech forums, I never said 'DON'T POST THIS HERE' like you did so rudely. If you don't like my thread, don't post on it or ignore me.
Obviously it's my responsibility for a game to work for me. It would be my responsibility if I tried to install Fallout 3 here and found the hardware isn't up to the game, I wouldn't have the right to complain. Now playing a game for two years smoothly and enjoying it on a supported video card (remember i play on windows), and having its graphics turn to crap because of a patch overnight... How's that my fault? Everything is up to date here, I always update my system and drivers, nothing more I can do. Sure show your e-peen and all if it helps your self esteem, but I reserve the right to not agree with you since it's not a new game that I've been testing for just a few days. |
Lately, there's been an onslaught of rude posts by some of the usually more helpful players in this area of the forums. Sorry you had to experience it. Maybe they bought their corn flakes at the same store
We'll see....
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Yeah I'm finding it a bit weird to be honest, because if I go ask if I should six slot brawl with damage on a controller I know most answers will be helpful no matter if my reg date says 2004, 2007 or 2010. Maybe it's the tech forums? I never came here because I never had problems and don't have knowledge to help on things like ATI/nvidia related stuff which are the most common here, or answer if some video card will run Bloom and etc.|
Originally Posted by Flameshot
QFT.
Lately, there's been an onslaught of rude posts by some of the usually more helpful players in this area of the forums. Sorry you had to experience it. Maybe they bought their corn flakes at the same store |
Anyway, who knows what's happening. I knew je_saist was rude already so I wasn't surprised, but Thirty_Seven seemed nice from other posts I saw in other forums.
But it's the internets, where people are rude to you for no significant reason, I'm kinda used to it (but not in the CoX forums to be honest, I think it's the first time people are being rude to me here, and as you can see I have a lot of posts lol).
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Thank you for saying so. I appreciate that.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Anyway, who knows what's happening. I knew je_saist was rude already so I wasn't surprised, but Thirty_Seven seemed nice from other posts I saw in other forums.
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I guess I should explain myself a bit instead of defending my original post like I had here in response to your (next to) last post.
The issue that got my goat was asking for a refund. My BF is a restaurant manager, and is constantly regailing me with stories about snotty customers demanding refunds and such. And, frankly, I find it disgusting. We have had long discussions about how attitudes like that would never fly in any other market.
For example, say someone goes to Kohl's and buys a shirt, goes home, wears the shirt for a week and then returns it demanding a refund AND a new shirt. The manager is unlikely to comply, especially when he notices it is stained and hasn't been washed.
Soooo, I think I did a little "transference" (though that term doesn't apply directly) when I saw your title. I apologize for my somewhat arrogant and flippant reply.
P.S. It's a hyphen, not an underscore.
Because sooo many people are having serious issues with i17 of all kinds (maybe 70% are 'solvable' via drivers update, defragmenting, etc), is there any precedent to NCSoft giving free time or refunds?
After i17 (yes including the patch today) my game has become crappy looking and it's always been pretty to me, I use an Intel card. Since I had a day off, which I'd normally spend playing and doing other stuff, I spent the entire day testing user modded Intel GMA 950 drivers, using 3rd party programs to try to increase performance, well, basically hacks. Nothing worked since the Intel GMA optimization tools made by users are mostly focused for directX games and not OpenGL. So I rolled back to the official Intel drivers (most recent) and my game looks like manure (totally playable, no crashes, but gfx took a HUGE hit). You can see it here if you want, the screenies are comparing test in April to i16, but nothing has changed with the supposed 'Intel fix' both on test and now on live.
I don't feel like playing when I can no longer differentiate between 'tights' and 'tights sleek' or 'leather' in my toons and the enemies. I've been in a terrible mood because of this, even being impolite to some people in the forums.
Is there a precedent to NCSoft compensating users who had their game become screwed up, be it by gfx or crashes or whatever, in case these bugs last for more than a month?
I already delayed preordering GR because of that, since the 'Intel fix' did nothing for me and I'm getting hopeless.
And I know many people with other cards (ATI, nvidia) are having all kinds of weird issues too, so it's not like I'm the only one complaining that my game is crappy after i17.
I know I've been Q_Qing too much about this, but that's the only game I play nowadays, I was anxious for GR, and I got PMs from Intel GPU users who also are pissed off by the graphics degradation. One even mentioned he loved to show the game to his Xbox360 and PS3 owning friends because they found it looked so good even on the Intel GMA 950 and that now he'd be embarrassed to show it to anyone.