Thoughts on resurrecting enemies being untargetable
By
Angryellow,
Posted on: 2010-04-13 14:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Being able to target and basically kill a target that cannot fight back, was an exploit, that's why the Devs fixed it.
It's annoying to have to wait to target, but thems the breaks. I'm still trying to get used to it.
Ran into this last night on my Fire/Rad team doing the Freakalympics.
Weird thing though, the Imps seemed to still be able to target them.
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Will AoE's like Fire Sword Circle still be able to hit them?
Indeed, it's a curiously incomplete "fix". The enemies are not untouchable, just untargetable by players, much like invasion zombies when they're emerging from the ground. And much like invasion zombies, they're still affected by patches, auras, PBAoEs, and can be targeted by pets. You can hurt them, you just can't aim at them. It's odd.
@SPTrashcan
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So basically you're telling me my fire/shield scrapper won't actually be bothered by this at all? That's nice to know. Off to farm.
As far as I can recall from fighting Freaks with my fire/fire tank, yes. Godspeed, farmer.
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I forgot to mention, I think a better solution would have been to make it so they can attack sooner after resurrecting. Less wait with out making them easier targets.
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
Being able to target and basically kill a target that cannot fight back, was an exploit, that's why the Devs fixed it.
It's annoying to have to wait to target, but thems the breaks. I'm still trying to get used to it. |
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Originally Posted by Clebstein
I forgot to mention, I think a better solution would have been to make it so they can attack sooner after resurrecting. Less wait with out making them easier targets.
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/signed
I realize that it would take a revamp of the rez animation for this to work, but it would be a better "fix" in the long run, IMHO.
I also agree that Freakshow and Wailer Kings used to be really fun to fight... now I just avoid them. It's very frustrating watching your AoEs and/or pets pound on a rezzing foe while you just stand there and abuse the Tab key.
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Ironically, as almost every farm build has pets, PBAoEs, or damage auras of some sort, this "fix" affects them far less than normal builds which lack these powers.
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
Being able to target and basically kill a target that cannot fight back, was an exploit, that's why the Devs fixed it.
It's annoying to have to wait to target, but thems the breaks. I'm still trying to get used to it. |
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MM's exploit this "no target" issue in both aggressive and defensive mode. Aggressive because pets can still target things and defensive because these npc's aren't bound to the same no targeting rules as we are so they will attack you immediately.
Other toons simply work around it with pbaoe's and other powers that require no target to function.
Not really seeing why my stormy can immediately debuff the freak tank, but my rad has to wait until it has tried to 2 shot me.
I get why they decided to make this change as insta killing them as they stood up was not working as intended, but as of now this affects some pc's and not others. A much more complete fix would be to apply the "unaffected" effect to the npc rez for a second or two and still allow targeting.
Yes, still allow targeting so that everyone is on the same footing as soon as the unaffected period expires otherwise you'd still be giving advantage to some powers over others.
edit: I used the phrase "exploit" because the devs seem to listen to that word and may actually result in a change.
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A more appropriate fix would be to make them invulnerable but still targettable during the resurrection animation.
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
Being able to target and basically kill a target that cannot fight back, was an exploit, that's why the Devs fixed it.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Fighting Rommy is kinda annoying now, losing the target. But it seems to only work the first time. I dont care about the extra hits, but retargetting in a huge crowd sucks.
Yes, I believe the change was added all thanks to AE. They didn't bother to think about normal mission content.
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Really, do they ever? Between this, the total nerfing of arcs with allies, and the BoTZ change I'm finding it hard to believe the devs think about the impact of their changes before making them.
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Originally Posted by Edgewater
Yes, I believe the change was added all thanks to AE. They didn't bother to think about normal mission content.
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At worst, it's a little annoying. Exactly what impact besides "must wait a second or two" does this have on "normal mission content"?
That said, I do favor the "shorten the rez" rather than lengthening the wait as a solution.
Dec out.
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Maybe to you...I'm the kind of player who will rush in at 10% life on a blaster if the tanker is taking too long ("What do you mean pull, it's just nine Warhulks...watch me explode in their faces!"). I was already irritated at Freakshow (although they were still fun!) just because they DO resurrect...meaning I have to wait after each mob to make sure I get them. Now I have to wait LONGER!|
Originally Posted by Decorum
At worst, it's a little annoying.
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It's so darned irritating. >_< It just drives me crazy
OK, possibly a little more annoying to those with OCD. 
Dec out.
hordling berzerkers have always been like this. it's nothing new. just carried over to other things.
One more WoW reference out of you, and I'm afraid we'll have to confiscate your cape and spandex.
Dec out.
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he's referring to those big cot demons that can self rez.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
One more WoW reference out of you, and I'm afraid we'll have to confiscate your cape and spandex.
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The nice thing about them is I just hit them with a mez (that does a bit of damage) and then head to the next spawn. When they self destruct a short while after being free I get full xp for the kill and really did nothing and they rarely catch back up to me so risk free.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
hordling berzerkers have always been like this. it's nothing new. just carried over to other things.
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They also don't seem to attack before they are targetable (iirc), they spend the rezzing time casting their ice armor. Compared to a freak tank rezzing and trying to two shot you before he becomes targetable. Despite it being the same mechanic I think hordlings are working well, but other rezzing npc's not so much.
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lol@people crying about the BoTZ nerf. People will adjust and life will go on.
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Originally Posted by Clebstein
Really, do they ever? Between this, the total nerfing of arcs with allies, and the BoTZ change I'm finding it hard to believe the devs think about the impact of their changes before making them.
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I actually found I could get more defense out of some of my builds (Not a huge amount, mind you.) once I went back and thought of ways to get their defense back to where it was. I guess I had been getting lazy with BoTZ.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
lol@people crying about the BoTZ nerf. People will adjust and life will go on.
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If you didn't know, the latest AE nerf came with another change: You can't target enemies while they're resurrecting (and I believe players are untargetable while being resurrected as well).
To be blunt, I hate this change. I was on a mission against Freakshow, and we were pretty much obliterating them. Freakshow used to be fun to fight. Now you wipe out a spawn, and an enemy resurrects, and...you get to sit there. And wait. Hitting tab a hundred times until it finally lets you target him.
It doesn't make the game harder, it makes it tedious. Okay, so now I can't get a couple of free hits on the guy before he can fight back. Big deal. On a full team even a +2 Freakshow boss will barely get off two attacks before he's taken down. All this accomplished was making it so now you have to just WAIT. It's freaking annoying.
I saw some speculation that they added this because of an AE farm where the enemies would resurrect themselves. I really hope that isn't the reason. I've done that farm a couple times and I can't see this slowing down the XP gain by any meaningful amount, or even raising the risk. A couple seconds where you're not doing damage? Is that REALLY going to matter?
I admit I haven't been playing very long but this is the only change to the game that actually irritated me. I'm getting sick of Freakshow and they used to be one of my favorite groups to fight. ;_;