Interest in a Freedom mini-ladder?
By
Bionic_Flea,
Posted on: 2010-04-15 07:01 in Everything about PvP
Just making a general point here, considering my post(s) raged several fat nerds.
No matter what format a league opts to run, be it 5v5 to 8v8, the playerbase is going to find the optimal team set up to run. So for those that are arguing that colds/therms/MMs become viable and that a lower default allows for "creativity" is an idiot if they think that teams won't min/max until they find what works best to allow them the highest probability of winning.
But I'm crazy, I'm one of the rare few apparently that doesn't care what I play (Trust me, I hate playing Rad, and I'm terrible at it) as long as I'm playing with a group of people that don't make me want to stab myself in the clavicle.
It used to be that we wanted to see matches go higher than 8v8s. It's unfortunate that we're drifting to lower defaults as an actual suggestion. And I still see no real justification for it.
Also, I like how Johnnykat lead his argument with "you don't understand what 'mini' means".
Here, let me address that. A "mini" ladder is retarded. The format should be higher. Go do some aerobics.
Quote:
qft
|
Originally Posted by vindizzle
no matter what format a league opts to run, be it 5v5 to 8v8, the playerbase is going to find the optimal team set up to run. So for those that are arguing that colds/therms/mms become viable and that a lower default allows for "creativity" is an idiot if they think that teams won't min/max until they find what works best to allow them the highest probability of winning.
|
Quote:
Redside PvP was much slower paced and left room for flexibility regarding line-ups. |
Originally Posted by black_barrier
partially in disagreement.
the renegays sorta proved that there are such things as situationally optimal lineups. when everyone is switching back and forth, a lot of the new idiots playing this game will have zero idea how to optimize in specific situations. |
My point is that the diversity people are harping on about isn't going to happen, not because a match default is set for a lower amount of players.
We could always go full retard and have hero and villain ladders. Course that'd probably be retarded because AS doesn't do damage anymore, but it's something to think about.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
GUYS. I don't know why everyone seems to think 5v5 means less players. Clearly it means more diverse lineups. I mean, remember the awesome 5v5 ladder from i13 that lasted for two weeks? Lineups were VERY diverse.
Oh wait.
Quote:
In this case, 2v2 ladder anyone? Let's make it really mini!
|
Originally Posted by Silit
GUYS. I don't know why everyone seems to think 5v5 means less players. Clearly it means more diverse lineups. I mean, remember the awesome 5v5 ladder from i13 that lasted for two weeks? Lineups were VERY diverse.
Oh wait. |
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
Quote:
while i'm not disagreeing with the first point. what i'm trying to say is that, at this point, people are so bad at both playing and countering, that diversity will result as people exploit inequalities in player quality and game knowledge.|
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Redside PvP was much slower paced and left room for flexibility regarding line-ups.
My point is that the diversity people are harping on about isn't going to happen, not because a match default is set for a lower amount of players. |
ie, people are so bad at this point that if you sic certain idiotic lineups on them, they freak and lose all too often.
Quote:
he kind of got point here...<_<
|
Originally Posted by black_barrier
while i'm not disagreeing with the first point. what i'm trying to say is that, at this point, people are so bad at both playing and countering, that diversity will result as people exploit inequalities in player quality and game knowledge.
ie, people are so bad at this point that if you sic certain idiotic lineups on them, they freak and lose all too often. |
I thought the main reason for the i13 ladder failing wasn't the 5vs5 format but the fact that a "no heal decay" option didn't exist yet so matches were played with DR off. With everyone at cap resist killing anything required force bolt or TK follow by a double AS.
@Intro lolPvP
That would be the main reason, yes. Even pre-I15 kickballs were retarded because the strategy basically consisted of finding the guy on the other team without enough KB protection and KB/ASing him the whole match.
'Course with DR, mez changes, and complete removal of travel suppression (assuming the "no TS" option is selected) you have almost no reason to bring anything other than Emps and damage because buffers have little value.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Do pentads, only one of each AT.... Wouldnt that be a bit more balanced?
|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Offering to be nice to the under dog doesn't change the fact that most teams and most matches are 6 psi/em's and 2 emps.
I don't think the size of the teams is going to necessarily change that fact. The only thing that would change it is limiting to 2 each AT. Limitations are dumb. |
Quote:
No, thanks for your suggestions.|
Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
Do pentads, only one of each AT.... Wouldnt that be a bit more balanced?
|
Have a nice day.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
Quote:
Actually it was just one suggestion, not suggestions. And I think it would. So good day to you sir.
|
Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
No, thanks for your suggestions.
Have a nice day. |
Quote:
I put suggestion at first, but suggestions sounded better and it would carry on if you had anymore terrible ideas.|
Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
Actually it was just one suggestion, not suggestions. And I think it would. So good day to you sir.
|
And clearly it doesn't matter what you think because you're not good.
Try again, a little bit harder next time.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
Pentads would be retarded because nothing would ever kill anything.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
^---- this
|
Originally Posted by macskull
Pentads would be retarded because nothing would ever kill anything.
|
Quote:
^---- this is hyperbole
|
Originally Posted by macskull Pentads would be retarded because nothing would ever kill anything. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
lol
|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
^---- this is hyperbole
|
Quote:
^---- this is so Dahjee
|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
^---- this is hyperbole
|
Quote:
Only if untrue.
|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
^---- this is hyperbole
|
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
I played on a pentad league on Justice before I13 (so I acknowledge that difference). People died left and right. Now granted that we didn't have super-duper elite test teams, but we did have a few decent PvP'ers sprinkled throughout the teams.
It was an interesting concept, in my opinion: create 5 new toons, fight on Saturday evenings and you had to meet and not exceed the weight-class. So each week we went up one or two weight classes (arena level groupings) and fought 2 opposing groups in best two out of three 10 min matches with points for win or draw.
Everybody gunned after the squishies of course. While there was only one blaster, there were lots of webnades and stun nades being tossed around to let the melee try and get a hit in. And everybody has at least one range attack. Sure, folks would phase or hibernate but you just switch targets for a few seconds and then come right back to them while they're waiting for recharge or still in "nophase."
I played Emp/Ice and my team won the league. We got yellow titles in game from Ex Libris or Niviene. Go me.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
JAL did a few pentads, and they were fun. Definitely not high scores, but people did die. But that was when a single blaster was a threat...when they didn't need to spam attacks for 20 seconds to get 1 kill.
Quote:
I played a few matches in that league on Dent's Son/EM, so I know where you're coming from, but it's the same kind of deal that makes 2v2s post-I13 stupid as well. A character with a self-heal should almost never die in a 2v2 these days, and when every other insp is a waste you can just bring a tray of greens, improving your survivability even more.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
I played on a pentad league on Justice before I13 (so I acknowledge that difference). People died left and right. Now granted that we didn't have super-duper elite test teams, but we did have a few decent PvP'ers sprinkled throughout the teams.
|
To be fair, in pre-I13 team matches buffs were actually a make-or-break deal, unlike today, where if you lose a buff for a while you're not really taking a survivability hit (i.e. not having CM or Fort) and if your support wasn't that great at keeping buffs up, your team would be at a huge disadvantage right from the start. One of the advantages of running, say, a Storm team pre-I13 was the ability to harass the other team's buffers (Emps/Kins) as long as possible until they started to get frazzled and buffs started dropping, at which point you just started rolling them. That doesn't work anymore because buffs aren't as mission-critical.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
I thought one of the current leagues used 6 per team? In which case I find it hard to believe that one less per side would turn into 0 to 0 ties every match.
|
Originally Posted by macskull
Pentads would be retarded because nothing would ever kill anything.
|
Our team hasn't run 6 psi/em :c