Simply no. XP is one of it's main attractive features, besides the fact you created it!
I can not imagine most of my friends spending a lot of time playing MA with no rewards but tickets, and even they aren't valuable unless you know how best to benefit from them.
I'd personally say removing XP would be the biggest factor in killing MA. I'm not saying it is the biggest factor for MA itself, but it is in terms of safeguarding it's further use.
Fury
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^^This. AE arcs make for a good break from repeating the same content over and over.
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Originally Posted by Mirai
Strangely enough, I use the MA for what it was originally intended: an alternate means of progress in the game. I don't farm or exploit. I like missions with good plot, and I don't mind taking my time to get through them.
So don't take away my XP. It's annoying having to redesign my arcs for the XP nerfs, but I can do it. Take away the XP, and the only reason I'll have to use the MA is to take screenshots in test mode. |
How about a tiered XP penalty?
Standard MA missions would see a -20% XP penalty, while a 'Hall of Fame' gets only a -10% penalty, and a Dev's Choice gets no penalty at all (i.e. a regular mish).
A -20% penalty would seem enough to deter PL'ing off the MA to me (yeah, your XP per minute could still be higher than a normal mission...but it's probably higher on a different "farm" mission, which limits participitation).
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No. The MA arcs already have an XP penalty because they don't provide an end-of-mission or end-of-arc XP reward. Nerf the XP any worse than it already is, and it just wouldn't be worth it for me.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Legion
How about a tiered XP penalty?
Standard MA missions would see a -20% XP penalty, while a 'Hall of Fame' gets only a -10% penalty, and a Dev's Choice gets no penalty at all (i.e. a regular mish). |
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Sure is a lot of name calling because you do not agree with the way people play the game. I mean it is just a game. In fact if I want a good story and plot line I read a book. I agree there are some lazy people but they generally do not farm they sit at the door and milk. Go ahead with your superiority I play the game the best way by reading all the stories. Good for you I am glad you like the stories and the plots. |
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
This is what the AE IS MEANT TO BE: NEW STUFF! Not farms! But shortsighted, intellectually lazy folks have decided to just make maps where they kill stuff for absolutely no reason other than the rewards.
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Then again you also call them shortsighted for going after rewards; when in fact you are showing you overall shortsightedness of people. You realize some people are goal oriented driven by getting results; a bottom line. Rewards are a result oriented goal a bottom line that you fail to recognize.
So before you go off on you half cocked intellectually bankrupt, name calling rant that is flawed; just maybe stick to what needs to be talked about.
You could have simply stated you do not like farming and you hate how all the farm maps clog up the system hiding good story and this is my suggestion. Nope you had to try an insult them instead.
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Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
As has been pointed out, the AE was sold promising experience. Those hoping to reverse this position forget that MMO's are based around rewarding players participating in the game with character progression, and around here the primary means of such before 50 is XP.
Such a position also seems ideologically profoundly misguided: X feature is being misused: remove rewards wholesale for those abusing and those not abusing! It's a terrible precident, and one of the reasons I have a difficult time accepting the Dev changes that impacted story arcs. Penalizing non-offending customers is just bad business.
What I could get behind would be a better means of penalizing abuses. If a farmer presently gets their arc banned, they can make more. What would happen if those offenders lost access to the AE system for a month or two, and had their arcs unlisted?
As to 'unclogging the AE:' within the current system, those running AE missions would still find dross of arcs poorly written, and the chance for an author's arc to become a hit amidst the sea of other stories is pretty distant. The 'clogging' is as much a function of a system with limited search/display functionality that has been given thousands of arcs as it is the 'misuse' of the product. When you say 'clog' you refer to junk getting in the way of finding what you want. One man's trash is another's treasure. You may find your arcs wonderful, another may find them to be rubbish. Right now, the game engine puts you opinions head-to-head via the star system. A better system might better allow users to differentiate between what they do or do not want, and put less weight upon the popularity aspect of ratings.
I still find all the nerdrage funny. Especially coming from people like EmperorSteele. xD
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There will always be bad arcs. This you cannot avoid. There is no way of quantifying "good writing" or "good mission design," and for all I know your SG considers your "Sparkly Vampires and the Catgirls that Love them" arc to be the pinnacle of AE perfection. That's your call, and a perfectly valid use of AE.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
As to 'unclogging the AE:' within the current system, those running AE missions would still find dross of arcs poorly written, and the chance for an author's arc to become a hit amidst the sea of other stories is pretty distant. The 'clogging' is as much a function of a system with limited search/display functionality that has been given thousands of arcs as it is the 'misuse' of the product. When you say 'clog' you refer to junk getting in the way of finding what you want. One man's trash is another's treasure. You may find your arcs wonderful, another may find them to be rubbish. Right now, the game engine puts you opinions head-to-head via the star system. A better system might better allow users to differentiate between what they do or do not want, and put less weight upon the popularity aspect of ratings.
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However, farms and arcs designed for the SOLE PURPOSE of gaining rewards are specifically not the intent of the system. They also make up the majority of the trash clogging the system. It's bad enough I have to scroll through all the Ninja Robot Catgirls, spelling errors, and 1-54 Extreme everything, without going through all the farms as well.
As for removing XP, the latest patch on test allows us to make customs that effectively give more XP (as they no longer need stupid overpowered powers like Build Up to give full rewards, and the rewards scale by level), so I really doubt they're going to scrap all that work just to remove XP entirely.
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But the tears of nerdrage are SOO delicious!|
Originally Posted by milehigh77
Why are people being so over dramatic & immature about the latest AE fix?
... They already stated in a thread this fix with respect to allys is a temporary solution until a permanent one is implemented. ... You think in the world of game development is as easy as waving a magic wand? Seriously people, let's practice some restraint...and maybe grow up a lil eh... |
Please don't rob me of my snacks!
If the posting population becomes too mature and reasonable, where will I get my tasty nerdrage-filled snacks?
I would hate to have to start reading another games forums just to get my treats...
This is why I am glad of the fact that the posters on this forum represent a tiny fraction of the games playerbase and that I have encountered plenty of reasonable, mature players to actually play the game with rather than idiots who wail and moan because they might not get to 50 as fast.
Yes, that's right, I said it. I think that if this change, or any other that reduces some rewards really upsets you enough to start with this whole 'nuke it from orbit' routine, you really need to re-examine your priorities and grow up a bit.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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They aren't the only ones nerdraging btw. ;-)
| Yes, that's right, I said it. I think that if this change, or any other that reduces some rewards really upsets you enough to start with this whole 'nuke it from orbit' routine, you really need to re-examine your priorities and grow up a bit. |
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I posted over here in regards to this :: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...04#post2767204|
Originally Posted by twelfth
... Exploiters love to talk about how the devs will "never stop us!!!1!!11", maybe it's time for the devs to put that boast to the test.
Just a thought. |
It's pretty clear that the Exploiters have more man-hours to putting into finding exploits than the DEVs have to stop them.
Cutting XP doesn't solve the problem - just the leveling problem.
Based on your comment here ::
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Originally Posted by twelfth
NB: I am not complaining about "farmers", folks who feel like they want to repetitively experience content in order to force rewards. I recognize that farming, for good or ill, is something that the in-game economy and marketplace is essentially reliant upon. I am talking about exploits, which goes beyond farming, IMO.
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Well, "ticket farming" is exploiting the system, so if you really want to stop the exploits then it should be done across the board.
To stop "ticket farming" from influencing the rest of the game, ticket sales of all non-AE related items needs to be stopped. This means that tickets could only be used to purchase unlockables and badges.
I'm all for that.
Now back to the "farming" issue.
I am against "farming". You can't separate good farming from bad farming; there is just farming. Farming just for salvage, enhancements, or recipes isn't any better than farming for xp and most of the time level 50 farming involves xp farming for lower level characters.
Farming is an exploit issue that has plagued this game probably from he very beginning (it was around in issue 1!)
I would like to see a system implemented that curbs all rewards for missions repeated during a 24 hour period. Much like the merit system for taskforces, this would "convince" players to run varied missions rather than allowing exploiters to find "certain" missions and run them ad naseum.
Diminishing returns seemed to be the Taskforce merit solution.
I'd be all for seeing the first run being at 100% rewards (all rewards), second 50% rewards, more times gain 25% rewards. This would be for XP and all "drops".
I'd make this regardless of who the mission holder was. If a player (account, not character) runs the same mission more than once then this system would kick in.
I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to "get stuck in a time loop" and run the same mission over and over again if that is REALLY what they enjoy doing in the game - but I am against the excessive rewards that the exploiters that do this gain.
And yes. Farmers are exploiting the game. Missions are not "intended" to be run repeatedly for some increased gain. If you are doing something that "is not intended" and/or to yield "excessive gains" then you are exploiting the game. Since the sole reason that farmers are farming is for the gains and and missions are not "intended" to be run multiple times in succession - it seems pretty obvious that farmers are exploiters - pretty much the first and foremost exploiters of the game.
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And this is where we disagree.......A lot of what you just stated is YOUR OPINION and not FACT.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I posted over here in regards to this :: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...04#post2767204
It's pretty clear that the Exploiters have more man-hours to putting into finding exploits than the DEVs have to stop them. Cutting XP doesn't solve the problem - just the leveling problem. Based on your comment here :: I can see why you are defending "ticket farming" and the exploits related to that. Well, "ticket farming" is exploiting the system, so if you really want to stop the exploits then it should be done across the board. To stop "ticket farming" from influencing the rest of the game, ticket sales of all non-AE related items needs to be stopped. This means that tickets could only be used to purchase unlockables and badges. I'm all for that. Now back to the "farming" issue. I am against "farming". You can't separate good farming from bad farming; there is just farming. Farming just for salvage, enhancements, or recipes isn't any better than farming for xp and most of the time level 50 farming involves xp farming for lower level characters. Farming is an exploit issue that has plagued this game probably from he very beginning (it was around in issue 1!) I would like to see a system implemented that curbs all rewards for missions repeated during a 24 hour period. Much like the merit system for taskforces, this would "convince" players to run varied missions rather than allowing exploiters to find "certain" missions and run them ad naseum. Diminishing returns seemed to be the Taskforce merit solution. I'd be all for seeing the first run being at 100% rewards (all rewards), second 50% rewards, more times gain 25% rewards. This would be for XP and all "drops". I'd make this regardless of who the mission holder was. If a player (account, not character) runs the same mission more than once then this system would kick in. I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to "get stuck in a time loop" and run the same mission over and over again if that is REALLY what they enjoy doing in the game - but I am against the excessive rewards that the exploiters that do this gain. And yes. Farmers are exploiting the game. Missions are not "intended" to be run repeatedly for some increased gain. If you are doing something that "is not intended" and/or to yield "excessive gains" then you are exploiting the game. Since the sole reason that farmers are farming is for the gains and and missions are not "intended" to be run multiple times in succession - it seems pretty obvious that farmers are exploiters - pretty much the first and foremost exploiters of the game. |
EDIT: Also, I highly doubt the devs will listen to YOUR suggestion. If they still want business that is.
EDIT#2: Also...I just got my 10th Purple this month. Just after I replied on my first edit. 8)
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You kill your game that way period end of story there is a point of no return on things like that it is a hard balance for the devs, I also ask because I made a toon good enough to solo x8 missions not just AE missions but regular missions that any one that can do this is basically a farmer. |
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I posted over here in regards to this :: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...04#post2767204
It's pretty clear that the Exploiters have more man-hours to putting into finding exploits than the DEVs have to stop them. Cutting XP doesn't solve the problem - just the leveling problem. Based on your comment here :: I can see why you are defending "ticket farming" and the exploits related to that. Well, "ticket farming" is exploiting the system, so if you really want to stop the exploits then it should be done across the board. To stop "ticket farming" from influencing the rest of the game, ticket sales of all non-AE related items needs to be stopped. This means that tickets could only be used to purchase unlockables and badges. I'm all for that. Now back to the "farming" issue. I am against "farming". You can't separate good farming from bad farming; there is just farming. Farming just for salvage, enhancements, or recipes isn't any better than farming for xp and most of the time level 50 farming involves xp farming for lower level characters. Farming is an exploit issue that has plagued this game probably from he very beginning (it was around in issue 1!) I would like to see a system implemented that curbs all rewards for missions repeated during a 24 hour period. Much like the merit system for taskforces, this would "convince" players to run varied missions rather than allowing exploiters to find "certain" missions and run them ad naseum. Diminishing returns seemed to be the Taskforce merit solution. I'd be all for seeing the first run being at 100% rewards (all rewards), second 50% rewards, more times gain 25% rewards. This would be for XP and all "drops". I'd make this regardless of who the mission holder was. If a player (account, not character) runs the same mission more than once then this system would kick in. I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to "get stuck in a time loop" and run the same mission over and over again if that is REALLY what they enjoy doing in the game - but I am against the excessive rewards that the exploiters that do this gain. And yes. Farmers are exploiting the game. Missions are not "intended" to be run repeatedly for some increased gain. If you are doing something that "is not intended" and/or to yield "excessive gains" then you are exploiting the game. Since the sole reason that farmers are farming is for the gains and and missions are not "intended" to be run multiple times in succession - it seems pretty obvious that farmers are exploiters - pretty much the first and foremost exploiters of the game. |
Yea go ahead and nuke the rest of the game and see what happens; like i said the devs have this fine line between people who can farm and do farm. They have to keep it within a reasonable range but at the same time if they try to whack it all the way down it just destroys the game and there is nothing left.
I say go ahead and just nuke it all please just do it; because I love to see the fallout over that. Then again I think the dev team is smarter than that and I am not worried about them doing something that drastic.
If you want to help nerf leveling kill the SK and all that stuff that be just as effective and see what happens yea I bet you like to keep that though
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Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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/signed. Take out ALL rewards.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
This.
Kill the xp and be done with it. I'm constantly hearing that the AE was meant for rpers and anyone who cares about story, should care if their story (or any) gives xp equivalent to a regular mission. Let's put our money where our mouths are. Take out the xp. You know what, how about we take out inf AND tickets also. I mean the MA is only supposed to be about STORY. /signed. Take out ALL rewards from the MA. |
Let's see who uses it then.
For Great Justice!
Frankly, we need to remove rewards from the regular game too to curb all the farming in Peregrine and Grandville. It's sickening that people want to level their characters and get shiny things like purples.
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I can't believe that people would use the tools available to them to get the greatest return for their time and effort. Disgusting.
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The game has been down this path before(see old pvp system)...as for the xp...drop the xp and let recipes drop(all including rare) and tickets this would give a real incentive to run in AE vs just running regular content!
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
People seem to fall into two categories - "I hate the AE for reason X" and "I like the AE for reason Y". The first pretty much stay away from it and the second seem to be perfectly happy playing the AE as it is.
Seems to me like this is a perfectly acceptable way for things to go, why kill the XP? |
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Inconceivable!!!
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Originally Posted by zmoosh
i can't believe that people would use the tools available to them to get the greatest return for their time and effort. Disgusting.
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If you see a mission that's a blatant exploit as per the rules set by the Devs, REPORT IT.
If you don't like AE Farms, Don't run them.
If you like AE story based missions that follow the rules as per the Devs, GREAT! (I'm with you)
If you like to complain that others are leveling faster than you using methods that you don't like, but still within current the rules set by the Devs... MEH!
currently reading: A Mighty Fortress (David Weber)
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Fixed for what it should say.
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Originally Posted by Ocularis
If you see a mission that's a blatant exploit as per the rules set by the Devs, Remember it's none of your business.
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Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Without XP then AE will be pretty much worthless to any character under level 50.
From a story perspective it would make more sense to kill the Inf in AE missions (after all you do not really defeat criminals, but you still train and thus can get valuable experience) but yes, less Inf and XP rewards for AE (50% would totally already do the trick I think) instead of countless annoying nerfs for this and that sound like a good thing to me.
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So very much. They are annoyingly overabundant.|
Originally Posted by Attache
1. Cannonball the bulk of the AE buildings, especially where they completely inconsistent with the other buildings or architecture.
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(Same goes for merit vendors by the way.)
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Originally Posted by Attache
2. Shut down the AE Medi-Ports. This will make sense in a minute.
3. Lose the AE Building contact hologram. Instead, every zone has a designated spot where the AE contacts spawn. List it on the maps. 4. Once you form your AE TF, you and your crew click the little column of light and get transported to a level appropriate zone on the appropriate side. At that point, youre in the simulation and all the spawns, contacts, and other heroes you see in the game world are just part of the AEs incredible simulation experience. You seek out the AE contact and get your mission which directs you to an instanced door either in the same zone or another zone. A given arc might send you running all over Paragon City or the Rogue Isles, unless youre in the RWZ. If there is an AE there, youd have to be limited to that zone. In short, the AE missions become more like regular missions with travel time, hospital runs, hot doors, etc. RPers will be happy with the more immersive environment. Storytellers will be happy because youll lose some of the just a simulation feel you have living in the AE building. People who dont exploit the AE might grumble about the change back to the standard but I dont think many of them would outright hate it. The people who would really hate it would be the folks who want to farm and milk xp and while this doesnt necessarily address that directly, it makes it all a little less convenient. Im all for making things less convenient. |
It's nice that its so convenient, but (especially with full rewards) this convenience greatly penalizes everybody that runs normal contacts, especially at early levels.
And that should imo still be the default way to play the game, not running simulations until you hit 50 because its so much more convenient.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
I agree with that, no reason having an AE in every zone, the RWZ one is the most fun so leave that one. there should however be a university/lab in every zone. Trade AE buildings for more crafting!
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Good, no more AE noobs at 50 asking me what the yellow line is -.-|
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Without XP then AE will be pretty much worthless to any character under level 50.
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Either way, we have a better chance of getting AE nerfed since devs love to nerf everything lol, history proves so
I enjoy watching people judge others on their own internal definitions of morals and fairness.
If you don't like people running AE to level, don't.
There is obviously a clear majority of folks who don't, so just team together and shut up already. "I think you make too much exp running missions, and would like the same exp for standing chatting with friends. Because someone passed me leveling while they were slaving away in missions, and frankly, that just has nothing to do with me, but thoroughly bothers me."
What a bunch of retards.
"PvP Messiah"
I agree that the nerfs tend to be heavy-handed and all-encompassing, but so far they've all been rolled back to acceptible levels once they had time to get programmers involved (aside from the ticket caps and the badge nerfs, anyway). There's no reason to think that this latest nerf won't also pass--especially since Dr. Aeon has already posted that this is only a stop-gap until the actual fix is in place.
I'm willing/interested to see what Doc Aeon has planned for the re-patch, and I did post this before his response back to the community. At this point, I've pretty much said my piece here but I was curious how many people would back such an idea.
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