Interest in a Freedom mini-ladder?
By
Bionic_Flea,
Posted on: 2010-04-15 07:01 in Everything about PvP
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Stating my opinion means I am not willing to reach a compromise? I read your point, I just didn't agree that it was the best way. However I don't want to form any event that people are not going to want to participate in. If more people want 8v8 as the default then that would be the way to go.|
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
I just justified my point in the last post. Is reading that much of a difficulty for you?
If Team A for example has 8 players available, but knows for certain that they win more often under a 5v5 format by running a very strict team set-up, they're going to limit Team B who also has 8 players available from playing in the 8v8 format because it benefits them and gives them a higher chance of securing themselves a win. I can most certainly see that happening. Where's the evidence? Look at the teams who legitimately rocked teams filled with taunters with the intention of forcing a tie. People will avoid an 8v8 because it requires more of their teammates being practiced and on point. A 5v5 can leave more room for error. If you are making a smaller number the minimum, players and teams trying to appeal to the safe side will enforce that, and teams that actively want to play at an 8v8 level are going to be left out in the cold. My solution provides a compromise in that it sets 8v8 as the default, but at least allows for a 6v7 or 6v6 if both teams agree. Hell, you can even give forfeit wins absolutely no merit in ladder rankings, forcing both teams to reschedule a match and play it at another time. Again, I love how I'm the only one trying to reach a compromise here, but you're the PvPEC rep. |
Eventhough I can see your point I just think that forcing 5v5 or 6v6 would happen a lot less often than a team trying to force an 8v8 on a team that doesnt have enough people show up. Especially being there are no ties in best 2 out of 3. That being said the forfeit's having no merit in ranking is a great idea I didn't think of.
However dUmb looks to have the intentions of forming up some kind of 8v8 League, would be sort of retarded to have 2 of the same thing running at the same time. So if there isn't more interest in a smaller mini-league then no biggie.
6 psi/ems 2 emps vs 6 psi/ems 2 emps....whole season...yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh i am soo excited.
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Not at all. As you said, this is about interest. The car isn't for sale yet. Vinnie is suggesting that when it hits the market it should be an 8 seater instead of a 5 seater.|
Originally Posted by Johnnykat
Vin, your argument makes sense at first, but...
Then move on and wait for full-size ladder. Your whole argument is like being mad that the only car for sale is a compact but you want a mini-van to seat your 8... |
It doesn't take a genius to realize that 5v5s are incredibly two dimensional and require far less skill than 8v8s.
Xanatos also makes a great point about allowing current D6 members to better participate.
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Fair enough, but the apparently understanding the word mini does take a genius. So if we take a step further back, the car in question is a 5 seater...not an 8. Again, the OP is asking for interest in a 5v5 mini...she is not asking for suggestions on which format (in our example a car) to make next. So splitting hairs about whether the car is for sale or not quite on the market is irrelevant.|
Originally Posted by Silit
Not at all. As you said, this is about interest. The car isn't for sale yet. Vinnie is suggesting that when it hits the market it should be an 8 seater instead of a 5 seater...
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If this current league is any indicator of new d6rs being able to play with d8, then Xanatos' argument goes out the window too. More teams have complained about being forced to play d6rs on there d8s then I can count. I've been lucky to get as much d8 play as I have imo. So, more then likely history will repeat itself like it always does and those new d6rs will make for great new d8 bench warmers in most cases. The only pro I do see to Xanatos' argument is that for practice purposes, the d6 player MAY get to learn a little about team tactics. But again, if there is no guideline to have to play new people, then I foresee frustration when game day comes around and the old clique people get to play and the new one has to sit out.
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8v8s and I think people need to get over "dooshness baggers" in an online game. Otherwise we should do up gold farmers and scream "No PK" in /ac.
But I guess we all could do the right thing and take a feelings inventory to make sure we have the necessary recourses to make this work. I for one am repressing childhood memories of Dark Age of Camelot when I finally got my troll Cave Shaman to 40 through blood sweat and tears when all I had to do was wait a couple years and they'd give you a free level every 3 days on some servers and 6 days on others(provided you gained a level on your own). This was very traumatic for me and personally I think if Dark Age of Camelot had done 5 v 5's for my PvE, I could have avoided the inevitable screams of a darkling egg hatcher, and my inability to kill it on a Cave Shaman.
Then came the time I gave into pier pressure (myself verse myself) and bought 90 gold from an online website(whenever my mom walked in I closed the gold farming website faster than I did nudy pictures of cartoon characters). I was living the dream. Now I could dye my cloth armor black that I purchased from a consignment merchant. BUT THE ARMOR WAS PURPLE SO I COULDN'T USE IT TILL 50 AND MY RUNE MASTER WAS ONLY LEVEL 41.
If only I had a 5 v 5 to avoid this. Now I am haunted by the memory of paying 10 real life dollars that I could have used for McDonalds twice. But instead I used that 10 dollars and I had to boil tumble weeds for dinner for 2 nights. I ate the tumble weed with filet mignon and lobster but it just wasn't the same as McDonalds.
If only we all had the 5 v 5 option to avoid this "dooshingtonchesterfieldville" representatives, but lo and behold! 8v8s are less f*gtarded than 5 v 5s.
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What's the problem with this? Why can't I bide my time and learn from practice? I've learned a lot from Silit, Klesk, Vinnie, Hoj and March. I'm not nearly good enough to replace any of them, but that's ok. I'm happy enough to practice and learn how to play up to their level. If you limit the regulars to even 10, there's a good chance that people on the bench will have to play at least spot duty.|
Originally Posted by Johnnykat
So, more then likely history will repeat itself like it always does and those new d6rs will make for great new d8 bench warmers in most cases.
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| But again, if there is no guideline to have to play new people, then I foresee frustration when game day comes around and the old clique people get to play and the new one has to sit out. |
I may not be a good player, but I try to show up to practice and do my best. And, I'm there for D8 if they ever need someone to fill. I may suck, but I can lock on most targets and at least have a little bit of a clue on evading. And, I'm cool with that. I have fun practicing and get better each time I get regular practices.
I'd definitely love to keep learning from my team- even if that meant that I wouldn't see a single official. Maybe I'm in the minority with that, but I'm sure there are some people playing D6 right now that feel the way I do.
I'd definitely love to join a 8v8 ladder team, even if it means being a practice only player.
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It's called earning your stripes. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm in the same boat as you.
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I may not be a good player, but I try to show up to practice and do my best. And, I'm there for D8 if they ever need someone to fill. I may suck, but I can lock on most targets and at least have a little bit of a clue on evading. And, I'm cool with that. I have fun practicing and get better each time I get regular practices. I'd definitely love to keep learning from my team- even if that meant that I wouldn't see a single official. Maybe I'm in the minority with that, but I'm sure there are some people playing D6 right now that feel the way I do. I'd definitely love to join a 8v8 ladder team, even if it means being a practice only player. |
In 8vs8 when everything is Psy/Rad/Emp bringing corrupters,doms,colds or thermals have very little impact. A smaller ladder might allowed them to play a bigger role, and increase some diversity in the arena.
I can see a problem with only 10 max allowed in the roster.
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Kinda agree, but the ugly truth is outside CIGAL poison MM/stalker combo and dUmb storm team 8vs8 are pretty one dimensional.
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Originally Posted by Silit
5v5 is very two dimensional.
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@Intro lolPvP
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I'd rather see Psy/Rad/Emp/Kin/TA 8v8s than 5 brutes racing.
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Originally Posted by _Nanu_
In 8vs8 when everything is Psy/Rad/Emp bringing corrupters,doms,colds or thermals have very little impact. A smaller ladder might allowed them to play a bigger role, and increase some diversity in the arena.
Kinda agree, but outside CIGAL poison MM/stalker combo and dUmb storm team, 8vs8 are pretty one dimensional. |
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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We cant run different line ups because teams run draw teams and we have to run counter draw teams. We have the best Ice/Cold in the game and cant use that... But its all about the points and we cant afford to take a tie with any team other then U2BG. We were going to run 0 psi em vs you guys if kat would agree to no draw teams but she doesnt have that power cuz its a team vote we were informed.
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Originally Posted by _Nanu_
Kinda agree, but the ugly truth is outside CIGAL poison MM/stalker combo and dUmb storm team 8vs8 are pretty one dimensional. |
I agree about earning your stripes, but I also agree that those that feel that way may be in the minority. I tend to like practices more than actual league games anyways, but only when it's a practice with another team and not an internal.
I like the "free agent" idea, but not sure how that could be implemented all that well without thinking more about it and seeing what other people have to say.
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You guys play 8v8 now on the D8 sides. From the scores the top two teams are U2BG and SMD (looks like anyhow). Out of curiosity what have those two teams brought against each other as far as lineups?
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Originally Posted by Jaso
You guys play 8v8 now on the D8 sides. From the scores the top two teams are U2BG and SMD (looks like anyhow). Out of curiosity what have those two teams brought against each other as far as lineups?
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rpvp.guildportal.com has Silit and Vinnie's eloquent summaries of D8 matches. You can see who ran what there.
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being unemployed you probably can't afford a lot of things :<|
Originally Posted by Daknah
We cant run different line ups because teams run draw teams and we have to run counter draw teams. We have the best Ice/Cold in the game and cant use that... But its all about the points and we cant afford to take a tie with any team other then U2BG. We were going to run 0 psi em vs you guys if kat would agree to no draw teams but she doesnt have that power cuz its a team vote we were informed.
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btw its a video game, just a reminder.
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
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hey hey, that lineup has a lot more variety than the 2 emp + 1 fort + x stalkers + x blasters optimal line-up (if we didn't have stupid blind lineup rules).
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Originally Posted by EnD_Reitanna
6 psi/ems 2 emps vs 6 psi/ems 2 emps....whole season...yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh i am soo excited.
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Match 1|
Originally Posted by Jaso
You guys play 8v8 now on the D8 sides. From the scores the top two teams are U2BG and SMD (looks like anyhow). Out of curiosity what have those two teams brought against each other as far as lineups?
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U2bg 2 emps 1 rad 2 brutes 3 blasters*
SMD 2 emps 6 psi em
Match 2
u2bg 2 emps 1 rad 2 brutes 3 blasters
SMD 2 emps 6 psi em*
Match 3
u2bg 2 emps 1 rad 4 blasters 1 grav kin (march is a bosssss)*
SMD 2 emps 6 psi em
We couldnt run our rad because we kicked him from the league that week.
The next match up between us is sunday.
Let me guess, 6 psi/em 2 emps?
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Offering to be nice to the under dog doesn't change the fact that most teams and most matches are 6 psi/em's and 2 emps.|
Originally Posted by Daknah
We cant run different line ups because teams run draw teams and we have to run counter draw teams. We have the best Ice/Cold in the game and cant use that... But its all about the points and we cant afford to take a tie with any team other then U2BG. We were going to run 0 psi em vs you guys if kat would agree to no draw teams but she doesnt have that power cuz its a team vote we were informed.
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I don't think the size of the teams is going to necessarily change that fact. The only thing that would change it is limiting to 2 each AT. Limitations are dumb.
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being limited by what you submit as your blind lineup is dumb.
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Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Offering to be nice to the under dog doesn't change the fact that most teams and most matches are 6 psi/em's and 2 emps.
I don't think the size of the teams is going to necessarily change that fact. The only thing that would change it is limiting to 2 each AT. Limitations are dumb. |
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Who told you?!?!?!
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Originally Posted by h0j
Let me guess, 6 psi/em 2 emps?
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no counter lineups = all of this is retarded.
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Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
I'd rather see Psy/Rad/Emp/Kin/TA 8v8s than 5 brutes racing.
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The whole point of double-blind lineups is to prevent counterpicking, counterpicking, and more counterpicking, but during the test ladder matches almost never started on time because no one ever enforced the fifteen-minute rule. If you could actually enforce the fifteen-minute rule (perhaps drop it to 10 minutes), counterpicking wouldn't be such a big deal.
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Everybody should just do pentads. There, problem solved lol.
Vin, your argument makes sense at first, but...
The subject here is "mini-ladder", what part of "mini" do you not understand? CKat is only looking for "interest" at this point in time. If the concept (regardless of how bad) is for 5v5 and you already have a problem with it. Then move on and wait for full-size ladder. Your whole argument is like being mad that the only car for sale is a compact but you want a mini-van to seat your 8...
Honestly, the small team format in theory promotes creating new "cliques" (lols) by forcing people outside of their box/comfort zone in order to make more teams. More teams should equal more play time for new players as opposed to more bench warmers on the old clique teams.
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