Good PvP topic I stumbled across in the suggestions thread.
By
black_barrier,
Posted on: 2010-04-08 06:37 in Everything about PvP
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Dude do you think stuff like invisi magically removing travel suppression, EMP arrow being a good hold , Acid arrow not giving you trave suppression etc. makes you crediblle?
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
Terror1, Try to be objective... it will make you smarter. Don't be a hater. Don't allow yourself to believe or disbelieve something here based on the person comes from. It's how they keep you bad.
lol at this point I could say the sky is blue and peeps would find a way to argue. Funny I hear "Bad Advice" being copied from one robot to the next... yet no one is stepping up with any proof to stand behind it. I'm here because of the OP. It is indeed an interesting topic. I think just about everyone else here is here to entertain me with their hate. |
You're pathetically arrogant. There's 2 reasons why nobody can disprove you:
1. We're on a forum about a game. We're not actually in-game right now. And like I've been saying, your argument sounds nice on paper (or text/forum). But it doesn't produce results. And you've yet to prove that it does produce results. So let's flip it: how about you prove that you're right? This whole "prove I'm wrong or else I'm right" idea that you're spewing out is a simple logical fallacy. Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Many are willing to prove you wrong in-game.
2. You don't want to be proven wrong. You could say "the Saints didn't win the Superbowl" and even if I showed you the game you still wouldn't think you were wrong. People can't be corrected if they don't want to be.
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It should... especially when I seem to be the only one aware of these things. I know that I am not though. Beleive it or not I wouldn't waste time to come here and make **** up.|
Originally Posted by Terror1
Dude do you think stuff like invisi magically removing travel suppression, EMP arrow being a good hold , Acid arrow not giving you trave suppression etc. makes you crediblle?
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Originally Posted by Spizzie
You're pathetically arrogant. There's 2 reasons why nobody can disprove you:
1. We're on a forum about a game. We're not actually in-game right now. And like I've been saying, your argument sounds nice on paper (or text/forum). But it doesn't produce results. And you've yet to prove that it does produce results. So let's flip it: how about you prove that you're right? This whole "prove I'm wrong or else I'm right" idea that you're spewing out is a simple logical fallacy. Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Many are willing to prove you wrong in-game. 2. You don't want to be proven wrong. You could say "the Saints didn't win the Superbowl" and even if I showed you the game you still wouldn't think you were wrong. People can't be corrected if they don't want to be. |
You want to make things into right/wrong. I just want to discuss the topic... because it's a forum... not a court.
The only reason I taunted peeps to prove me wrong is because all I hear is blah blah you give bad advice when I rarely advise anyone to do anything. This has been repeated by me several times yet still those who crusade against me will have peeps thinking otherwise. So in an attempt to get rid of yet another baseless excuse used to try and make me look dumb, lol. I offered peeps here a chanceto show all this Bad Advice I seem to spit.
If I am wrong about so much and those who seem to think so are right..... Then why is PvP so screwed up atm? Go on... say it so I can laugh.
Oh wait... good advice here is something that can produce results. Who has been advising us since I13? How has that worked out for everyone? Huh? I see the results... do you?
You are quite twisted to think that I'm new to this. It's laughable at times to see peeps forget that I've been PvPing in this game since arenas went to beta and that I do indeed know my ****.
Don't let the smoove taste fool you.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Yeah, you're right. The reason PvP has problems is because of the advice we've been giving since I13, not because of the actual changes that happened then. Makes sense. How could anybody doubt your knowledge?
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
Who has been advising us since I13? How has that worked out for everyone? Huh? I see the results... do you?
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i thought it was because i was a dick?|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Yeah, you're right. The reason PvP has problems is because of the advice we've been giving since I13, not because of the actual changes that happened then. Makes sense. How could anybody doubt your knowledge?
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god, reasons change every week, i can't keep up with this. /wrists.
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| Don't let the smoove taste fool you. |
so ive been reading alot since i dont play nearly as much as i used to...
posters like dahjee are actually a naturally occuring phenomenon in history. in situations where an injustice has occured sometimes the victim decides to rebel against the system. sometimes the rebellion will grow as others too realize that they are being taken advantage of. when the rebellion grows too large though it in turn can spawn rebellions against it. dahjee sees all the helpful advice from the pvp community as the institution that is victimizing him. he fails to see that we are infact a rebellion from the institution that is the i13 rule set which victimized us.
ps. dahjee can be replaced by many forum names that have filled this role over the years(zen shadow, galactor, etc..)
pps to dahjee, please dont take offense its just my analysis of forum politics. i dont know you nor attempt to cast judgement of you or your rivals as good/bad, right/wrong.
ppps je_saist is full of **** and is the one person ive ever ignored on the boards since 2004.
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Put the bottle down this time and try to answer my questions sober. I want detailed answers to my questions not general statements. Be specific.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
True Indeed, they do not fully. They do however provide a foundation on which to build upon or base "Success/Failure" on. If you have a desire to change something for PvP for a particular AT... I promise that emphasizing these decripstions' contradictions will help more so than random PvP wants and hopes based on emotions or what you see currently.
Um. Yes I can. Devs don't tell us what or how to play... Other players do. Once they convince us that they know what they're talking about. Bad players fall for anything they say. Even good Players recommend out of a biased and skewed perception that is far too often based on lolserious arena PvP, where players have the luxury of actually Picking who they want to PvP with. Despite the reduction in effectiveness all ATs still retain their niche. Example: Defenders are weaker than most as offensive PvPers, yet they do indeed still provde the highest numbers for support, and yes they can easily be made farm targets if no one is willing to look after their heavily sought HP bar. This is easily comparable to PvE. Sonic/ and Cold/ for example offer DR'ed buffs far below those cataloged Pre-I13, but those DR'ed buffs are higher than any Troller or Corr can acheive. In a team, keeping your defender alive can be critical once you realize how to get the most out of it's specific purpose.... ignoring a particular defender's purpose is comparable to noobs that can only survive with a healzor at their side in PvE. Scrappers and Blasters and Stalkers retain their primary roles in PvP to the "T." Their appeal to PvP newbs and PvP noobs is no different than in PvE either. The appeal stems from a basic independancy to get a kill. Obviously the promotion and advertising of these ATs and their designed roles attract bad players to take the easy route... since the easy route atm is anythng that leads to an easy kill, more rep, and/or more dropped IOs. You all can read these descriptions the same as me... I want to avod another TL: DR post. so I will elaborate on other ATs if prompted. The overall point is that stenghths and weaknesses weren't erased but forgotten or ignored... even made to seem non-existent in order to justify a "uselessnes" label by the community. Think closely about building a TF/SF at 3am in the morning.... Sure you got peeps that want to join.... but what do you Need??? More Aggro control? You need more damage? Perhaps more CC or heals... Maybe some -Regen or some other form of debuffing. Maybe even someone that can rez??? You may consider all of the above to be pointless in PvP considering the current ruleset but these roles are not useless. They are simply used less... In the absence of these roles we've created replacement/stacked roles to fill the part. In PvP... just like in PvE... A smart leader will recognize a team's weaknesses and recruit accordinlgly, or to the best of their ability given what may be out there. (Zone PvP) They will adapt to what has become the team's strongest liabilty or strength and coach/lead the team accordingly. "Not -so -Smart" leaders seem to wait for copy/paste builds they've ben told are effective... these peeps usually quit or whine when their crutch fails to show up. These (I13) changes helped by revealing to the community EXACTLY what each set could not make up for on it's own. This should of been a sign to seek out the set/set combos that would eliminate weaknesses and stregthen strengths within each powerst spoke of... but that didn't happen. Blind and Blatant avoidance of certain sets occurred and was encouraged. This phenomenon was not helpful to vets or newbies... nor was it 100% necessary post I13. Simple. I13 helped by making the Sets you speak of needed/required more for the survival of sets that require the unique attibutes from each set. If you truly build for slows they will work; Sacrafices to other aspects of PvP must be made though to make this purpose possible. If all else fails, then stacking what slows you have with another who has the same desired purpose takes priority. WTF cares what was asked for. Your $15 dollars/Month goes to the people who make the game... deal with it or dwell on it I always say... live in the past or look towards the furtue is another way to put it. Fact is that the introduction of IOs in I9 allowed many players to ignore the dependancies they had come to rely on... and I13 reinforced this menatlity. Personally, I feel this is more obvious on Blueside, but I've never felpt forcd by the devs to do anything. The statement reffered to is based on Forum behavior and given advice. When a system is intoduced with the purpose of offering enjoyable PVP to the masses.... and the powers that influence actually encourage the playerbase to do the exact opposite... What can be said about the new system? How can change occur when it is quite obvious that adaptaon never occured. I don't think anyone approved of all the changes... Change is not matter of time nor need. It is a matter of "What it will take" for that change to occur. <--- Real Shi*T. I won't go down that road. To sum it up for you though.... Devs saw money in making PvP more appealing to PvErs... they looked for and sought ideas to get them (PvErs) involved.... made the mistake of asking too mny Serious PvPers what would work. ignored then and based changes on what would really help... and watched as disgruntled PvPers raged about how the changes didn;t helpthem get better. Close enogh I'm sure. Nice edit: who are you talking about??? As pointed out earlier. You are confused and therefore likely to be a Robot.... dependant on another to tell you what to feel and think and say. I have yet to PvP with my /DP defender in RV. If possible... please encourage this poor Trapster you pseak of to holla at me via @Dahjee Global. It is obvious to me.. that he/she is doing it wrong. TL;DR you say.....? Perhaps it's better that way. Then again... you all asked for it, so keep it OP related and respond accoridingky if possible. ... or provide the standard "I hate Dahjee" post to cover for an inabilty to prove me wrong. |
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I hate being the bad guy, but I admit it's kinda cool being the anti-anti-establishment... as someone once put it.|
Originally Posted by Solo_One
dahjee sees all the helpful advice from the pvp community as the institution that is victimizing him. he fails to see that we are infact a rebellion from the institution that is the i13 rule set which victimized us.
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Oh well. No point in turning back now I say...
Reason for I13 PvP:
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The goal is for players to be able to bring any AT and powerset combination into PVP and to be competitive and have fun! [/quote]
The part no one will tell you is that I13 was actually also aimed at eliminating high-end lolserious PvP.... (moreso the High-End lol serious PvP mentality)because it wasn't fun for like the 99% of the playerbase. What was left of those serious PvPers that didn't ragequit went on to misunderstand the new system almost completely. Sure they understood the changes and how they worked, but not the purpose of the changes and how exactly it reinforced the quoted statement above. It was a whole new ruleset based around the purpose quoted above: Competitive powerset combinations and fun! The Core of PvPers at the time were blinded from seeing past the numbers, and due to their high standing rep from being so super awesome in arena, their misguided advice to the masses was sucked up anyway.
They had no idea..... quick example: This one from Mac:
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Originally Posted by macskull
That doesn’t make sense to me. The fact that sturdier ATs like Tankers benefit more from external buffs than do their more fragile counterparts like Blasters confounds me – Tankers are already ahead of the game in the survivability department simply because of their higher base HP and stronger defense/resistance values. But now you tell me that they should benefit more from external buffs than do the lower-HP ATs with weaker defenses? Maybe I’m missing something here.
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The hardcore PvPers... the one that were not the intended focus of the changes (hint hint) someohow convinced themselves that even being 1-2% of the CoX population meant they new what was best for 100% of the players of this game.... The audacity I know right? They quickly determined which powers and powerset were most powerful... again... and that my friend is what they took to the boards with. No, not the Powerset Combinations needed but the same simplified approach as they had prior to I13.
They went on to lead the commmunity and encourage the exact opposite of what I13 intended.
I could go on but I think I'll let the truf... and the rage settle for a moment.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Dev quote on this plz|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
The part no one will tell you is that I13 was actually also aimed at eliminating high-end lolserious PvP...
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A few things in here. First is how much sense does it take to have a very small niche in a very small niche game and completely ignore it. I could see if we had a larger portion of pvpers back before the changes but once you are dealing with such a small sample population retention should be a key goal. Yes adding new people should be important as well but not at the cost of the foundation you already have. | The part no one will tell you is that I13 was actually also aimed at eliminating high-end lolserious PvP.... (moreso the High-End lol serious PvP mentality)because it wasn't fun for like the 99% of the playerbase. What was left of those serious PvPers that didn't ragequit went on to misunderstand the new system almost completely. Sure they understood the changes and how they worked, but not the purpose of the changes and how exactly it reinforced the quoted statement above. It was a whole new ruleset based around the purpose quoted above: Competitive powerset combinations and fun! The Core of PvPers at the time were blinded from seeing past the numbers, and due to their high standing rep from being so super awesome in arena, their misguided advice to the masses was sucked up anyway. |
And another point it wasn't aimed at eliminating high end pvp, though it was a consequence. It was aimed at elimating the gap between high end players and beginners/novices. What it did instead was make breaking in even harder. Which is what they were told over and over in beta would happen.
Next lets cover the word fun. When you enter such a subjective word into what a goal is it can make things pretty dicey. See what is actually fun for most pvpers in most pvp games is winning. You can say you have fun just playing or teaming with friends or whatever. The fact will remain that a good many people who pvp of any kind in any game do it for the rush of winning. As a matter of fact the reason why old pvp was so unfun to the casual player was the fact they didn't win. And the reason why it was believed that they didn't win was because someone had a better build or the right powersets. When in fact the truth was more times than not it was the beginners fault for refusing to team, or come prepared(bring inspirations and use them). The biggest change the current system brought about was no longer needing breakfrees or mez protection based buffs. While as a quick thought this seems like a good idea now we have a system with randomness to it that easily frustrates the new player because they can literally do nothing about mez regardless the toon the buffs or the inspirations.
As for the sucking up the misguided advice part. Well, alot of the people who have been around for any length of time that stuck it out and learned the new system are still the best sources of info for pvp advice. Yes it can be cookie cutter sometimes, but any form of competition is like that. There is a reason the nba almost runs 2 guards 2 forwards 1 center. There is a reason no one runs the wishbone full time in the nfl. In competition you use what gives you the best chance at success. Yes there is always some people who are just there to say they played, just know they are the exception not the rule. This is not grade school sports were no one keeps track of the score and we win just by playing. This is people who pay money to enjoy their hobby. And i assure you a good many left that pvp winning is there goal.
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Seems odd/confusing when you're looking at the numbers but makes complete sense when looking at roles and AT purpose. A Tanker's Purpose is to most survivable right? That's not the role of a Blaster. I13 emphasized things like this in so so many ways it's not even funny. He did realize though that Blasters retain a decent bonus from +Damage buffs though... The role of damage dealer is known quite well. The hardcore PvPers... the one that were not the intended focus of the changes (hint hint) someohow convinced themselves that even being 1-2% of the CoX population meant they new what was best for 100% of the players of this game.... The audacity I know right? They quickly determined which powers and powerset were most powerful... again... and that my friend is what they took to the boards with. No, not the Powerset Combinations needed but the same simplified approach as they had prior to I13. They went on to lead the commmunity and encourage the exact opposite of what I13 intended. I could go on but I think I'll let the truf... and the rage settle for a moment. |
Let me bring you some earth shattering news dodgy. Tanks always benefited more from buffs than blasters. Tanks have always been harder to kill. The only thing that was bad about them before was the lack of range. And also now more people seem to take note of taunt and use it, though it was pretty useful before in a zone environment. They did succeed in making them appear in high end matches, though a good amount of time could be spent deciding if that is a good thing or not.
As for the elder statesmen of pvp encouraging the exact opposite of the intended pvp2.0 change why don't you go rage on the devs some. The whole reason stated for this change was to bring the pvers into pvp. Guess what did not happen, guess what was never going to happen. Sure you are going to get some converts, but we were going to get them anyways. Their changes were a failure not because of what we used the system for but because they honestly thought changing the system would bring pvers in. You can not make someone have the competitive edge. A good many people who play this game struggle with the pve content which is a good deal easier and has reams more info available on how to be successful. It is to much to expect that they want to learn a whole new system, and be unsuccessful at it while learning. All with the chance they still may not be good at it once they learn it. A vast majority of people who pvp, in this or any game know they are going to be pvpers from the first kill. You either get a rush from it and enjoy it or you hate it.
When someone hates something about the only way to get them to do it anyway is give them money. I don't see that ever happening, so you are stuck with us dodgy. No amount of you raging against us will ever change that. And even if one of us takes a break there will be another person just like us to fill the role. The same kind of people tend to drift to the same areas. Pvp attracts arrogant outspoken people. Some of these people have the knowledge and patience to learn their craft and share it. These are the people see here most often, helping out and offering ideas. The others are generally in zone raging about how someone did x to beat them and never actually bothers to learn the system and improve. You have as much chance getting us to 'learn to think outside the box' as getting a fightclubber to use inspirations. That would be zero in case you want to keep tying. You will not change the way things are, you won't change the way things will be. Your best hope is to think you have already won some moral victory and hang your hat on the fact that you at least tried even if no one really bought into it. Either way the more you post the more heart ache you bring yourself, and seeing you are a pvper I will assume you hate to lose.
Do yourself and us a favor, and stop respawning.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
Dev quote on this plz
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I'm not here to troll. Don't make this about me so much.... make it about the stuff I said if possible. I show up to discuss the topic, if what I say is debatable... then debate it. don't turn the thread topic into Dahjee posts, or hide behind wanna-be funny replys. If Iwanted to read pictures... I'd read baby books.
As far as a quote well the intial results of I13 speak for themselves. Test league go boom!? There is really only one Dev quote needed for my simple point. It is the one in my previous post that stated the purpose of I13... You must be honest and ask yourself if that purpose really fit the purpose of high end serious arena I pwnt datazz PvP boi mentality! Nah. It's was and sadly still basically remains a purpose and practice of seeking the absoulte best sets/sets to win matches. Getting the options to revert back to something at least similar to I12 didn't help the matter... but I was happy to see some of the QQ'ing stop.
Btw did you here about the Incarnate system coming soon? You know I'm sure hope they thought to plan ahead and make needed changes in PvP before dropping this abilty to make players even stronger on us! I'm almost certain ths plan would likely invlove this preparation to almost look like a nerf... kinda like ED before IOs and such.
With all the great advice and suoerior common knowledge here on the boards though, I'm sure the silly devs could never think of doing something like this... cause you know the guys here PvP more than they do and stuff.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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The stuff you say is lolz-worthy at best, that better?
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
I'm not here to troll. Don't make this about me so much.... make it about the stuff I said if possible.
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Wow, your logic is simply infallible. I have an analogy. The reason we have pollution is not a side effect of the factories and cars. It was actually the goal all along....to have a lot of pollution. Because hey, we have pollution, right? So that means it was intended, right?|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
As far as a quote well the intial results of I13 speak for themselves. Test league go boom!? .
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Man, you don't just reinvent PvP. You also reinvent logic and reality too, huh?
Simple logic lesson for you: Just because something happened, doesn't mean it was intended. Usually they teach this kind of stuff around kindergarden level, but you were probably too busy being an all-knowing old-school PvP'er in CoH to pay attention.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
I'm not here to troll. Don't make this about me so much.... make it about the stuff I said if possible. I show up to discuss the topic, if what I say is debatable... then debate it. don't turn the thread topic into Dahjee posts, or hide behind wanna-be funny replys. If Iwanted to read pictures... I'd read baby books.
As far as a quote well the intial results of I13 speak for themselves. Test league go boom!? There is really only one Dev quote needed for my simple point. It is the one in my previous post that stated the purpose of I13... You must be honest and ask yourself if that purpose really fit the purpose of high end serious arena I pwnt datazz PvP boi mentality! Nah. It's was and sadly still basically remains a purpose and practice of seeking the absoulte best sets/sets to win matches. Getting the options to revert back to something at least similar to I12 didn't help the matter... but I was happy to see some of the QQ'ing stop. Btw did you here about the Incarnate system coming soon? You know I'm sure hope they thought to plan ahead and make needed changes in PvP before dropping this abilty to make players even stronger on us! I'm almost certain ths plan would likely invlove this preparation to almost look like a nerf... kinda like ED before IOs and such. With all the great advice and suoerior common knowledge here on the boards though, I'm sure the silly devs could never think of doing something like this... cause you know the guys here PvP more than they do and stuff. |
If a PvP'er doesn't want to compete in high-end Arena PvP because they aren't good enough, nobody is going to make them. If they don't want to, they can just go in Zones or Arena and fight players of equal skill.
So why ruin high-end PvP? Because some PvE'er walked into an arena match or a zone and got farmed, and then didn't bother asking around how to be competetive? So instead of PvE'ers taking some time to get good or better at PvP, the devs created an entirely new system that was dumbed down to their level. Yet, it's harder now to learn new PvP than it was pre-i13. New PvP'ers at least new how their powers worked. Now they walk into a zone and their powers don't work the same and sometimes (like if they play a Troller), their entire AT doesn't work the same.
You think people who were really good at PvP just were granted their skills by the CoH gods?They learned to PvP just like anyone learns to PvE. And if someone else wanted to be that good, they could learn too and there has always been plenty of willing teachers.
If your theory about them wanting to ruin high-end PvP is so solid, then why not ruin high-end PvE. There are players out there in PvE that are far better than newbies; yet those newbies might one day learn and become good at PvE as well. It just takes patience, a little time, effort, and most importantly, the willingness to learn. The same held true for PvP. Except now, it's harder to get into and learn. And there are now less options (MUCH less) to PvP with. So PvP'ers are stuck giving the same advice. Unlike you, who wants to give bad advice so that you might change the landscape of PvP and have a bunch of gimp toons running around. THEN, it would be diverse. Oh yea, it would. But all those teleporting DB/DA Brutes and flying AR/Traps Corruptors would get torn to pieces when someone with a Fire/EM or Psi/EM Blaster walked in.
I understand that you WANT PvP to be diverse; I do too. But not warning a new player that his/her poorly-built-for-PvP build will get farmed is a lie of omission, and it's pretty unfair to them.
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thats how religions and conspiracy theories get started.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Wow, your logic is simply infallible. I have an analogy. The reason we have pollution is not a side effect of the factories and cars. It was actually the goal all along....to have a lot of pollution. Because hey, we have pollution, right? So that means it was intended, right?
Man, you don't just reinvent PvP. You also reinvent logic and reality too, huh? Simple logic lesson for you: Just because something happened, doesn't mean it was intended. Usually they teach this kind of stuff around kindergarden level, but you were probably too busy being an all-knowing old-school PvP'er in CoH to pay attention. |
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Ask yourself why it became so small Conflict. |
Originally Posted by ConFlict
A few things in here. First is how much sense does it take to have a very small niche in a very small niche game and completely ignore it.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
Next lets cover the word fun. When you enter such a subjective word into what a goal is it can make things pretty dicey. See what is actually fun for most pvpers in most pvp games is winning.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
In competition you use what gives you the best chance at success. Yes there is always some people who are just there to say they played, just know they are the exception not the rule. This is not grade school sports were no one keeps track of the score and we win just by playing. This is people who pay money to enjoy their hobby. And i assure you a good many left that pvp winning is there goal.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
The whole reason stated for this change was to bring the pvers into pvp. Guess what did not happen, guess what was never going to happen.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
It is to much to expect that they want to learn a whole new system, and be unsuccessful at it while learning.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
You will not change the way things are, you won't change the way things will be.
Do yourself and us a favor, and stop respawning. |
My prescence here will influence many in future post to sound less generic and simple when speaking of viabily. The example in you set in zones is literal proof of much my overall points Conflict although I don't expect you to see that.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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An illusion. You're not breaking the mold. At all. | My prescence here will influence many in future post to sound less generic and simple when speaking of viabily. The example in you set in zones is literal proof of much my overall points Conflict although I don't expect you to see that. |
But at least the "new" pvpers that come in and read your (false) statements will come to realize what not to be. You are prime example of that as you've continually proven time and time again by your delusional rebuttals. People in here will TRUST the words and opinions of Mac, Conflict, Barrier, Supermax, and the others that have spent their time and effort into testing and playing PvP.
They will not trust yours. They will only ridicule it. They will cast it aside, and you will nothing more than just an example of what NOT to be in PvP, or in general. The fact that you THINK even remotely that everyone here is raging is a fallacy. The fact that you think you are notorious gives you a sense of pride. Although, I highly doubt that your notoriety is based on your knowledge, but rather, your ignorant and delusional vision of "balance" PvP is so farfetched, that even the noobiest of noobs can understand that what you spew is filled with sewage the likes of a third world country.
Basically, it is all garbage. But hey, keep thinking you're breaking the mold. To us, you are just a form of entertainment we reply to, to boost our Post Count.
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My apologies, I didn't truly mean to suggest that the Devs wanted to ruin high-end competitive PvP as content. As someone pointed out this was more of a consequence. It was the mentality that came along with it that made the gap wider and unfun to a majority of the playerbase.|
Originally Posted by Spizzie
If your theory about them wanting to ruin high-end PvP is so solid, then why not ruin high-end PvE.
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Originally Posted by Spizzie
So PvP'ers are stuck giving the same advice. Unlike you, who wants to give bad advice so that you might change the landscape of PvP and have a bunch of gimp toons running around. THEN, it would be diverse. Oh yea, it would. But all those teleporting DB/DA Brutes and flying AR/Traps Corruptors would get torn to pieces when someone with a Fire/EM or Psi/EM Blaster walked in.
I understand that you WANT PvP to be diverse; I do too. But not warning a new player that his/her poorly-built-for-PvP build will get farmed is a lie of omission, and it's pretty unfair to them. |
Does a gimped toon die repeatedly (compared to getting farmed in PvP) in PvE when on a team of 8? Not likely why? Because they're teamed with people playing thir PvE roles and in doing so make up for the individual weaknesess of that gimpd toon. Would tha gimped toon die repeatedly by stepping out of it's role, and trying to do the same task meant for that same team of 8 in PvE? Probably right?
Diversity is already possible, out there and quite evident especially in zones. It is however not promoted here. The devs will not wave a wand that gets more people to PvP, and they will probably not officially encourage PvErs to PvP. That's our job as a community.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Oh look you didn't give me a dev quote.|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
I'm not here to troll. Don't make this about me so much.... make it about the stuff I said if possible. I show up to discuss the topic, if what I say is debatable... then debate it. don't turn the thread topic into Dahjee posts, or hide behind wanna-be funny replys. If Iwanted to read pictures... I'd read baby books.
As far as a quote well the intial results of I13 speak for themselves. Test league go boom!? There is really only one Dev quote needed for my simple point. It is the one in my previous post that stated the purpose of I13... You must be honest and ask yourself if that purpose really fit the purpose of high end serious arena I pwnt datazz PvP boi mentality! Nah. It's was and sadly still basically remains a purpose and practice of seeking the absoulte best sets/sets to win matches. Getting the options to revert back to something at least similar to I12 didn't help the matter... but I was happy to see some of the QQ'ing stop. Btw did you here about the Incarnate system coming soon? You know I'm sure hope they thought to plan ahead and make needed changes in PvP before dropping this abilty to make players even stronger on us! I'm almost certain ths plan would likely invlove this preparation to almost look like a nerf... kinda like ED before IOs and such. With all the great advice and suoerior common knowledge here on the boards though, I'm sure the silly devs could never think of doing something like this... cause you know the guys here PvP more than they do and stuff. |
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Oh sorry you missed the point. Nice analogy though... |
Originally Posted by Supermax
Wow, your logic is simply infallible. I have an analogy. The reason we have pollution is not a side effect of the factories and cars. It was actually the goal all along....to have a lot of pollution. Because hey, we have pollution, right? So that means it was intended, right?
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
Oh look you didn't give me a dev quote.
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| The goal is for players to be able to bring any AT and powerset combination into PVP and to be competitive and have fun! |
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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dude you're retarded
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
Oh sorry you missed the point. Nice analogy though...
Your right X and I apologize. I assumed you were a reader. Someone will catch you up I'm sure. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
not true.
so not true.
especially in a mixed team.
back in the day i used to drop liquefy patches to set up mind link gathers in i12, or around arbegla's trapper for the -jump. there's at least one video showing how the -jump in liquefy accounts for at least two kills in i10 redside arena matches.
but yeah.. all else is true. lolsonic.