Good PvP topic I stumbled across in the suggestions thread.
By
black_barrier,
Posted on: 2010-04-08 06:37 in Everything about PvP
An interesting reply so don't tldr it.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
exactly.
I've been over this before in multiple locations; here in the forums; on Gamenikki.com (still down as RawServe will not respond to emails or phone calls and the situation is turning ugly); and zerias.blogspot.com The basic problem is that the PvE game is based on inherent imbalance. Each of the archtypes in the game is deliberately weak in some areas, and deliberately strong in other areas, which is to say they are inherently imbalanced. The imbalances drive the team-based combat of the PvE system where players should work together in order to over-come each other's weak spots. The need to balance the majority of the game content against a teaming experience is why the developers sometimes have to take drastic measures to halt a particular play-style or holy-grail goal that a segment of the player base pursues. An inherently imbalanced game makes for a incredibly imbalanced PvP enviroment. If you look at all of the good multiplayer games, they are based on two basic design principles: At Some Level the players are equal :: Skill matters The concept is most visible in first person shooters such Unreal Tournament, Quake, Prey, Doom, Far Cry / Crysis, and so on. All players start out with a basic weapon, and while they can gain over-powering weapons or armors, skill is still a factor. A player with a sniper rifle or a rail gun is dangerous at a distance... but enough armor or good enough use of cover, and that range advantage can disappear in a heartbeat. Even when looking at the kings of mixed-combat play; Monolith's Aliens Versus Predator 2 and Verant's Planetside; the concept still held up. AvP2 with only two players could be a decidedly unfair fight depending on what avatars the players controlled, whether or not class based weapons were in play, and whether or not alien life-cycle was on. However, AvP2 allowed players to adjust the scoring for each defeat... so that a face hugger dropping a marine with access to the smart gun awarded more points than the marine with the smart gun dropping the face hugger. The result was a multiplayer experience that could account for whether or not the actual combat was balanced. In Planetside, there was a spot for everybody. Even if you weren't in the league of VT-Grumpy-Bunny or Fatal1ty when it came to FPS combat, you could still find something to do in Planetside, be it a medic, a driver, a pilot, an engineer, or a combat strategist calling out which targets to hit and planning the battles. Even then, the actual FPS combat was still balanced against each Empire having similar weapon classes, even though those weapon classes behaved in different manners. The Vanu were terrors in water-bound and vertical combat situations. The Terrans ruled in open-field combat and more traditional FPS combat. In close quarters combat though, it was the New Conglomerate that held the advantage. Despite all of the different combat factors, Planetside's core combat still came down to who had the better aim. Skill mattered. A cloaker could take out a max armor. A skeeter pilot could down a BRF. *** So, in order for City of Heroes to work in a PvP enviroment, in order for it to provide good PvP, things have to be balanced. The PvE combat is not conducive to PvP play... and if the developers want to retain the aspect of City of Heroes were each archtype is supposed to give a different play experience, the PvE combat is never going to be conducive to PvP play. The design goals are diametrically opposed. *** This is complicated by the fact that the majority of players who participated in CoH PvP were not interested in good PvP play. They weren't interested in a balanced enviroment, and there stands a stark disconnect between the likes of Macskull and Conflict, and the actual development staff. The PvPer's largely want OMGWTFBBQ, I GANKED U HARD IN THE @$$ IM AWSUM YU SUK MAH... I'm sure you can fill in the rest. Ergo, the PvPer's, or rather the vocal PvPer's on the forums, want an imbalanced enviroment similar to Ultima Online. Well, thankfully, Castle and the rest of the development staff is smarter than that. Castle seems to have a handle on good PvP requiring that the PvP game be different from the PvE game. Issue 13 was a step in the right direction for where PvP play needs to go. *** That being said, there are other over-riding factors. My own personal opinion is that PvP play would be best served by it's own separate game with it's own separate development staff. That's my opinion. That also isn't likely. NCSoft got burned badly by Tabula Rasa, an Inherently Imbalanced PvE game like City of Heroes. Tabula Rasa quite literally blew up, putting a smoldering crater into NCSoft's financial reports, as it chased after a very vocal PvP minority. NCSoft and Destination Games found out the hardway that the available market of gamers willing to PAY for PvP content in a PvE game was a lot lower than the vocal minority had indicated. The fallout from Tabula Rasa will probably continue to have a large impact on the future of City of Heroes. NCSoft is likely not going to authorize funds for developing any further PvP content in City of Heroes. Basically, that means that NCSoft isn't going to pay Paragon Studios to work on PvP content, not that Paragon Studios can't work on PvP content. Rather, NCSoft's reported desire is that they drive the players willing to pay for PvP content to AION and the Guild Wars series, driving players to games that were created and built with PvP play in mind... not added as an afterthought to appease a vocal minority. *** So no, you are not wrong that CoX PvE and CoX PvP are two different games. They have to be two different games in order to achieve their design goals. Unfortunately, those competing design goals mean that future PvP development just isn't likely. |
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Ok i suggest that the devs use the PvP system for PvE lol.
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lol
| well, thankfully, castle and the rest of the development staff is smarter than that. Castle seems to have a handle on good pvp requiring that the pvp game be different from the pve game. Issue 13 was a step in the right direction for where pvp play needs to go. |
"Well, thankfully, Castle and the rest of the development staff is smarter than that. Castle seems to have a handle on good PvP requiring that the PvP game be different from the PvE game. Issue 13 was a step in the right direction for where PvP play needs to go."
I for one enjoyed the diversity of i12. Sure there were some problems, but today what kind of variety do we have in PVP?
In Zones we have a huge amount of stalkers villside and heroside we have a ton of scrappers and tanks and a few blasters.
In arena we have Psi/EM blasters, and Emps.
Occasionally you'll get some disruption toons (TA, FF, Grav) and some taunters (Brutes, Tanks) in both avenues but it's not even close to the diversity we had before i12. How is this a good thing? I thought the idea was to make PVP more accesible to a broader range of powersets and the devs have accomplised the exact opposite.
In i12 we stil had FOTM builds but you could still be competitive on a wide assortment of ATs and powersets.
What we have now is really kind of boring.
reducto ad absurdum
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Funny thing is, those sorts of people don't even PvP.
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Originally Posted by JKwervo
lol
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
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This is reasonably accurate is a pre-loot based CoX. However, the meta game has become an armsrace of shoring up weaknesses. City of Tankmages if you will.| The basic problem is that the PvE game is based on inherent imbalance. Each of the archtypes in the game is deliberately weak in some areas, and deliberately strong in other areas, which is to say they are inherently imbalanced. The imbalances drive the team-based combat of the PvE system where players should work together in order to over-come each other's weak spots. |
I'm not saying it should necessarily be balanced around such late game activities, just that you can't pretend they don't exist with such a holistic statement. PvP is generally viewed as "end game" content. So being aware of that is important.
*Unfortunately a lvl 15 pvp zone is a joke. It was put forth by a team using the "shotgun approach". A zone where most players don't even have a travel power yet and are going up against other players that can have fairly complete builds is retarded. Bloody Bay was an admission that they have no clue about designing or implementing pvp.
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An inherently imbalanced game makes for a incredibly imbalanced PvP enviroment. If you look at all of the good multiplayer games, they are based on two basic design principles: At Some Level the players are equal :: Skill matters The concept is most visible in first person shooters such Unreal Tournament, Quake, Prey, Doom, Far Cry / Crysis, and so on. All players start out with a basic weapon, and while they can gain over-powering weapons or armors, skill is still a factor. A player with a sniper rifle or a rail gun is dangerous at a distance... but enough armor or good enough use of cover, and that range advantage can disappear in a heartbeat. |
Or how people complain about stalkers and then someone brings in their earth/ta or earth/storm and all the stalkers flee like cockroaches.
Skill in play and skill in power selection is equally (or was) viable.
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| In Planetside, there was a spot for everybody. Even if you weren't in the league of VT-Grumpy-Bunny or Fatal1ty when it came to FPS combat, you could still find something to do in Planetside, be it a medic, a driver, a pilot, an engineer, or a combat strategist calling out which targets to hit and planning the battles. Even then, the actual FPS combat was still balanced against each Empire having similar weapon classes, even though those weapon classes behaved in different manners. The Vanu were terrors in water-bound and vertical combat situations. The Terrans ruled in open-field combat and more traditional FPS combat. In close quarters combat though, it was the New Conglomerate that held the advantage. Despite all of the different combat factors, Planetside's core combat still came down to who had the better aim. Skill mattered. A cloaker could take out a max armor. A skeeter pilot could down a BRF. |
Granted zone pvp would often degrade to the same thing over and over again that is a reflection of the pve game overflowing into pvp rather than a weakness of the pvp system.
What do I mean?
The pve system (despite what Je saist thinks) is designed around any character being capable of solo'ing just about all single player spawned content. People bring that same solo mentality onto the pvp field and either get torn up, complain, learn to team (cause pvp maps are usually not "solo spawned") or adapt and learn to solo in such an environment (ie roll a stalker at stealth cap and bore everyone to tears).
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So, in order for City of Heroes to work in a PvP enviroment, in order for it to provide good PvP, things have to be balanced. The PvE combat is not conducive to PvP play... and if the developers want to retain the aspect of City of Heroes were each archtype is supposed to give a different play experience, the PvE combat is never going to be conducive to PvP play. The design goals are diametrically opposed. |
***
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This is complicated by the fact that the majority of players who participated in CoH PvP were not interested in good PvP play. They weren't interested in a balanced enviroment, and there stands a stark disconnect between the likes of Macskull and Conflict, and the actual development staff. The PvPer's largely want OMGWTFBBQ, I GANKED U HARD IN THE @$$ IM AWSUM YU SUK MAH... I'm sure you can fill in the rest. Ergo, the PvPer's, or rather the vocal PvPer's on the forums, want an imbalanced enviroment similar to Ultima Online. |
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| Well, thankfully, Castle and the rest of the development staff is smarter than that. Castle seems to have a handle on good PvP requiring that the PvP game be different from the PvE game. Issue 13 was a step in the right direction for where PvP play needs to go. |
The rest about Tabula Rasa is probably accurate. Sure why not? I'd say CoX dev's failing repeatedly at implementing any kind of sound pvp system is as much a reason for the hesitation of further pvp development, but who knows.
Pvp is a very large draw of consumers, even if they don't really partake in it much. Just the option of it is likely to have someone pick up a game as opposed to a game without it. If CoX devs could create a successful pvp environment in the 6 years they have to do it, I'm sure NCsoft would pony up the funds to support it. As of right now though, the utter fail they have put forth would be akin to NCsoft throwing away money.
The argument that je_saist presents crushes exactly what CoX brings to the table: diversity. The different AT's bring something else to the game, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, and for the most part, that's a GOOD thing for PvP.
Blasters should be glass cannons. They pack a lot of punch and can't take it. That's what the entire Archetype is designed for. Yet in i13 PvP, Blasters are the most damaging and are running around with 40% resists (that get DR'd down to 30ish).
Controllers should be a control/support AT that does average damage but can totally disrupt and ruin your day. Now they're nothing more than support toons, what with mez being broken. Sure their mezzes are more powerful than your typical mez (other than from a Dom), but they still aren't nearly as powerful as they should be.
Limited/broken mez mechanics, global resists, diminishing returns, travel suppression, heal decay, and damage that is totally based on activation times have made damage the most important thing in PvP. Sure, Emps are very useful and some disruption toons can be useful, but they still need damage on their team in the worst way. That's not unlike PvE, but it's amplified in PvP.
My point is that i13 PvP has taken away from CoH/CoV the dynamic that made it interesting, strategic, and diverse.
Of course, most people who PvP know this.
Lot of references to skill based games. OK, make CoV PVP a skill based system. Ranged attacks get a 3-D reticle. Chance to hit is based on how much of the opponent is inside the reticle. AIM and other to hit powers make your reticle bigger. Distance makes the reticle smaller.
Melee reticles are 3-D AoEs based around the character. Hit success depends on how close the opponent is to the center of the AoE reticle.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
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Good post, and great closing statement. I agree.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
As of right now though, the utter fail they have put forth would be akin to NCsoft throwing away money.
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Here is what bridges PvE to PvP... In it's oldest and most basic form. It is what I use when building a toon for PvP. It is also what I often base PvP success on.
From paraginWiki and also found on the character creation screen:
Blaster:The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. This hero can deal a ton of damage from either a distance or up-close, but he must be careful because he's somewhat fragile compared to other heroes. The Blaster can't stand toe to toe with most opponents for long. His best defense is a great offense!
Controller:The Controller is at the same time the weakest and yet the most powerful of the hero Archetypes. The Controller has few offensive attacks and possesses the fewest Hit Points. But the Controller has access to a range of powers that no one else does. Armed with these powers, a Controller can affect the behavior of villains, from freezing them in place, to putting them to sleep, to routing them away. Armed with such abilities, the Controller is the backbone for any super group, but the Controller often depends upon teammates for protection.
Defender:The Defender tends to help his allies and attack his foes from a distance. The Defender excels at powers that assist friends, but can also hinder his enemies. The Defender is able to attack at range, however, the Defender is not built for hand to hand. He might be able to dodge a few attacks, but the Defender won't last for long. |
Scrapper:The Scrapper is a fierce melee combatant. In hand to hand, no other hero can compare. But the Scrapper is not as resilient as the Tanker, and might find himself in a little trouble if he heedlessly wades into combat. The Scrapper's aptitude for melee is countered by a total lack of distance attacks. Scrappers possess Critical Strike capability. Their melee attacks have a chance to sometimes do double damage.
Tanker:The Tanker can take it and dish it out all at once. The Tanker primarily can absorb vast amounts of damage, and hold his own in a fist fight. But the Tanker lacks any long range punch. The Tanker would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway.
Brute:Brutes live to fight, and as a Brute, you will revel in hand-to-hand combat. With strong offensive power sets designed to inflict pain and impressive defenses to take it, you're the best there is in a straight melee fight. Protracted battles only make you mad, and the madder you get, the more damaging your attacks become. You do lack ranged attacks, which could leave you vulnerable to hit-and-run tactics without allies to cover you.
Corruprtor:Corruptors twist the forces of the universe to do their bidding. As a Corruptor, you might strike your foes down with blasts of fire, entomb them in ice, infect them with radiation, or curse them with pure darkness. As your foes are weakened, your Scourge ability kicks in, increasing your damage to an enemy as their hit points drop. You can even impart a portion of your twisted power to your allies to protect them from harm, heal them, or increase the damage they deal. This wide array of abilities comes at a price. Your defenses aren't strong, and you can quickly attract the ire of your enemies if you aren't careful.
Dominator:As a Dominator, you control a devastating combination of control and assault powers. A Dominator can freeze foes in place, render them unconscious, or cause them to flee in terror. Dominators can also smite their foes with a selection of single-target melee and ranged attacks, albeit not with the same power as a Corruptor. However, each time a Dominator attacks, he comes closer to unleashing his true sadistic power of Domination. With so much emphasis on diverse offensive powers, Dominators lack in defenses and work best with teammates who can provide protection.
Mastermind:As a Mastermind, you excel at using others to do your dirty work. Perhaps you build killer robots, command deadly ninja, order hardened soldiers or street thugs, or summon the undead to do your bidding. Whatever your choice, you have an army of minions at your beck and call. You can summon them when needed, order them to work your will, and even use your powers to enhance them or weaken your foes. The Mastermind is a difficult class to play, often demanding constant attention to control your minions and stave off the retribution of your enemies.
Stalker:Skill can divert clumsy raw power, and precisely applied force can solve many problems. As a Stalker, this is the core of your specialty. You do your best work when attacking from ambush, and can even hide in plain sight to escape foes. Deadly attacks and good defenses make you a dangerous combatant and assassin, but you can be overwhelmed if you're not careful.
It is a community driven deviance from our designed roles that causes PvP to have a completely different system. Actually, it's more a matter of different values and definitions, not a different system altogether. Strengths and weaknesses remain the same. The roles of each AT remain the same. Even more so than in PvE. Changes made were done so to build upon this and should continue to do so IMO... just like in PvE. (example: In PvE some time ago... Tankers got too strong and independant... so Devs nerfed/made them more dependant on others)
Just beacuse smart players can find a way to be completely independant doesn't mean the developers of the game should build around this. IOs allowed a choice. Many saw and see them as a way to be independant of others. Way too many followed this example. Way too many encourage this foul destructive approach.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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lol hyper....this just about sums it up.|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
Actually, it's more a matter of different values and definitions, not a different system altogether. Strengths and weaknesses remain the same. The roles of each AT remain the same.
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The last sentence is just....wow. Has this guy even played this game?
So much potential in this thread... wait.. we can't have that!!
Time to dUMB it DOwn!!!!!!
Don't let the Smoooooove Taste fool you.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Dear Dahjee,
1. Some of those descriptions do not fully apply to PvP.
2. Can't blame the community for design flaws and neglect.
3. Please explain how strengths and weaknesses have stayed the same?
4. Please explain how the roles of each AT have stayed the same?
5. Please explain how these changes have helped each AT and powerset?
6. Please explain how these changes have helped my cold/* controller?
7. Please explain how these changes have helped my kin/* def?
8. Please explain how these changes have helped my stone/* tank?
9. Please explain how these changes have helped my */sonic troller?
*That AT list goes on and on but I'll let you answer those first*
10. Noone is/was asking for each AT and set to be able to function independently.
11. I'm sorry that you see play options as a "foul destructive approach" lol.
12. Castle did not approve of all of the changes made to i13. Look it up yourself.
13. You are pretty clueless about why we have i13 PvP 2.0 and PvP in general. If you think you are not clueless (lol), then please give me a complete run down of how i13 came to pass, the reasons for it, and how it has globally improved pvp interest and participation?
14. Even reactor was smart enough to shut up and learn.
15. You were farmed in RV on your 50 traps def sitting in a pill box surrounded by a team of heroes.
OI
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I will answer them all if you are seriously wanting to know... but you aren't so it would be another tl:dr post by me that gets ignored completely and loses out to the ease and satisfaction of throwing insults and makin funnies.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
Dear Dahjee,
1. Some of those descriptions do not fully apply to PvP. 2. Can't blame the community for design flaws and neglect. 3. Please explain how strengths and weaknesses have stayed the same? 4. Please explain how the roles of each AT have stayed the same? 5. Please explain how these changes have helped each AT and powerset? 6. Please explain how these changes have helped my cold/* controller? 7. Please explain how these changes have helped my kin/* def? 8. Please explain how these changes have helped my stone/* tank? 9. Please explain how these changes have helped my */sonic troller? *That AT list goes on and on but I'll let you answer those first* 10. Noone is/was asking for each AT and set to be able to function independently. 11. I'm sorry that you see play options as a "foul destructive approach" lol. 12. Castle did not approve of all of the changes made to i13. Look it up yourself. 13. You are pretty clueless about why we have i13 PvP 2.0 and PvP in general. If you think you are not clueless (lol), then please give me a complete run down of how i13 came to pass, the reasons for it, how it has globally improved pvp interest and participation? |
Once you start to dumb a topic down... I grab my popcorn and prepare to make fools of your ignorance. If you can be objective... and maybe repress some of the emotional hurt and pain that I13 caused you... we can indeed have this conversation, and I will be more than happy to elaborate.
I will give you a hint though: the keyword is Dependancy.
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Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
15. You were farmed in RV on your 50 traps def sitting in a pill box surrounded by a team of heroes.
OI |
[woot: 700th post!]
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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I asked so that means I want you to answer if you are capable. |
Originally Posted by Dahjee
I will answer them all if you are seriously wanting to know... but you aren't so it would be another tl:dr post by me that gets ignored completely and loses out to the ease and satisfaction of throwing insults and makin funnies.
Once you start to dumb a topic down... I grab my popcorn and prepare to make fools of your ignorance. If you can be objective... and maybe repress some of the emotional hurt and pain that I13 caused you... we can indeed have this conversation, and I will be more than happy to elaborate. I will give you a hint though: the keyword is Dependancy. |
The only things dumb around here is your advice and pvp input. Your post history proves me right.
Go ahead and elaborate your wisdom on us o' enlightened one.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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lol you talk like I13 affected us in some way we can't get over. Guess what genius...we're still good players, just like we were before I13. Yeah, the game is worse, but it's ok because we still win. You're still horrible and do nothing but die any time you set foot in a zone. But hey, congrats on not being affected by I13. You've "adjusted" from a bad player to a bad player. You should make some more posts about it, so you can "educate" everybody.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
and maybe repress some of the emotional hurt and pain that I13 caused you... .
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i13 PvP isn't as good as it was, but the changes weren't all bad and other MMOs' PvP is worse so folks came back.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Here lies the contradiction and cause of much frustration.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
lol you talk like I13 affected us in some way we can't get over. Guess what genius...we're still good players, just like we were before I13. Yeah, the game is worse, but it's ok because we still win.
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Yes, you are correct and I agree! There are many good players left among us. Players that can make just about anything work and get a kill or add usefulness to a team. Yet here on the boards it is the "good build" that is preached above all else. Any good player (like yourself I'm assuming) knows that a good build doesn't = a good player. It helps, but in doing so it can turn a bad player into a very dependant, not good... player. Waiting on the next FoTM or Exploit/Bug yet to be fixed etc... waiting on instructions...
When I say "preached" I don't mean literally. I mean this constant need to assume "one" is best and better than all... ignoring the plain fact that what's best can change readily in PvP. Ignoring the fact that it IS indeed possible to make things work... if you become good.
What is so wrong with saying ATs have a specific purpose in PvP?
Finally, I find it ironic that those who are so right... those you beleive Max no matter what they tell you... are also those who will say PvP is Bad. Like, peeps are only doing the things they suggest, and have been doing so for over a year now! Slowly new breakthroughs emerge when the *** could of bust wide open long ago. I'm waiting and getting impatient. Continue to call me crazy.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Why do I read Dahjee's posts hoping one will make sense? I must be hungry, gonna get some dinner.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Of course it's possible. It's also possible to drive a Geo Metro in a Formula 1 race. And a really good driver could perhaps even win, if he's going against 10 year old kids that have never driven a car before.|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
Ignoring the fact that it IS indeed possible to make things work... if you become good.
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But when a new driver comes in and asks "hey, what kind of car should I drive in this Formula 1 race?", you tell them that basically any car will do, which is just not true. He definitely needs a good car to stand a chance.
Now if it was a top player asking for the advice, you'd have a point. But a top player wouldn't ask for the advice in the first place, so it doesn't matter.
Also, I don't "believe what others tell me". I've PvP'd in this game longer than pretty much everybody else left on these forums. Yes, longer than Conflict, barrier, and all the others. I don't need to listen to what anybody says to have an opinion. The reason I like those guys is because I know I can count on them to not mis-educate any new players, but to tell it like it is.
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lolwhut? Don't tell me it's possible to make a BA/Stone Brute work in PvP. Or an Elec/Ice Blaster. There have always been certain builds that were bad for PvP, even before i13. The problem is that because of i13, there's a great many more builds that are bad for PvP. The goal was to increase diversity in PvP and make it easier to adapt to for newcomers. The only thing it did was nearly eliminate diversity all together.|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
When I say "preached" I don't mean literally. I mean this constant need to assume "one" is best and better than all... ignoring the plain fact that what's best can change readily in PvP. Ignoring the fact that it IS indeed possible to make things work... if you become good.
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| What is so wrong with saying ATs have a specific purpose in PvP? |
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It's like watching a train wreck. You know it's bad, you know what'll happen, but you just can't take your eyes off. lol
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Originally Posted by Slax
Why do I read Dahjee's posts hoping one will make sense? I must be hungry, gonna get some dinner.
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I don't PVP in this game thought I would like to. The problem like many I don't like the PVP rules. Why?
Well the basic is this from level 1-14 I learn a the game mechanics. I get used to said powers how they perform. What they can do to said foes.
Then level 15 and going into Bloody Bay. WHAT THE HELL! What I spent getting used to changes. It's a whole new system to get used to.
Much like driving when someone learns to drive an Automatic transmission and then they sit into a Manual Transmission car. This change is what bothers me I simply don't enjoy the changing systems when going from a PVE to a PVP Zone. Yes people had said the technical flaws in PVP I'm not going to bother with that.
Really who does? It's how it FEELS how it PLAYS and the mentality we players get from it. The way it seems to me is we have not one City of Heroes/Villains but Two. The PVE CoX and the PVP CoX.
Okay this Rant is over. Am I wrong?
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670