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Go back pre-AE nerf and there was barely a single team below 50 running without AE and if there was, you couldnt get members for it anyway because they all wanted to farm.|
Originally Posted by Cold_X
I enjoy watching people judge others on their own internal definitions of morals and fairness.
If you don't like people running AE to level, don't. There is obviously a clear majority of folks who don't, so just team together and shut up already. "I think you make too much exp running missions, and would like the same exp for standing chatting with friends. Because someone passed me leveling while they were slaving away in missions, and frankly, that just has nothing to do with me, but thoroughly bothers me." What a bunch of retards. |
What good is having a game with a buttload of content if you gonna give people the option to skip it all by running the same mission over and over again? If the game was released with one mission, it wouldnt have lasted so long so why is it acceptable now?
If your calling people who complain most of the game is now pointless, i think you need to learn the meaning of the word 'retard'.
It is pretty funny though hearing chat on freedumb, its a lost cause now since more than 90% of the community there is just waiting for the next farm. Im so glad I moved servers, if it happens like that on virtue its game over for me.
AE pretty much wiped out the EU servers, its also lost a lot of players in the US, you would have thought people realised by now farming destroys the entire point of an MMORPG game.
Dont get me wrong, im not against farming at high levels, its just the new players coming into this game just see this, it creates a bunch of noobs who know nothing outside the AE building which come out at level 50 into the world, then get into a TF team asking questions like how to get out of Atlas, then get the team killed because they havent got buffbots and get booted, this happens again and again and eventually leave.
Farming is not bad for players who know the game but you cant have it both ways, you either hurt the noobs raising new charecters and make the vets suffer too, or you keep it the same and make the vets suffer and leave because of the influx of idiots at 50 who have no idea what there doing.
Either way, the vets have lived before AE, they can live without it giving exp.
Why keep spending more time and resources in something so obviously flawed and timewasting to developers? A lot of players werent even particularly excited about it when it came in, and since then every update has involved some AE fix. A lot of players also did like it however, and for that reason tickets should stay so level 50s play it and low levels can still earn cash there too with tickets but it does not damage the game later levels.
Look at the game now with the nerf in, did the game die? No. Will it die if exp is removed? No. Were there more players with exp at full? No. Everyone is still there, playing the same game. Just now there actually playing the game, not one farm map and also I havent received one message asking me what the yellow line was or telling me there leaving team because its better exp and cash in AE.
In reality, its the players own greed thats leading to the death of the game, not the lack of marketing or anything else. No new player is going to buy into an MMORPG for long if they can get maximum level in under a week. They might last the first months sub thats it because theres not enough 50 content to keep people occupied as it is.
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TL;DR|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Go back pre-AE nerf and there was barely a single team below 50 running without AE and if there was, you couldnt get members for it anyway because they all wanted to farm.
What good is having a game with a buttload of content if you gonna give people the option to skip it all by running the same mission over and over again? If the game was released with one mission, it wouldnt have lasted so long so why is it acceptable now? If your calling people who complain most of the game is now pointless, i think you need to learn the meaning of the word 'retard'. It is pretty funny though hearing chat on freedumb, its a lost cause now since more than 90% of the community there is just waiting for the next farm. Im so glad I moved servers, if it happens like that on virtue its game over for me. AE pretty much wiped out the EU servers, its also lost a lot of players in the US, you would have thought people realised by now farming destroys the entire point of an MMORPG game. Dont get me wrong, im not against farming at high levels, its just the new players coming into this game just see this, it creates a bunch of noobs who know nothing outside the AE building which come out at level 50 into the world, then get into a TF team asking questions like how to get out of Atlas, then get the team killed because they havent got buffbots and get booted, this happens again and again and eventually leave. Farming is not bad for players who know the game but you cant have it both ways, you either hurt the noobs raising new charecters and make the vets suffer too, or you keep it the same and make the vets suffer and leave because of the influx of idiots at 50 who have no idea what there doing. Either way, the vets have lived before AE, they can live without it giving exp. Why keep spending more time and resources in something so obviously flawed and timewasting to developers? A lot of players werent even particularly excited about it when it came in, and since then every update has involved some AE fix. A lot of players also did like it however, and for that reason tickets should stay so level 50s play it and low levels can still earn cash there too with tickets but it does not damage the game later levels. Look at the game now with the nerf in, did the game die? No. Will it die if exp is removed? No. Were there more players with exp at full? No. Everyone is still there, playing the same game. Just now there actually playing the game, not one farm map and also I havent received one message asking me what the yellow line was or telling me there leaving team because its better exp and cash in AE. In reality, its the players own greed thats leading to the death of the game, not the lack of marketing or anything else. No new player is going to buy into an MMORPG for long if they can get maximum level in under a week. They might last the first months sub thats it because theres not enough 50 content to keep people occupied as it is. |
but since you seemed to type so much, let me just say, people don't spend $15 a month to do what you want them too.
What about the PvP community that was shattered when PvP 2.0 came out? Do they give a **** about content in the PvE world? Nope. I'd be willing to bet that the 10 best PvPers on any given day hardly play PvE at all, and would destroy the so called "PvE Gurus" through any PvE TF no contest.
And instead of taking the time to show these new folks the "correct way" (lulz) to PvE, you decide to ***** up a storm and morally justify it on a forum.
Running the same content from 1-50 is extremely boring for the 25th time. Some people like to farm their next 50s because they want to use them for TFs and PvP.
There is a minority of newbs who use AE, who NCsoft could have done a numerous amount of things to limit them using AE, but they didn't.
Farming isn't very relative in arguing against AE because farming will always take place. For awhile it just looked liked *gasp* the majority of people enjoyed farming. Sure, it was being done at ridiculous rates, but again, take that little finger of yours and point it back at yourself, because you should be worried about "numero uno". Whether the newbs learn at lvl 1, or at 50, they will learn, it's just a number. I've met retarded 50s who have been playing since beta.
I must also assume that all of your PvE skilled pals just happened to have quit, and limited the teams you could get. That your leadership skills are null and communication skills in game are even worse.
AE was nerfed, why are all these self righteous thugs still QQing?
"PvP Messiah"
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The entire game is a "simulation." There's no mechanical difference between running "real" missions and AE missions except the mission entry mechanism. Your powers work exactly the same, the debt mechanism is identical, everything is the same except the reward system, which is mostly the same except for tickets and differences made to prevent exploits.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
And that should imo still be the default way to play the game, not running simulations until you hit 50 because its so much more convenient.
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When you come right down to it, radio/paper missions are functionally identical to AE missions: most of the time you don't have to travel more than a few hundred yards after each radio mission, and often you get sent right back to the same door. There is no overarching story for radio/papers. These days radios are essentially purple recipe farms for players running solo at -1/x8. You can run the same mission ad infinitum by simply zoning in and out until you get the same old easy defeat Archon Manuela mission. You never have to fight Carnies or Arachnos if you don't want to.
When paper missions were first introduced they were exploited in much the same way as AE. Teams would enter the mission and wait at the door while the stalker stealthed to the boss in the end room. Whack the boss. On to the next mission. I never figured out why they did that: I can't believe the mission bonus was really worth all the wasted time. But there was no risk, so I guess efficiency wasn't the issue.
Even today most pickup teams I get invited to just run radios in Brickstown. (And for some reason they always want to run at +3 or +4 even when the team's constitution doesn't warrant it. Note to team leaders: you get more XP/minute when you steamroll mobs at +0 than when you run at +4 and spend more time coming back from the hospital than pounding bad guys.)
Finally, AE was not the first thing to introduce the concept of running the same mission at the same door over and over and over again. Players have been doing that for much longer. There are several Unai Kemen "close 20 rupture missions" that feature various types of mobs. Players would get to the mission that had mobs that favored their build (say, the Family mission) and farm it forever by leaving before completion and then switching to another mission, then switching back and running the farm again. If the team leader didn't tell you it was a farm in his invite, you quickly learned this when you got yelled for clicking a glowie.
Many nerfs were introduced into the game because of farms like this (the timed wolf missions, the Family and Freakshow XP nerfs, and the latest, much-detested non-targetable-rez nerf).
So, while AE has caused some spectacularly bad exploits due to various bugs, it's by no means the only feature in the game to do so. It's a cool feature and I just wish it hadn't had such a rough introduction.
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Thats why theres more than one mission in the game, so people arent forced to play how others want them to, running one farm map isnt exactly a choice is it when theres nothing else happening. People also dont pay $15 a month to run exploits for very long either. Its not me telling you how to play the game, its the actual rules in the EULA.|
Originally Posted by Cold_X
TL;DR
but since you seemed to type so much, let me just say, people don't spend $15 a month to do what you want them too. |
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
What about the PvP community that was shattered when PvP 2.0 came out? Do they give a **** about content in the PvE world? Nope. I'd be willing to bet that the 10 best PvPers on any given day hardly play PvE at all, and would destroy the so called "PvE Gurus" through any PvE TF no contest.
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Your comment about PvPers running PvE tfs better is laughable too, id like to see an entire team of x/psi or x/energy blasters run a TF better than a regular team, i really would.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
And instead of taking the time to show these new folks the "correct way" (lulz) to PvE, you decide to ***** up a storm and morally justify it on a forum.
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Level 1-20 they should figure out half the things the still dont know at 50 because of AE. That is whats destroying the game, that and idiots like you trying to use PvP to justify destroyed PvE.
PvP was never the main point of this game, it wasnt even in the game when it was released and was never a huge portion of the game for a majority of players. However the bitter ones thats left come to the forums to whine and distort the rest of the players opinion with there lazyness.
I PvP myself and I dont mind taking extra time to level my charecters rather than being infested with level 50 idiots who cant figure out what enhancements are.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
Running the same content from 1-50 is extremely boring for the 25th time. Some people like to farm their next 50s because they want to use them for TFs and PvP.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
There is a minority of newbs who use AE, who NCsoft could have done a numerous amount of things to limit them using AE, but they didn't.
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Helping out a new player is one thing, but you shouldnt be doing it with whilst trying to do the most difficult content in the game.
NCSoft can do nothing to the noobs in AE without hurting the vets using it to raise there charecters too, its because they havent figured this out yet why we are still getting half finished patches in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
Farming isn't very relative in arguing against AE because farming will always take place. For awhile it just looked liked *gasp* the majority of people enjoyed farming. Sure, it was being done at ridiculous rates, but again, take that little finger of yours and point it back at yourself, because you should be worried about "numero uno". Whether the newbs learn at lvl 1, or at 50, they will learn, it's just a number. I've met retarded 50s who have been playing since beta.
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Thats the way it should be.
What goes on with AE is way too far, you might as well not have a leveling system it breaks it that much.
Yes you do still get retarded 50s from beta, but nowhere near as many of those as you get AE noobs running around, stop trying to make it sound like there arent that many because there clearly is and denying that is just making more and more vets leave.
In my SG alone 4 people were talking about AE farming earlier this week, saying if it makes a comeback in i17 there subscription is gone. I have to agree, mines included with it.
Also the 'majority' of players you say that enjoy farms simply do not exist either, people do farms to level, not because they enjoy them. You would have to be braindead to find the same mission 1000 times enjoyable. Perhaps you find it enjoyable, but thats not the majority im afraid.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
I must also assume that all of your PvE skilled pals just happened to have quit, and limited the teams you could get. That your leadership skills are null and communication skills in game are even worse.
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Insulting players is also a bit of a worthless tactic isnt it if your trying to prove AE is worth running exp? Your doing nothing but cheapen your own arguement. Besides that if its just me, then why are there so many people stating the same facts on the forums whilst the AE farmers such as yourself claim its easy to get teams outside despite not having tried to do it themselves?
I do run teams, or try to, frequently, however unless enough members of my sg are online to join, you have little chance of recruiting elsewhere because everyone wants easymode 50. If you do get a member, they leave within a mission to go look for a farm team again although since the last nerf this isnt the case anymore, thank god.
At least before AE you had a choice whether to take part in farming, now you have no choice whatsoever because its ridiculously hard to get a team going outside of AE.
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Originally Posted by Cold_X
AE was nerfed, why are all these self righteous thugs still QQing?
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If exp was gone from AE it would save a lot more time working on more important things in the game, like some more content for 50's and a PvP system that isnt laughable.
Ironic, your arguement that you raise your charecters for PvP in this broken system through farming, yet in reality its farming thats part of the reason
PvP isnt being looked at in the first place since the devs are busy elsewhere sorting out the newest exploits.
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I just came back from a 2-year exodus from CoX, but I used to be in a PvP-oriented SG/VG, and we used to run TFs EXTREMELY well with our PvP setup. Clearing stuff like LRSF first week, Cathedral of Pain with only one group, things like that. It didn't hurt that a well-tuned PvP team could debuff the bejeezus out of two to three foes, while being able to defense cap the entire team. Things might have changed since I've been gone, but it couldn't have been that much......I hope?
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Originally Posted by Predatoric
Your comment about PvPers running PvE tfs better is laughable too, id like to see an entire team of x/psi or x/energy blasters run a TF better than a regular team, i really would.
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Save the drama for yo' mama.
It'll never happen because marketing won't let them. The architect boxes bill AE as an alternative leveling path from 1-50, so in order to avoid claims of false advertising AE would have to give at least a little bit of XP. I wish they'd just leave it alone and let the people who want to farm do it.
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Er... no.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
The entire game is a "simulation." There's no mechanical difference between running "real" missions and AE missions except the mission entry mechanism. Your powers work exactly the same, the debt mechanism is identical, everything is the same except the reward system, which is mostly the same except for tickets and differences made to prevent exploits. When you come right down to it, radio/paper missions are functionally identical to AE missions.
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From the game mechanics, yes, but I was talking about the story behind it.
The story of normal contact missions and police radio missions is that there are crooks and villains out there and you fight them to foil their plans and save the poor citizens. (On hero side)
The story of AE missions is that you play a simulation in a virtual reality system created by Doctor Aeon and his corp. It makes little story sense that you get Influence, which represents for heroes the credit and fame they get for having saved citizens and arrested criminals, by playing a virtual reality game all day while the criminals are still out there.
(Perhaps a very brilliant plan by Doctor Aeon, to keep the heroes occupied?
)I know, the majority cares little about the story, canon lore, let alone RP.
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QQ all you want, AE isn't killing the game. It's the lack of development that's killing the game. The past 2-3 issues were lackluster. WTF was i15? There are numerous starting point. When AE was first announced, players already warned them about how game breaking most of the things were. Everyone and their mom were going to create farms. It's naive to not think so. And if it's such a big feature for them, they should've relased it when little to no bugs, rather than releasing it bugged with major game breaking mechanics. | If exp was gone from AE it would save a lot more time working on more important things in the game, like some more content for 50's and a PvP system that isnt laughable. |
AE is retarded. If you take away rewards, it'll be another Arena. Guaranteed. But...they can't because....
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| It'll never happen because marketing won't let them. The architect boxes bill AE as an alternative leveling path from 1-50, so in order to avoid claims of false advertising AE would have to give at least a little bit of XP. I wish they'd just leave it alone and let the people who want to farm do it. |
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I'm just happy you made this statement so I could stop reading the rest of your post, brush my shoulders off and file it into the "Extremely ignorant and wanting" Category.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Im a pvper myself, but you still talk outa your rear end. Yes a majority of the PvP community are the ones whining for exploitive farms back so they can level there next PvP toon but that doesnt make it right, it also doesnt count for more than 1% of the population. Your comment about PvPers running PvE tfs better is laughable too, id like to see an entire team of x/psi or x/energy blasters run a TF better than a regular team, i really would. |
It is the "skillset" of the players in PvP that make them more valuable in a PvE environment, not a specific AT and build. Even implying that PvPers would bring those ATs and powersets to a TF suggests you know much less then you imply about PvP.
I'm sure you PvP lol
PvPmeh?
What is it again that "doesn't make it right"? O' Morally correct compass wielding someone?
edit: O god I lied and went back after posting this, hahahahah LMAO @ this:
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Originally Posted by Predatotoeioasdasd
PvP isnt being looked at in the first place since the devs are busy elsewhere sorting out the newest exploits.
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"PvP Messiah"
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You really want to make the game fascists get a taste of their own medicine don't you ? What is hilarious is they seem to be lining up to drink the Kool Aid
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
This.
Kill the xp and be done with it. I'm constantly hearing that the AE was meant for rpers and anyone who cares about story, should care if their story (or any) gives xp equivalent to a regular mission. Let's put our money where our mouths are. Take out the xp. You know what, how about we take out inf AND tickets also. I mean the MA is only supposed to be about STORY. /signed. Take out ALL rewards from the MA. |
I really can't find an official thread to discuss MA and the seeming nerf to XP & other rewards in AE arcs so I will address my thoughts here. MA was and is a novel concept. When the system hit Beta I was there and created an Arc. I found that creating arcs was a bit more like work than I liked so work proceeds on new arcs slowly. When MA hit live I ran a few arcs and used to regularly participate in MA Monday on Champion server. Frankly some arcs were very good others less so. However since I usually taskforce or do Ouro story arcs when I want to solo blueside MA was a novelty or a way to team with friends on toons that could not solo well. For me the most positive impact of MA was the revitalization of the markets with Uncommon, Pool A & B recipes, as well as rare salvage. The tickets system which restored the hero side WW market and breathed a little life into the under-supplied Black Market really brought a lot more parity to the market mini-game. Then came the anti- farmer measures. Ticket caps and reductions to awards were brought in as well as the removal of critters to prevent exploits. The sum result of these many changes to hurt the farmer crowd frankly has reduced my interest in one of the more novel and innovative features of the game. The supply of recipes hitting the market is drying up again to Pre-MA levels and Villain players are again left with tortuous, repetitive, and undervalued merit content in order to tr to IO out their toons. I want to list my feelings and solutions to a few of these problems.
MA and the Dark Side.
MA offered Villain players a new way to level their characters as well as seek "loot". One of the complaints about Villain content has been that it was seemingly too heroic or felt more like a painful grind. MA arcs and the RWZ MA building gave Villains a way to team and seek their own "loot" outside a seemingly paralyzed and dysfunctional Black Market. This change allowed players to explore the Villainous AT and red side play became a lot more common and open. Without access to the Dev teams data mining I can not of course prove this, but it seems that as the MA nerfs have progressed villain activity has decreased. The seeming lack of teams has of course caused players to simply give up on their villain toons and are holding off the painful attempts to level red side AT till after GR so that they might have access to a non-paralyzed market and fluid teaming opportunities. Whether this belief will be vindicated is unknown. what is known is that Villain side teams and leveling is becoming more and more difficult and grinding which in m opinion cannot be good for the customer base. In conclusion between the loss of functionality of MA and the obsolete nature of red-side content along with the introduction of new GR content. the Villain zones will continue to be an underutilized and underdeveloped portion of the game which will reduce the amount of enjoyable content that players have available.
MA and blue side
To be perfectly honest Blue-side has a relative ton of content available to begin with. Some of that`content is dated and a bit contrived but it is there. MA did offer a way for everyone to seek rewards regardless of mentor / SK parity. Really except as discussed under their own sections MA did little to affect blue side play other than move the farmers from PI to Atlas Park.
MA and the teaming barrier
The teaming barrier is anything that discourages players from teaming such as an imbalance of rewards between members. This game has for the most part had a strong opposition to the teaming barrier with features like sidekicking / mentoring and super-sidekicking as well as auto exemping for certain content. In normal mission team play radio / paper missions have virtually no teaming barrier. Every member of the team has an equal chance at salvage, recipe drops, etc and no preparation is required. Before the introduction of the inventions system this was the default baseline of the game. There was only the most insignificant barriers to teaming. Once merits were added the game random mission generators such as paper missions lost a lot of popularity as a new teaming barrier had occurred, reduced rewards.
Story arcs became the way to earn maximum rewards without joining a task-force, strike force, however an imbalance occurred that erected a new teaming barrier. Now only the mission holder earned maximum rewards for story arc mission teams unless the players could sync their characters progression furthermore a large chunk of the reward was held of until all of the arc had been completed. Now suddenly it was harder to find teams for longer story arcs or to utilize Ouro missions which suffered the same teaming barriers as task-forces without the rewards. So now you could remove one but not both teaming barriers.
MA allowed everyone on the team to achieve equal rewards which removed the teaming barrier completely tickets were earned b everyone on the team at a roughly equal rate, experience was proportionate and awards were not back-loaded nor was casual play discouraged. All of the nerfs to prevent farming and`exploitation has now erected new false teaming barriers. Essentially many though not all of the changes meant to curb farming and exploitation are killing MA as a viable and fun alternative to Dev published content. If I take a mid 20's toon into an MA arc and it takes me 3 missions to earn a bubble of experience with a full bar of patrol experience something is wrong. Not to mention the fact that for the whole arc I earned a grand total of about 1500 tickets. If people want to team for rewards like loot, xp, or content, enable them. Do not build up new barriers to prevent teaming. Do not undo the core attractions of the game.
MA and the market.
MA is an integral part of the market. To pretend otherwise is sheer fallacy. MA supplies the market and acts as a price control for rare salvage as well as mid-level to high-level uncommon, Pool A, and Pool B recipes for IO sets. As was evidenced by the market behavior between the time merits were introduced and the MA ticket rewards system was added. The supplies of the above mentioned recipes dried up completely. With the latest changes to XP we seem to be approaching that again as the supply of above mentioned recipes hitting the market has dwindled to the barest trickle. While there may be other factors involved the latest XP changes seemed to have finally killed the patient. I understand the need to stop exploitative behavior but do not stop those players who wish to earn greater rewards by taking on extra challenges.
How I would fix MA
MA should give at least story arc level awards but certainly lower than task force. XP should be raised to the previous levels and you should not have to run a farm to hit the ticket cap per mission. furthermore the penalties for running missions that contain fewer than 3 types of of critters should have the penalties halved. Penalties for adding helpful pets should remain. Open up the freedom to team to all. Farmers will always exist tolerate them so those of us that play can enjoy ourselves.
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you mean jumping around like a moron and having 2-3 travel powers makes a good pve player?|
Originally Posted by Cold_X
I'm just happy you made this statement so I could stop reading the rest of your post, brush my shoulders off and file it into the "Extremely ignorant and wanting" Category.
It is the "skillset" of the players in PvP that make them more valuable in a PvE environment, not a specific AT and build. Even implying that PvPers would bring those ATs and powersets to a TF suggests you know much less then you imply about PvP. I'm sure you PvP lol PvPmeh? What is it again that "doesn't make it right"? O' Morally correct compass wielding someone? edit: O god I lied and went back after posting this, hahahahah LMAO @ this: GTFO hahaha |
or the 'i r 1337' broadcasts?
PvP'ers arent very good at the pve game. Theyre good at being bored and following AT trends and hanging out in pvp enviroments.
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I was sorry to hear that characters getting xp in the MA system was keeping you up at night. Maybe you could think of some more ways that something that isn't effecting you but is maybe enjoyed by other people could be nerfed too. Ofcourse you could always try counting sheep instead.|
Originally Posted by twelfth
I'm actually serious. After the Ally Nerf, why not do this? If the devs are concerned about exploits for PLing, why not just cut out all the time and effort they are doing in order to plug holes in the system?
Kill XP in the Mission Architect. It was a nice try, we appreciated the idea of being able to go from 1 to 50 in AE - but maybe it is more trouble than it is worth. I'm not saying that we necessarily have to kill rewards in the AE system. Tickets have become a very important part of the marketplace and economy, and inf/prestiege rewards still make the system somewhat attractive for those who want rewards for their efforts. But fixing the XP exploits is pulling manpower away from other features and patches which could sorely use some love. Exploiters love to talk about how the devs will "never stop us!!!1!!11", maybe it's time for the devs to put that boast to the test. Just a thought. NB: I am not complaining about "farmers", folks who feel like they want to repetitively experience content in order to force rewards. I recognize that farming, for good or ill, is something that the in-game economy and marketplace is essentially reliant upon. I am talking about exploits, which goes beyond farming, IMO. |
In short... don't let it bother you, and stfu.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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Not sure about pvp'ers now, but pre i13 they were also some of the best pve'ers easily matching the feats of dedicated pve groups.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak
you mean jumping around like a moron and having 2-3 travel powers makes a good pve player?
or the 'i r 1337' broadcasts? PvP'ers arent very good at the pve game. Theyre good at being bored and following AT trends and hanging out in pvp enviroments. |
less so now, but if you used to be good at pvp you were by default pretty good at the game. Considering how easy the pve game is it resulted in some top caliber pve'ers when they had to do it.
I'll make the safe bet and just figure you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
I'd say you're both right (or wrong, all a matter of perspective)
A small part of the PvP playerbase were hardcores, leveled tons of characters (so could run semi-optimized teams), and PvP itself involves coordination, which also helps in PvE. That said, I've frequently seen people considered skilled PvPers who would not even dare to run a RSF outside of their mind dom and/or stone brute and/or buffdebuff stack, much like they would throw a fit at people using the environment in zone PvP and argue for controlled fights in arena.
In older MMO games, PVP centered ones, people like that used to be called scrubs or carebears (probably still would be). As this MMO is much more casual and easy, here they can be the "elite" PVPers, but complaining as soon as you're pushed outside of your comfort zone is still the exact opposite of skillful play, no matter what's the current perception.
In that small part of the PvP playerbase, you then have a few individuals who, unlike the above, are really great at the game, are the ones who develop strategies/builds, are capable if not willing of running unorthodox teams and fighting against stacked odds and having success doing all that ; there's no doubt these guys would be amongst the best players, PvP or PvE. These guys are few and far between though, and most others are just mindless followers who copypaste builds and tactics without thinking twice.
Then you've got the rest, the biggest part of the PvP crowd, which is kids shouting "lol I pwn j00" in broadcast and generally being stupid in every aspect. "Elite" PvPers like to claim these guys aren't "real" PvPers, but unfortunately they're very much part of the PvP playerbase, much like any firekinfarmerbob1337 who's spamming PI BC in all caps is part of the PvE playerbase.
So, as crazy as it might sound, I've almost described just any MMO human group : a large horde of nitwits, a smaller amount of dudes who aren't all that great but make up for it by playing a lot, and a tiny amount of folks who are really good. The only people missing in this description (and admittedly, a significant part of any community) being the silent ones, who enjoy the game but don't play all that much nor care enough to get passionate about it, so never get noticed by "hardcore" folks.
--
Ontopic : I'm still getting better XP in AE than anywhere else, if you guys suck too much to get great XP in AE without exploits, that's fine, but let's not ruin it for everyone else, thank you very much.
After having spent hundreds, likely even thousands, of hours pvp'ing in this game I can definitively say that the "i pwned joo" attitude that people cite around here is a fable.
Sure you'll occasionally run across an ******, but by and large I would honestly say that the pvp crowd is nicer than the pve crowd.
As for adaptability and skill across the game, well the pvp crowd was so niche that the majority of "regulars" were all skilled players. All the fastest and smoothest RSF's I've done have been when I jump into one of the pvp vg runs. Granted a large part of that is because most of that SF is killing AV's and pvp builds are generally superior single target killers. But anything short of an AV tends to be a pushover for high end teams so...
And yes they tend to be highly optimized teams (seriously lol at "semi-optimized"), not because they lack the skill to run a bunch of dual blade/ea's but because pvp by nature is min/max, so that carries over to pve.
A pvp'er would rather be pvp'ing than pve'ing, but pve is forced in this game so when they engage in it it tends to be conducted in as efficient a way as possible.
I'd gladly put a top tier pvp group up against a top tier pve group to see who was better at running pve content. The degree the pve group would win by would be tiny compared to how badly they'd get stomped in they went and faced them in pvp. If you score a 9.5 in pve and a 10 in pvp vs a 10 in pve and a 1 in pvp which group is better? I know my answer, but I don't expect a unanimous vote.
At the same time you have total bums in both environments so who really cares.
Anyway, the only reason I'm even talking about this is because the original topic of this thread is retarded 
*When I talk about pvp'ers it is all pre i13. I haven't pvp'd since then so I can't vouch for the community, or the skill level. It could be just as good as before, I don't know.
Quote:
I'm saying this as someone who has very rarely PvP'd. What I know about PvP and PvPers comes from knowing PvPers through global channels.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak
PvP'ers arent very good at the pve game. Theyre good at being bored and following AT trends and hanging out in pvp enviroments.
|
The quoted statement is a (pretty ignorant) stereotype. Are there PvPers like that? Yeah. There are also ones who mop up PvE because PvE isn't hard.
In my experience, some of the better, hard core PvPErs learn how to eke out every last PvE advantage in terms of leveling speed, earning inf, earning merits and getting drops. They do this because they want those things for PvP builds and they often don't care so much about the PvE they have to blast through to earn the things they need for builds. The PvPers I know who do those things are some of the best PvEers I know.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
On topic, I think the OP suggestion is incredibly dumb. I cannot understand anyone who agrees with it.
A tiny, tiny fraction of people in CoH are going to use the AE purely for experiencing people's stories. We should not ask the devs to design for that. As matters stand currently, the AE is already a comparatively little-used feature (outside of exploits). One of the main reasons for that is that even mythical "casual" players, while they may not be slavishly pursuing the best XP/time, do often care when their rate of new "bubbles" on the XP circle slows down noticeably. Playing arcs in the AE is a massive XP rate crapshoot - if you want to both have a good time playing with other people and get decent XP, your safe bet is just to play regular missions. Regular missions are an XP crapshoot too, but the dynamic range is a lot smaller. Even casual players can notice the increased slew in their progress if they get inside an AE arc where the enemies are really challenging but worth a fraction of regular critter XP.
I am confident that this is why I17 has improved mapping of power selections to rewards for custom AE critters. The devs want people to use the AE, and they likely recognize that a lot of people will avoid it if its dramatically less rewarding than the rest of PvE.
Think about what you're asking for. If you remove rewards and the result is that only a tiny fraction of players use the tool, what return-on-investment would the devs have to continue to improve it?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I used to run AE arcs pretty regularly. When the first XP nerf came in, I ran them a bit less. Since this last one, the last few times I tried to play a random arc that sounded interesting, the XP was next to nothing. Now, I don't even venture in the building.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Playing arcs in the AE is a massive XP rate crapshoot.
|
The goal should be 'fair' rewards. In general, people play their characters to 'level up', or at least earn drops. There should simply be fair, non-exploitable rewards for the AE.
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Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
I used to run AE arcs pretty regularly. When the first XP nerf came in, I ran them a bit less. Since this last one, the last few times I tried to play a random arc that sounded interesting, the XP was next to nothing. Now, I don't even venture in the building.
The goal should be 'fair' rewards. In general, people play their characters to 'level up', or at least earn drops. There should simply be fair, non-exploitable rewards for the AE. |
LOL, people in this game think anyone who plays well is an exploiter. Over in the beta feedback forum there was someone who thought speed running posi was an exploit. We have merit rewards determined by average times, and some wonks will actually try and say that corresponds to difficulty. As long as you have those kinds of attitudes anything can be an exploit, and the moral compass isnt spinning, it was cryogenically frozen then hit with a sledgehammer.
What there should be is consistency in the way these are done, and hopefully something a bit more based on the inherent difficulty. I'm not holding my breath for any of that though.
Quote:
This sums it up pretty well. A couple of weeks ago, my daughter and I spent an afternoon running AE arcs together. We had a blast, we *never* farm (stories are more fun), we have a couple of our own arcs (and many more in the pre-write stage waiting for i17), and leveled at a decent pace (slower than canon, but not incredibly so).|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
On topic, I think the OP suggestion is incredibly dumb. I cannot understand anyone who agrees with it.
A tiny, tiny fraction of people in CoH are going to use the AE purely for experiencing people's stories. We should not ask the devs to design for that. As matters stand currently, the AE is already a comparatively little-used feature (outside of exploits). One of the main reasons for that is that even mythical "casual" players, while they may not be slavishly pursuing the best XP/time, do often care when their rate of new "bubbles" on the XP circle slows down noticeably. Playing arcs in the AE is a massive XP rate crapshoot - if you want to both have a good time playing with other people and get decent XP, your safe bet is just to play regular missions. Regular missions are an XP crapshoot too, but the dynamic range is a lot smaller. Even casual players can notice the increased slew in their progress if they get inside an AE arc where the enemies are really challenging but worth a fraction of regular critter XP. I am confident that this is why I17 has improved mapping of power selections to rewards for custom AE critters. The devs want people to use the AE, and they likely recognize that a lot of people will avoid it if its dramatically less rewarding than the rest of PvE. Think about what you're asking for. If you remove rewards and the result is that only a tiny fraction of players use the tool, what return-on-investment would the devs have to continue to improve it? |
For my wife, daughter, and I, the AE has been a huge success from the outset. None of the changes made over time have changed our "AE playstyle". With all the angst and rage on the forums, AE has remained a fun and worthwhile pasttime for us.
We have some characters that only level in AE (slow leveling), some that only do canon content, and some that do both. It removes some of the repetitive feel and gives multiple leveling paths. It keeps the game fresh for us.
From our viewpoint, the AE is one of the best, most enjoyable innovations in CoH. Opinions will obviously vary.
As I've said before, the OP's opinion is mostly based off of the temporary pre-i17 XP ally nerf we got. Nerdrage has passed. Thanks for everyone posting though. Never had a thread reach nearly 100 replies.
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Well I will say at the minute the game is fine now only the 'hardcore' farmers are in the MA building, MA was an addon but it was becoming the entire game.
Whats the point of having 17 issues worth of content and pve stuff if people are only going to play one badly managed issue?
If i17 brings back farming to the extent it was before, theres my sub gone. Found a link that pretty much sums up my thoughts about AE....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEpF334Rtc
Quote:
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If i17 brings back farming to the extent it was before, theres my sub gone. |
stupid stupid stupid !
Did anyone tell you that you are not forced to join or participate in farming.
Oh and while we are on the topic of farming and subs...
How many player have more than 1 account for farming??
HEY DEVS!!! WAKEUP,
If you manage to stop farmers it means that lots of players will only need 1 account.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
If you don't like people running AE to level, don't.
There is obviously a clear majority of folks who don't, so just team together and shut up already. "I think you make too much exp running missions, and would like the same exp for standing chatting with friends. Because someone passed me leveling while they were slaving away in missions, and frankly, that just has nothing to do with me, but thoroughly bothers me."
What a bunch of retards.