Good PvP topic I stumbled across in the suggestions thread.

Progress!

It's fair to assume that those who come to the boards looking for advice don't know as much as the people that are here to help. I think it's also fair to say that it is better to encourage these players to do the same as the Vets. It's how I leraned.. it's how you learned. Doing the opposite contributes to what I consider to be a dumbing down of the PvP community.


Holes and Gaps were widened in many builds. Weaknesses that cannot be made up for with IOing. Builds that suffer the least of this became or become FoTM. Builds that suffer the most get deemed bad. Understandable to a certain extent... but what bad really means in this case is that you'd need x y and z around you to succeed. Similar to the world of PvE.

You look at PvP and see a great many more builds that are bad for PvP after I13...

I saw that too. Now here is the profound part: The abundance of more "Bad" set combos is exactly what creates diversity and allows for adaptation. For every weakness there is a counter to make up for it... and this counter is often found in another's set/set combo. Thoughts and threads rarely make it to this realm of comparisons though. Easier to say things are bad or good. Easy to look at mids and see that this set does 3.9% less DPS or hear about the loophole that is found in this set etc... Smart Teaming atm is seen as stacking many of the same builds, not so much synergizing vastly different builds... Again undestandable but this is not forced upon us or the design. It's just the easy way to do it.

Just as many or more as before.... There are simply less people capable or willing to fill them all atm.

That's an oxymoron sentence if I ever read one.

That's nice in theory. In reality what happens is a person makes a horrible toon, comes to the forums asking about it, gets told by you that yeah, that toon will be just fine.....spends months leveling it and IO'ing it.....then finally tries to PvP on it and gets owned....not because he's a bad player, but because he's a new player playing a really bad toon that even a good player would have trouble on. He says "man this PvP sucks", and leaves the game.

That's not what we want.

A disruption-based team (usually centered around an MM or two for all the extra targets they present), especially with a few Stormies, can work on smaller maps but it's still relying on the Emps for healing and Blasters or Stalkers (or both) for damage. On larger maps, the jump-style team (Emps, Blasters, Rad) will win against a disruption-based team because of the mez changes particularly (a case could be made for bringing Brutes to counter their Blasters, but then when the other team brings Brutes you're essentially turning an 8v8 into a 7v7 or 6v6 because they'll spend a lot of the match taunted onto each other).

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

lol

Fixed the part that was too far from the truth. I don't do that.

I will say this again, and if I'm wrong... let me know why please. Getting owned (enough to ragequit) in PvP is often due to one's lack of basic PvP skill/tatics/knowledge... not simply the the build they are on.

In your example it seems this player spent months leveling and IOing a toon without PvPing with it along the way, has hopes to be good in PvP just because of a build, and you say this is not a bad player. I disagree. Good players don't have trouble on most toons they play... they use them for what they are good for. They remain aware of what their weaknesses are, and they at least know how to not die. Great players do this while also recognizing the same in anyone and everyone around them, and they can adjust accordingly.

I don't want anyone to leave the game just like you. I happen to think more would PvP if they could retain their PvE roles even if some of the power mechanics change. I happen to PvP in just such a way as indicated by my original post in this thread, and I'm certain i'm no the only one.

If the given description and design of each AT does not hold 100% true in PvP... then I encourage us all to re-write them for the public PvP style without the drama. Give Purpose back to each AT and you might find that many set/set combos are capable of fulfilling that purpose.

This sounds suspiciously like a "bring back I12 PvP" post.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

Sadly, that ship sailed with Issue 13.

I'm levelling and IOing a Sonic/Sonic Corr on Infinity with full knowledge she'll never see any serious PvP play because it's been compleetely neutered:

i)The shields add all of a speck more resists and don't resist Psi
ii)The cage used to be awesome and now they might as well just have the description be: "Pretty graphics surround target for 3-4 seconds, then suppress on same target."
iii)The big bubble doesn't do much, if anything
iv)Siphon does add a little -RES, but Rad is better
v)LOLiquefy in PvP

Again, the ONLY reason I am doing anything with this is I'm bored and have too much infamy and IOs kicking around.

NO ONE should roll a bad toon/powerset combo if they hope to improve their gameplay or their pvp skills. If you want to roll a bad combo because you're bored and have the means, go nuts. I mean, you might still get kills in zones.

But the sad truth is that I13 wrecked the roles we'd all worked hard on for months. There were some awesome Sonics out there, but they're not needed. There were some great Kins, but they're not wanted. The list goes on.

This has been TLDR but I'm waiting for the last few minutes of my hero respec to die down and I'm bored.

Please, please, please, please, please stop waylaying new players into believing their toons have some capacity to resemble their pve functionality. You're just going to get them frustrated when they spend zillions on their favorite hero/vill only to get propelled 50' in the air and instakilled because they don't have enough KB protect or whatever.

If a new player REALLY wants helpful advice, they can drop by Pocket D Freedom on Thursday or Sunday (or really any) night and ask some of the ladder teams some questions. Heck, they can just ask Con, mac, Supermax or anyone here some questions.

But you need to stop your insane crusade of self-victimization and propaganda because you're hurting people who could be helped.

Period.

That's so Virtue.

Do your thing X.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

lolseriousPvP... you mean arena matches right?

Find a Brute... make them your pet. Find a purpose... you probably feel that it is neutered because it can no longer do what it did or it would have did for you under the old system. It's only useless if it isn't used. Sonic Cage may not take players out a fight for example... but can be reserved and used to save lives or stop and Emp from applying a critical heal with good awareness/timing for example. Hell I've used Cage on spike targets in a zone before... just because it made it easier for a PuG to find and target the $Target and attack it together.

Yet the best of us have done so at some point and learned from it enough to reccomend to others what to avoid and so forth. Are you saying that NO ONE should go through what others (good players) have gone through to improve and get better?

Yeah it messed over powers and sets and mobility etc... but not the roles themselves. I13 as I saw it emphasized many of the weaknesses each AT has. Snippet from the last couple of lines from each AT:

Blaster -The Blaster can't stand toe to toe with most opponents for long. His best defense is a great offense!
Controller -the Controller is the backbone for any super group, but the Controller often depends upon teammates for protection.
Defender -the Defender is not built for hand to hand. He might be able to dodge a few attacks, but the Defender won't last for long.
Scrapper -But the Scrapper is not as resilient as the Tanker, and might find himself in a little trouble if he heedlessly wades into combat
Tanker -But the Tanker lacks any long range punch. The Tanker would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway.
Brute -You do lack ranged attacks, which could leave you vulnerable to hit-and-run tactics without allies to cover you.
Corruptor -This wide array of abilities comes at a price. Your defenses aren't strong, and you can quickly attract the ire of your enemies if you aren't careful.
Dominator -With so much emphasis on diverse offensive powers, Dominators lack in defenses and work best with teammates who can provide protection.
Mastermind -Mastermind is a difficult class to play, often demanding constant attention to control your minions and stave off the retribution of your enemies.
Stalker -Deadly attacks and good defenses make you a dangerous combatant and assassin, but you can be overwhelmed if you're not careful.

Each one holds true in PvP no? Is it a surprise that Blasters stand out on blueside when their only weakness encourages them to defeat their target asap. This is appeal, just like the City of Blasters in PvE we all knew 5 years ago. What's missing atm however is the support for those that need it. Not support ATs but general support. Do melee toons kinda suck in PvP? Well they kinda do if their ranged allies don't give a flying *** about them. A defender's description has "farm target" written all over it, yet still scrappers and blasters don't respond to their HP bar, nah they just recommend a better set to play with that won't be dependant on others coming to their aid.|


ATs have seperate roles in PvP... ignoring this is a decision made by the playerbase... not the Devs, and not the design. It's getting old now... and I simply want the nonsense to stop trickling down to players who know no better.

I'm here because I need to be. In time you might understand what that means.

It really is quite sad how pathetically full of himself he is. lol

lololololololololololololol

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

wow....

There's no doubt that some disruption teams can be down right deadly. In i13, my SG played against a team of 2 VEATS, 3 MM's (Storm, TA, and /PD.. yuck), a Brute that just webnaded and taunted all day, and 2 Blasters. It was no fun at all. I think we still won, but it was a very very tedious match.

However, those teams seemed, albeit with trollers, (and this might be just me) to be A LOT more deadly pre-i13. You're so completely right when you say that the i13 mez system changed a lot of that.

Wait.. What? That's like Demon Slayer saying that heroes in RV need him. You're giving people who might want to make a PvP viable toon bad advice.

Mac, is this guy(Dahjee) from your home server? He's a winner. d;D

You got it Mac. Stop being mad at me btw. I need your numbers skills for future posts. I will try and answer to the best of my ability.

I'm decent but I still have questions. Please be objective with me when I ask them.

What's more exciting is that is worked!

lrn!