Finally, all AT's to 50!
Were you using the Numpad binds when playing your Mastermind?
Congrats! I just reached that goal last month myself It's a pretty big milestone if you ask me.
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Heh, after 6 years I've still to get a Tanker, Blaster, Peacebringer, Warshade, or Stalker to 50. I'm getting close on the Blaster though (got one sitting at 48), and the Warshade is slowly getting there (39), but the rest are 30 or below.
For me it's due to a combination of altaholism (not as bad as some, but enough to split/spread my attention), never really farming or Plvling, and just preferring other ATs (I have multiple controllers, VEATs and MMs at 50).
Congrats! Nearly at that point myself, though it was less a project than a "hey, look at that, should try to finish those last ATs" goal. (Last one I have to go is my Corrupter, in the high 40s, with a lead pipe. Er, wait...)
Of course, I have multiples of some ATs, and I never want to touch others (mostly the VEATs, Bane and Widow specifically, but my Scrapper was just 'meh" to me as well) again.
Think I'm currently at one of each vill AT (except corr, with a second dom really close,) 2 tanks, 3 defenders, 2 controllers (maybe 3... or one that's really close,) 2 blasters, 1 scrapper, 1 WS and 2 PB (one triform, one that finished human only.)
Mastermind - Yeesh...Even before I made one of these I really didn't wanna team with them. They slowed down my computer, clogged up cave maps, and created utter chaos. But in my quest to understand them, I made one. I probably made a mistake choosing Ninja's, but I was really sick of seeing robots. Solo or on a team of 1 or 2, it wasn't a big a nightmare as I thought. But on a bigger team, especially with a second or third Mastermind on the team, it was sheer terror. Random aggro everywhere, tons of dead ninjas. Despite my best efforts, they rarely seemed to honor my commands. Thanks the gods for the MM secondaries. I think I'm going to make a petless MM when demons come out. 5/10 |
Yes, I was using macro's, binds, you name it, the Ninja's just didn't like me. And I think the main problem with Masterminds is that it doesn't mesh with my playstyle. I like to move from one mob to the next without having to wonder about Ninja number 2 aggroing the wrong group. For some Masterminds with the skill and the drive, I'm sure its just magical, but it just wasn't for me. And yea, I'm sure a huge step in that is the Ninja's fault. Maybe one day I'll have the goal of getting every power set in the game to 50, but I hope not...
Thanks for all the congrats too!
P.S. KayJMM, get back here with my stalker!
I have the same thing as regards Defenders and Scrappers. I love being the backup and making the rest of the team (even more) awesome, but sometimes it's just nice to get in the bad guy's face and punch him.
Character index
Gratz.
I am absolutely amazed you stuck with Ninjas all the way to 50. I have 2 lvl 50 mm's and neither of them are ninjas.
Getting all ATs to 50 is quite an accomplishment (as long as it's not done by powerleveling).
I don't think I'll ever get my Kheldians to 50. My Peacebringer is at 28 and my Warshade is at 26. My Arachnos Soldier is also off to a slow start, still at 26 (while my Widow is doing much better at 37). I'm also going slow with my lead Corruptor, who is at 32.
My lead Dominator is doing well at 42, my lead Defender is at 46, and I have one each of the seven other ATs at 50. I'd like to get all ten of the main ATs to 50 someday, plus my Widow, but I'm just not motivated to play the Kheldians or the Arachnos Soldier much.
Congrats, Utopia. I achieved my goal of getting each control primary to 50 about a month ago and thought of writing up something like this. After reading yours maybe I will.
As for controls, you hit on something that I really like about them. They really utilize both their primary and secondary to fill their role. Some combinations fit together really well. Others don't. There's a lot of variety in the way they play. Speaking for the two you created, they are slow movers before 32. Others do a bit better there though. I have an Ice/Rad as well and I find it monstrous for halting incoming damage.
I also shared your feelings on dominators. It felt really odd to me when I changed to a dominator, but I'm slowly leveling one of those up too. It really is a different role than a controller plays, but I'm having more fun with it now that I've recognized that.
Congrats!
I'm nearly there myself - got all the hero ATs there a while back, but I have too many alts going, so the remaining few villain ATs are going to take a bit yet.
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Congrats, Utopia. I achieved my goal of getting each control primary to 50 about a month ago and thought of writing up something like this. After reading yours maybe I will.
As for controls, you hit on something that I really like about them. They really utilize both their primary and secondary to fill their role. Some combinations fit together really well. Others don't. There's a lot of variety in the way they play. Speaking for the two you created, they are slow movers before 32. Others do a bit better there though. I have an Ice/Rad as well and I find it monstrous for halting incoming damage. I also shared your feelings on dominators. It felt really odd to me when I changed to a dominator, but I'm slowly leveling one of those up too. It really is a different role than a controller plays, but I'm having more fun with it now that I've recognized that. |
Congrats Utopia!
(This means you've unlocked the Jedi class, right?)
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Congratulations. I'm still a looong ways off on my project, but I was definitely planning on writing up a guide of sorts when I was done.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on all the control primaries. I think plant control was easier for me to use as a dominator because Spirit Tree let me feel a little more supporty...
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(Still cannot *stand* Illusion.)
Good. ****ing. God.
Who has the time to do that? I'm hard-pressed to get my villain to 50 for a grand total of 2 50s, let alone one of each AT, and I've been playing since I4.
Peacebringer... I never did get into the shapeshifting, which is what a lot of people swear by, but human form worked out pretty well.
... Warshade - This one had some really unique powers. Unfortunately, too many. |
Dominator... The control is nice, but some seem lost without the help of a defender secondary. Plus there are a lot of powers that are really endurance heavy and instead of transference I get to use firebreath? Not as helpful...
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Mastermind... I probably made a mistake choosing Ninja's... I think I'm going to make a petless MM when demons come out.
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With ranged pets, you can often ignore trying to control them at all. Just turn on Bodyguard mode and jump into the spawn yourself. You'll get attacked, absorb it via BG, and your pets will unleash hell. I love my Thugs/Dark, too -- I left my computer during a Malta mission to go eat dinner, and I came back to find that I had defeated 3 ambushes without a single pet dying.
With regard to a petless Mastermind: I would generally advise against it. Yes, it can be done, and yes some team leaders will let you join as a petless Mastermind, but in general petless Mastermind gets weak attacks (weaker than Defenders, and you don't even get a full set of 9), moderate buff/debuffs (similar to Controllers and Corruptors, though if you play Dark Miasma, Twilight Grasp's radius is also nerfed), and no inherent power (since the MM inherent entirely depends on henchmen). HOWEVER. Since seeing Demon Summoning I wouldn't necessarily take the same stance. In fact, I created a DS/Pain MM on Test specifically because Pain has a number of low-level powers that I'm not especially interested in, so that I could skip them in favor of the whip attacks -- which are actually useful in my opinion, unlike the other MM attacks.
Stalker... There are so many things on a full team that hinders my AS, which is my bread and butter and made it all the more frustrating... Also, despite trying many times to use it and understand it, I still don't know what the hell Smoke Flash is doing.
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As for Smoke Flash: It's like Placate from your primary, except that it's AoE and it doesn't put you back into Hidden status. Each enemy you affect will ignore you until either the effect wears off, or you attack them. Unfortunately, it doesn't Hide you, meaning you can't get another AS or automatic critical. Remember the difference between the effect "placate" (enemy ignores you), and the power [Placate] (which applies "placate" to a single target and puts you back in Hide).
Arachnos Soldier... the Bane Spider is what I really found fantastic.
... Blood Widow... Only downside is she uses endurance like nobody's business. A Night Widow is pretty sturdy and does decent burst damage... They trade some damage of the Soldier to be more survivable. |
Bane Spiders and Night Widows have a lot in common with Stalkers. Perhaps it was just an issue with powerset selection for you?
Also, I hear ya on endurance consumption. Then again, my Fortunata is running Tactical Training: Maneuvers, Tactical Training: Assault, Tactical Training: Leadership, Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics, and Indomitable Will, plus Hasten on autofire, plus near-perma Mind Link, plus spamming Psychic Scream, Psionic Tornado, and Psychic Wail every chance I get. Oh, and I often forget to turn off Super Speed in combat (after I lie in wait in the middle of the spawn with SS+Celerity, opening with Psy Wail)
Aww, I like Illusion
Granted, I had a big issue with robots until level 41...
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I see you never got into Blappers (a Blaster's melee damage outstrips their ranged damage, and their melee comes from their secondary), and relied on Hover for protection (Blasters get a variety of powers that help them survive from their secondary). While perfectly valid for your own playstyle, those secondaries do server a purpose, and many do it very well.
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In my opinion, with both Kheldian archetypes, you have to make choices about what you want from the character. There are simply too many options to have everything. Human-only helps a lot, especially with slots, since you don't have to add slots to the form power, or the powers granted by that form. But Human-only also limits your capabilities. If you take one or both forms, you have to decide which Human powers you want to skip over or ignore slots in, otherwise you'll spread yourself too thin.
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You can't treat Dominators like Controllers. With Controllers, you can help protect yourself and your team with your buff/debuff secondary, and deal damage and control with your primary -- before pets and epics, your single-target mezzes pretty much are your damage. With a Dominator, controls are more like setup for your attacks. Your control keeps you from getting squished while you're in melee. Et cetera. For example, I've got a Mind/Psi Dom at level 24 and one of the things I frequently do to open combat is Mass Hypnosis to put the spawn to sleep, jump in the middle for Drain Psyche (big +Regen and +Recovery), and then start attacking. Specifically irritating enemies can be confused, and I can Hold (Dominate) and Sleep (Mesmerize) two enemies while I kill a third. My controls are my armor, in other words.
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Yes, for someone who doesn't like and is inexperienced with Masterminds, Ninjas was a bad choice. So was Poison. Melee pets are harder to control well and keep alive (and Ninjas in particular run around everywhere with extra RunSpeed), and a single-target set like Poison just makes the job harder. For a better experience, you should have gone with a more ranged group of pets (Robotics, Thugs, Mercenaries, or Demon Summoning once it comes out), and a secondary with more area support (um... basically everything except Poison, though in my opinion Force Field is a bit boring; Traps would also set an entirely different pace on the gameplay from the other sets).
With ranged pets, you can often ignore trying to control them at all. Just turn on Bodyguard mode and jump into the spawn yourself. You'll get attacked, absorb it via BG, and your pets will unleash hell. I love my Thugs/Dark, too -- I left my computer during a Malta mission to go eat dinner, and I came back to find that I had defeated 3 ambushes without a single pet dying. |
With regard to a petless Mastermind: I would generally advise against it. Yes, it can be done, and yes some team leaders will let you join as a petless Mastermind, but in general petless Mastermind gets weak attacks (weaker than Defenders, and you don't even get a full set of 9), moderate buff/debuffs (similar to Controllers and Corruptors, though if you play Dark Miasma, Twilight Grasp's radius is also nerfed), and no inherent power (since the MM inherent entirely depends on henchmen). HOWEVER. Since seeing Demon Summoning I wouldn't necessarily take the same stance. In fact, I created a DS/Pain MM on Test specifically because Pain has a number of low-level powers that I'm not especially interested in, so that I could skip them in favor of the whip attacks -- which are actually useful in my opinion, unlike the other MM attacks.
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In those large team situations, have you tried ignoring your AS and treating your Stalker like a Scrapper? Scrapper and Stalker are very similar -- there are a few differences like their maximum HP, but it's easy to scrap on a Stalker.
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As for Smoke Flash: It's like Placate from your primary, except that it's AoE and it doesn't put you back into Hidden status. Each enemy you affect will ignore you until either the effect wears off, or you attack them. Unfortunately, it doesn't Hide you, meaning you can't get another AS or automatic critical. Remember the difference between the effect "placate" (enemy ignores you), and the power [Placate] (which applies "placate" to a single target and puts you back in Hide).
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I'm surprised you liked Bane Spider/Night Widow but had trouble with Stalker, and that you found the Widow line more survivable than the Soldier line. The survivability difference between the two is basically 5% (+enhancement) defense overall in favor of Soldiers, 5% defense overall in favor of Widows when Mind Link is active, ranged defense superiority for Soldiers, and melee defense superiority for Widows. The Soldiers also get resistance which the Widows don't, and Crabs get a self-heal.
Bane Spiders and Night Widows have a lot in common with Stalkers. Perhaps it was just an issue with powerset selection for you? |
Also, I hear ya on endurance consumption. Then again, my Fortunata is running Tactical Training: Maneuvers, Tactical Training: Assault, Tactical Training: Leadership, Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics, and Indomitable Will, plus Hasten on autofire, plus near-perma Mind Link, plus spamming Psychic Scream, Psionic Tornado, and Psychic Wail every chance I get. Oh, and I often forget to turn off Super Speed in combat (after I lie in wait in the middle of the spawn with SS+Celerity, opening with Psy Wail)
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Congrats to you OP.
I have the same goal but will be awhile coming because I dislike red side and do not play villains much. Though that will change with Going Rouge and I can use the AT's on hero side.
Currently I have all hero AT's at level 50 except Warshade, just have hard time getting into the powersets. Only have two level 50 villains; brute (because wanted to try VEATs) and Dominator, just got the big ding over the weekend (my first villain, made the day CoV went live).
My main goals are getting level 50 in each Blaster and Scrapper primary powerset. Have ways to go though; two down for Blasters (Archery, Energy, and Rad Blast at level 45) and four done for Scrappers (Fire Melee, Dark Melee, Dual Blades, and Katana).
Tanks is a secondary goal as I have two level 50's; Inv and Ice Armor.
I just like playing new powersets and enjoying each new power; why I like to get to 50 and feel complete then I can try another set. Though have many many alts and with the problem of running out of slots on Virtue because two new sets coming.
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
Congratulations, Utopia, on the accomplishment.
As one who loves dominators, I'd just like to nitpick a bit at the controller comparison. Dominators' compatriot blueside is the blaster, not the controller. You know how many blasters have controls that help them stay alive? Ice has its holds, and many have stuns, a few have others as well. (Sleep, fear, confuse, etc.) Now imagine your blaster is in trouble...those powers are used to keep the blaster alive long enough to kill the enemy. Dominators are the exact same, but they trade some of the more massive kill power for more massive control. The blaster might have the tools to wipe that entire mob of minions, and control the boss he can't kill right away; the dominator has the tools to control that entire mob he can't kill right away, and kill them at a slower pace. The enemy unable to strike--->enemy dead is simply more top heavy in the dominator equation. Can this control help others? Sure. But you aren;'t a controller-a dominator is damage with damage prevention. They aren't support in the traditional sense. (Oh, and don't get me wrong. Dominator damage is not Anemic-they just don't have nukes or the buildup-aim combo.)
Oh, and for Arachnos soldiers? You owe it to yourself to try a Crab spider. Tougher than some brutes, if built right, with AoE's like a blaster and pets to boot. Good stuff.
Gratz, Utopia. I once had the same goal but found there to be several ATs I simply can't tolerate playing.
Be well, people of CoH.
Mega congratulations.
I've been working my way towards this for a long while and am just 3 away. Defenders and Corruptors would have been impossible for me if not for the recent dual pistols arrival.
My widow is at 43, corruptor is at 15 and defender is at 12. I had hoped to get the widow there before demon summoning but that isn't going to happen so she may not be done till the end of the summer.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
After six years, I've finally gotten every AT in the game to 50. It's something I've been focusing on hardcore on finishing for several months now. I wanted to do it so I could understand how each class works and become a better player because of it. Here are a few of my thoughts on each AT.
Blaster - Love the damage output, but most of the secondaries seem really outdated or just out of place. I ended up going devices, energy or mental almost on all builds. Still going to try out the others though eventually. Hover is a lifesaver on a blaster and the epics that give them control and armor is a huge bonus. But with the less than impressive secondaries, I'd give this AT a 8/10.
Latent - lvl 50 Psychic Blast/Mental Manipulation
Concert - lvl 50 Sonic/Devices
Defender - This is my AT of choice. I've learned a good defender can defend, control, scrap, tank or blast at the drop of a hat. Specially a stormy, which is my personal favorite. They are a welcome addition to any team, can be deadly in pvp if the build is right, and are basically a Swiss army knife. This is definitely my playstyle as I have several defenders to 50. And with the damage bonus coming in I17, they'll be even better. I'll happily give this AT a 10/10!
Utopia - lvl 50 Storm/Electric Blast
Highness - lvl 50 Empathy/Psychic Blast
Dexterity - lvl 50 Trick Arrow/Archery
Controller - This one seems highly based on the teaming of your primary and secondary. Going Kin or Rad seems almost required, but I'm starting to see the value in others. Controlling is great, but the defender secondaries seem to really help this AT thrive. Before the epics though, I had a much harder time with my controllers. It was also really difficult to solo some builds before 32. I'd give this AT an 8/10.
Deadheat - lvl 50 Fire Control/Kinetics
Emit - lvl 50 Ice Control/Radiation
Scrapper - I was really surprised at how much I liked this class. I was never really a melee person, preferring to stay back and support, but there is just something about being in their faces and pwning them that is rewarding. My biggest problem was running out of endurance early on, which is why I tended to go for regen or willpower. But there are so many primary and secondary sets for scrappers that are just fantastic. This AT gets a 9/10.
Larva - lvl 50 Claws/Super Reflexes
Loyalty - lvl 50 Martial Arts/Shield
Belfry - lvl 50 Dark Melee/Regen
Tanker - Sad as it is, I played this game for 5 years before I realized this is actually called a Tanker instead of a tank. That aside, tanks are a much needed addition to any team. Depending on powers, they can almost dish out scrapper level damage it seems and survive a lot longer. Personally, a tank isn't my playstyle, since I'm less of a combat leader and more support, but I do love the survivability. Unfortunately, it seems that power choices can make or break a tank. Low damage on top of no lasting power can be brutal. Plus, a lot of tanks really need a good IO build to be the most effective. 8/10
Giga Girl - lvl 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength
Peacebringer - This was a lot better than I had feared. Although I found the squid form useless, the human form was really playable. The melee powers and the heal is what really helped this overcome its reputation for me. I never did get into the shapeshifting, which is what a lot of people swear by, but human form worked out pretty well. But there was nothing this AT did that another AT couldn't do better. 7/10
Obsession - lvl 50 Peacebringer
Warshade - This one had some really unique powers. Unfortunately, too many. I found it hard to discover my role in combat besides just random chaos. I was shocked that it was so different than a PB. Way more control, no melee, and powers I hadn't really seen in other AT's before. Plus I REALLY hate teleporting. 6/10
Bait Boy - lvl 50 Warshade
Corrupter - A defender with more damage? Hellz yea! They have some really unique and awesome power choices. And some of the non-defender combinations were really refreshing. This is a MUCH needed addition to villain teams. Scourge is a fantastic inherit power too. 10/10!
Immersion - lvl 50 Fire/Thermal
Exhale - lvl 50 Dark Blast/Ice Domination
Dominator - A big MEH. This seems really dependent on powers meshing. I love the hell out of my plant/thorn, but other combos weren't as successful. The control is nice, but some seem lost without the help of a defender secondary. Plus there are a lot of powers that are really endurance heavy and instead of transference I get to use firebreath? Not as helpful... The Domination inherit is a real life safer though. 7/10
Canopy - lvl 50 Plant/Thorn
Mastermind - Yeesh...Even before I made one of these I really didn't wanna team with them. They slowed down my computer, clogged up cave maps, and created utter chaos. But in my quest to understand them, I made one. I probably made a mistake choosing Ninja's, but I was really sick of seeing robots. Solo or on a team of 1 or 2, it wasn't a big a nightmare as I thought. But on a bigger team, especially with a second or third Mastermind on the team, it was sheer terror. Random aggro everywhere, tons of dead ninjas. Despite my best efforts, they rarely seemed to honor my commands. Thanks the gods for the MM secondaries. I think I'm going to make a petless MM when demons come out. 5/10
Skill - lvl 50 Ninja/Poison
Stalker - I really thought I would have more fun on this. Again, solo or on a small team, it was great. Love Assassin's Strike and my build was surprisingly survivable. But on a larger team, trying to AS the boss was almost impossible as the group would aggro and I would get smacked with an AoE or the boss would flee right after I hit build up. There are so many things on a full team that hinders my AS, which is my bread and butter and made it all the more frustrating. But the damage output is still pretty solid and I love the ability to stealth like no other. Also, despite trying many times to use it and understand it, I still don't know what the hell Smoke Flash is doing. 8/10
Conceal - lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu
Brute - Now this is what I'm talking about. If I can learn to play a tank this way, I'll be in business. Again, running out of endurance is annoying, especially in the never ending quest to keep fury up. But the damage output of this class is massive. So many neat combinations of powers also. The only downside is if there are several brutes on the team, which there usually are, getting and keeping fury is almost impossible. 9/10
Suplex - lvl 50 Energy Melee/Willpower
Arachnos Soldier - A lot more squishy than I imagined. But pretty solid none-the-less. What is great about them is the combination of powers you can choose from. The Crab Spider build is very unique, with a lot of AOE type powers, but the Bane Spider is what I really found fantastic. Huge burst damage and I didn't have to stare at the spider legs anymore. Good mix of ranged and melee damage, and the team buffs are always helpful. Besides being pretty squishy, good build. 8/10.
Rivalry - lvl 50 Bane Spider
Blood Widow - A lot more sturdy than the Soldiers. The Fortunata is hugely different than the Night Widow. She's a blaster/controller on almost epic proportions. I love just owning a huge mob and them being helpless to stop me. Only downside is she uses endurance like nobody's business. A Night Widow is pretty sturdy and does decent burst damage. Plus Mind Link is hella useful for the entire team. They trade some damage of the Soldier to be more survivable. 9/10
Lunacy - lvl 50 Fortunata/Night Widow
So there are my experiences with all the AT's. I know a lot of it is just personal preference and in no way to I expect people to agree with me. Almost every AT has a role to play in combat. It's all based on how well someone plays them that makes them effective.