My box is different. My box is pretty . . . and it's MINE!
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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True enough but it makes dahjees range theory more wrong. Thats also without taking into account the fact that range is so random after you cross a certain amount. Assuming people with capped stealth dahjee's range is more than his perception in some cases, which is really retarded considering he has fly, which is a whole lot slower than ss and sj. And please do not give me a lecture on your antics with teleport(dodgy).
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Originally Posted by Quatermain
Same story, different box.
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The problem with determining whether range is DR'd or not lies with how powers are slotted - if you've slotted range into your powers (Centrioles, range IOs, whatever), that power will certainly have a shorter range in PvP because of DR on the slotted enhancements (that's also why your heals heal for less even without heal decay). We can't assume that since the real numbers tool reports our range bonus (from set bonuses or Boost Range) as the same as in PvE, range doesn't get DR'd, because damage and recharge are two examples of cases where the real numbers tool doesn't account for DR. I think the only way to really test that is to check attack ranges with and without DR using attacks that have no slotted range enhancements.
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Originally Posted by PowerFlame
Range is not DRd
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
WAIT WAIT WAIT
dahjee is miconscience?
lolololololololololololololololol
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warhamster did tests back when i13 first hit.|
Originally Posted by macskull
The problem with determining whether range is DR'd or not lies with how powers are slotted - if you've slotted range into your powers (Centrioles, range IOs, whatever), that power will certainly have a shorter range in PvP because of DR on the slotted enhancements (that's also why your heals heal for less even without heal decay). We can't assume that since the real numbers tool reports our range bonus (from set bonuses or Boost Range) as the same as in PvE, range doesn't get DR'd, because damage and recharge are two examples of cases where the real numbers tool doesn't account for DR. I think the only way to really test that is to check attack ranges with and without DR using attacks that have no slotted range enhancements.
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DR hits range enhacements, it just does it much in the way that it does with other enhancements (letting ED do the work before hitting it hard).
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A few weeks back we were testing taunt duration in the arena with DR on. Taunt with no slots had the longest duration. Not sure how the dev's consider that logical or not broken. To get an accurate test on range though you would probably have to test it with 1, 2, 3 and 0 slots to get any accurate numbers. Then of course you would have to test it with varied amounts of +range set bonuses in the build. (How does DR effect set bonuses such as range? I personally don't know and would appreciate an answer if someone does?)| I think the only way to really test that is to check attack ranges with and without DR using attacks that have no slotted range enhancements. |
Testing really isn't necessary though. With or without DR the numbers he quoted are inaccurate.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
I can aggro 6-7 heroes at a time with AoEs and fear no retribution
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Why oh Why do you keep saying you can aggro 6-7 heroes at a time, because this isn't the first time you have said something similar to that.
We are not the games AI, we don't get aggro'd. We either call you as the spike target or we don't. Just because you throw some weak AoE out there does not mean that anyone that gets hit with it will immediately turn from the called target and attack you. And all Micon does is tp a character up into the air so they drop right back down again to continue in attacking whatever target was the target to begin with so I really don't see how this is "contributing" to your team. You should be down throwing holds for any stalkers on your team to get off an easy AS.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
DR takes your bottom line number, after all slotting, set bonuses, buffs, accolades, whatever, and then applies the formula:
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FinalValue = OriginalValue * (1 - ABS(ATAN(A * OriginalValue)) * 2/pi * B) Where: FinalValue is the value of the buff after applying DR OriginalValue is the value of the buff before applying DR ABS(x) is the Absolute value function ATAN(x) is the Arctan function A and B are parameters set per Archetype, per Attribute, and per Aspect. This means that there can theoretically be several thousand diminishing returns curves. However, as noted in Arcanaville's guide, there are certain rules governing the values of A and B. A and B default to 0.33 and 0.80 for most archetypes and attributes. However, the values can vary widely. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by Musey
True enough but it makes dahjees range theory more wrong.
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If it wasn't clear I meant my theory about ignoring the 5 cap on set bonuses to get 172' vs Fleas theory of ignoring ED.
People can make mistakes, and I do frequently, but no matter how it is sliced some very basic game knowledge is absent to reach 172' on an 80' range power. Making one wonder what else is missing.
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When you think far enough outside the box, impossible things become reality. Same as how a really bad flying dom can become an amazing PvP'er that totally turns the tides of zone PvP.|
Originally Posted by Quatermain
no matter how it is sliced some very basic game knowledge is absent to reach 172' on an 80' range power.
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Want to learn how to do this yourself? Simple. When anybody says anything resembling reality, you simply say "no, it's the opposite of that". When people provide concrete evidence that you're wrong, you simply say "no, you're wrong and I'm right". Or, in some cases it helps to simply ignore those replies and pretend they were never brought up. Then a week later you can start the same argument with someone else.
Wow. So much speculation and doubt. It kinda sucks being the only objective person here on the boards. Where to start... perhaps with the dumb stuff, and I'll work my way through as much misinformation as possible. Don't worry there's something for almost everyone!
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Why? My attacks work up close too.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
you have to be 172 -213 feet above a target to engage them.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Meaning even the dumb regen crowd can reach you with whatever 50-80 foot range attack they have as well as any melee attack they want. Granted its going to be one attack at a time..... buuuuuuuut if its something like webnade or something with -fly they'll get a few more attacks in after that.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Blasters need to jump a massive 12 to 44 feet to hit you.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
You may not realize it but most of the time you are well out of the fight compared to Dom's on the ground who play a much more active role, especially in the open zone.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
You die less because of how often you are out of range from the action
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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
... we didn't A)pretend our occasional successes made us PvP forum gods
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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
... B)gave advice to people based on our occasional successes only to have them get farmed
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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
... and C)when we were met with legitimate counters to our inexperienced vision, we tested the counters and moved on.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
1. You are normally flying way to high to contribute much of anything or even impact what is going on in the zone.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
3. The frequency of those holds/attacks are probably about 10% of what the average dom/troller with SJ/SS manage to do on the ground.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
4. The only reason you may die less than the average person on the ground is simply that you are out of reach a great deal of the time.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
5. If you die 80% less often than the average joe but you contributed 90% less than the average joe then you still pretty much phail.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
6. Claiming powers to be "situationally" good in an enviroment where you have no control over anything is a moot point. Situational powers or techniques are only effective when you have some control.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Unless I'm missing something, 5 x 7.5% Range increases + 3 range slotted in an 80 foot range Grav ability is only 157 Range.
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Originally Posted by Quatermain
Obviously he slotted 7.5 times 7.5% range bonuses.
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MOVING ON....
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Ok sure Mac... I just put a waypoint on a friend and had them stand next to a pillbox turrent while I went through attacks. I'm certain whatever your approach was though was more confusing than mine and probably required a calculator. For that reason I'm also certain your findings will be welcome here and believed here no matter what. |
Originally Posted by macskull
The problem with determining whether range is DR'd or not lies with how powers are slotted - if you've slotted range into your powers (Centrioles, range IOs, whatever), that power will certainly have a shorter range in PvP because of DR on the slotted enhancements (that's also why your heals heal for less even without heal decay). We can't assume that since the real numbers tool reports our range bonus (from set bonuses or Boost Range) as the same as in PvE, range doesn't get DR'd, because damage and recharge are two examples of cases where the real numbers tool doesn't account for DR. I think the only way to really test that is to check attack ranges with and without DR using attacks that have no slotted range enhancements.
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How neccessary is it really to worry about what happens to range bonuses in PvP when they only work in PvP? Just sayin.
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Originally Posted by iLostCountBarrier
dahjee is miconscience?
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"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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LOL true and not true... I like to call it.. PI. The better the player the more predictable they become. Trust me... Players get aggro'd, pulled, suffer from fear affect (running away) as much as or more than dumb AI does. if you haven't realized this then i'd encourage you to start playing versus players... and not just against their toons.|
Originally Posted by Psyrene
We are not the games AI, we don't get aggro'd.
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
We either call you as the spike target or we don't. Just because you throw some weak AoE out there does not mean that anyone that gets hit with it will immediately turn from the called target and attack you.
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
all Micon does is tp a character up into the air so they drop right back down again to continue in attacking whatever target was the target to begin with so I really don't see how this is "contributing" to your team. You should be down throwing holds for any stalkers on your team to get off an easy AS.
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"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I didn't read what you posted but it's probably lol
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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If you had any credibility at all, it would have gone out the window after this. I've not seen you admit to a SINGLE mistake on here. Not one. And you've made a lot of them.|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
I happily admit whatever mistakes I make in my posts.
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Not to worry though, you already had zero credibility, so you should be ok.
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Perhaps you didn't read the first line of my post.| lol that's nonsense sorry. Next time get a jetpack and temp TP and come up to my level... and see how I contribute. |
I didn't post these past 2 weeks, instead I watched you in zone. Used my little jetpack in zone to see what all the hype was about. I dont' have anything against you personally, in fact before this tread was started I didn't have a clue who you were. I observed you. You may or may not be a decent pvp'r on some toons. On your flying toon, not so much.
You are right at times I didn't contribute much myself while checking you out. I wasn't on a team sucking up rewards from others efforts nor am I bragging that I was contributing at the time.
That same toon you play could contribute 90% more to the zone and to teams with SJ/SS/accro. YOu would most likely die 90% more often too because you haven't learned any real evasion with fly. Eventually you would learn. If not atleast you would be actually experiencing some real pvp and contributing between hospital runs.
I may not be the best pvp'r out there but even I know fly=phail in a pvp zone. You either have to fly so high you can't contribute much and kill even less or you fly low and are in the battle and die way more than the average joe because you don't have enough speed behind your travel powers to evade.
Well, I just ran into the great Dahjee for the first time. At least for the first time since I actually heard of him on here. Here is the summary of what happened.
I log into RV on my tank. It's kind of not busy, so I run around looking for someone to attack. All of a sudden, I'm held....with nobody around me. I get kind of worried. But nothing happens. The hold wears off in a couple secs, and I start moving again. Still nobody around me. Then it happens. I start getting hit with the ultimate attack chain of doom. I believe it was something like psi dart > psi dart > psi dart > psi dart.....but I could be wrong. There could have been another awesome attack in the middle.
I look up, and there is Misconcience flying above me. Sure enough, he was pretty high. His monster attack chain takes me to 98% health. No joke, it did literally nothing. With my 100% SO, zero accolade build, I regened it in about 3 seconds. Then I jump up to attack him, and he flies away.
About 2 minutes later I see him again. He's hovering in 1 spot, getting attacked by 1 guy. If he had SS/SJ, he could have at least attempted to evade. Instead, he's literally just hovering there in 1 spot, losing more and more health. I laugh, because I played TP toons long before him, and I know what he's doing. He's spamming his TP, desperatly hoping for one miss from his attacker, so he can get away. But there's no miss. In fact, I jump up to him and hit him with a fossilize.....it takes him to like 5% health. The other guy finishes him off with 1 more attack.
I say something in bcast about his TP skills being incredible, but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it falls on deaf ears. By the time I'm done typing, I'm pretty sure he's already logged. I don't see him again.
Summary: Dahjee really is an amazing PvP'er.
Hey please don't pretend to have spent 2 weeks observing me in a zone... when your only conclusion is a made up percentage based on absolutely nothing that can be measured... and summed up with statements filled with biased opinions.
TPing ins't based on speed but distance. This distance whether you can wrap your head around it or not makes up for speed... Next time do give me the honor of letting me know your stalking me and I will be happy to team with you and show you better than i can tell you.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I killed him about 5 times when we base camped them. 
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Tankers are good for filling my Dom bar.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Well, I just ran into the great Dahjee for the first time. At least for the first time since I actually heard of him on here. Here is the summary of what happened.
I log into RV on my tank. It's kind of not busy, so I run around looking for someone to attack. All of a sudden, I'm held....with nobody around me. I get kind of worried. But nothing happens. The hold wears off in a couple secs, and I start moving again. Still nobody around me. Then it happens. I start getting hit with the ultimate attack chain of doom. I believe it was something like psi dart > psi dart > psi dart > psi dart.....but I could be wrong. There could have been another awesome attack in the middle. I look up, and there is Misconcience flying above me. Sure enough, he was pretty high. His monster attack chain takes me to 98% health. No joke, it did literally nothing. With my 100% SO, zero accolade build, I regened it in about 3 seconds. Then I jump up to attack him, and he flies away. About 2 minutes later I see him again. He's hovering in 1 spot, getting attacked by 1 guy. If he had SS/SJ, he could have at least attempted to evade. Instead, he's literally just hovering there in 1 spot, losing more and more health. I laugh, because I played TP toons long before him, and I know what he's doing. He's spamming his TP, desperatly hoping for one miss from his attacker, so he can get away. But there's no miss. In fact, I jump up to him and hit him with a fossilize.....it takes him to like 5% health. The other guy finishes him off with 1 more attack. I say something in bcast about his TP skills being incredible, but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it falls on deaf ears. By the time I'm done typing, I'm pretty sure he's already logged. I don't see him again. Summary: Dahjee really is an amazing PvP'er. |
Actually what you witnessed what me lagging only to get disc'ed. Sorry to dissappoint. I hung around after all the heroes left RV. It was busy when I logged on. Only lasted for a few minutes though. go figure.
I do love the way you all go about changing subjects, and making things personal to save face.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
lol right, of course.
Wouldn't expect anything less from you, genius outside the box thinking amazing PvP'er!
Maybe I'll run into you again. Then you can spam a few more tier 1 attacks and die.
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Adding two 10%'s to 5 7.5's and 3 level 50 common range still violates the stated 172, though not by a lot, and perhaps my fun poking was unwarranted. However, given your stated slotting on GD for -2', you could ED cap the damage instead of having no damage enhancement, which is not insignificant.
| Hold PvP IOs grant a 10% range bonus when three slotted btw... |
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That's what you do. POORLY.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
Actually what you witnessed what me lagging only to get disc'ed. Sorry to dissappoint. I hung around after all the heroes left RV. It was busy when I logged on. Only lasted for a few minutes though. go figure.
I do love the way you all go about changing subjects, and making things personal to save face. |
The problem is that he is not accounting for ED. ED reduces 76.5 to 58.5 which puts you right around your 157.