Hey... lets go get small.
By
Aluminum_Dave,
Posted on: 2010-03-30 24:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think this might be similar to stretching and shapeshifting on the hard/impossible to do list.
If you want somehting like that, you might just have to use the super tailor featue, and make one of your costume slots as little as possible.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Well, they would have to make new small versions of all character assets (character models, costumes pieces, weapons, etc.), "small" versions of all powers, etc. etc.
In other words, a whole boatload of work for not that much payoff, really.
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ah yeah that makes sense. Oh well it would've been pretty fun.
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Originally Posted by sleestack
Well, they would have to make new small versions of all character assets (character models, costumes pieces, weapons, etc.), "small" versions of all powers, etc. etc.
In other words, a whole boatload of work for not that much payoff, really. |
This happened a long time ago so I think it ok to say it. 3.5 years ago I saw a small flame running around PO and someone else asked me if I could see it and I said yes. When I moused over it I saw a name so it was a player.
I was new to the game so I didn't know what was going on I can't say if it was a hack or rednames testing. (No I did not take a pic whish I had thought of it).
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Remaking everything small seems like the worst possible way to do it. It would be much easier(and no, I'm not saying it would be "easy" just much more efficient) to develop a way to scale all physical attributes of a player down. Actually they probably could do this right now by increasing the range of the various sliders, especially allowing more range on the "Height" slider.|
Originally Posted by sleestack
Well, they would have to make new small versions of all character assets (character models, costumes pieces, weapons, etc.), "small" versions of all powers, etc. etc.
In other words, a whole boatload of work for not that much payoff, really. |
But doing that still wouldn't effect movement speeds, you'd just end up with a tiny guy running as quick as a normal-sized guy, and probably using power FX with the same normal size. Which on a tiny guy would look enormous.
So they'd need to develop a way of scaling down power FX and movement attributes relative to player size. And making that scaling system could take a lot of work itself.
Of course I'm not even going into the problems with targeting tiny people or recalculating power ranges, especially melee range.
So yeah, it'd be cool, but unlikely.
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Err... that's what transformation matrices are for. Nobody sane would create an entirely new model just to scale down a character.
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Originally Posted by sleestack
Well, they would have to make new small versions of all character assets (character models, costumes pieces, weapons, etc.), "small" versions of all powers, etc. etc.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Anyone consider special mission maps where werehouses, bases, etc are all blown up to a huge degree and we are simply fighting in a section of it.
You can do alot with transporters.... buckle your seat belt.
Along with more costume options, I can suddenly see a group of players creating a Super Group called "The Rats of NIMH".
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I'm already in an all-rat group of villians on Victory server, one of whom is an ex-NIMH-escapee.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Along with more costume options, I can suddenly see a group of players creating a Super Group called "The Rats of NIMH".
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That's what I was thinking. You don't have to make characters actually mechanically small. You can easily fake it by building specific maps out of scale to be huge. Almost every FPS ever made has had a "giant room" map where players are incredibly small and running around under the bed, under the couch, inside the walls, on top of the chandelier and so forth. Sin had it, Half-Life had it, Counter-Strike (REALISTIC!!!) had it, I think Quake had it... The list goes on.|
Originally Posted by Azerrath
Anyone consider special mission maps where werehouses, bases, etc are all blown up to a huge degree and we are simply fighting in a section of it.
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Basically, you can just take one small room from, say, an office, like one of the dead end rec rooms with tables and a vending machine, build this hugely out of scale, and let players roam around in it like they're an inch tall. You don't have to worry about the mechanics of player scaling, because mechanically, everything is of a normal scale, it just looks like we're small people in a giant world.
Actually, that's a lot like how the spacecraft battles in UT2004 were made. When you're flying a human fighter fighting Skaarj ships against a space station, it looks like an epic battle, especially since you enter a HUGE one to start it. However, when you actually spawn a functioning Skaarj fighter in an ordinary map, it's about as big as a football. It's like a small, model plane, but everything LOOKS huge, because it's all out of scale.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Miniature Replica Soldier! (possibly NSFW)
That's all I hear when I think about this topic...
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Okay... that was AWESOME.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
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Not holding out hope for this, but I would love an extension of the slider below the 4-foot(?) level. Right now I use a combination of minimum size costume and stealth to "simulate" shrinking to insect size on my bee-themed character. Still, shrinking from 5'6" to 4' tall doesn't really give me that "I'm an insect!" vibe.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Why does the song sound so familiar?
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
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This was what I was going to say, pretty much.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's what I was thinking. You don't have to make characters actually mechanically small. You can easily fake it by building specific maps out of scale to be huge. Almost every FPS ever made has had a "giant room" map where players are incredibly small and running around under the bed, under the couch, inside the walls, on top of the chandelier and so forth. Sin had it, Half-Life had it, Counter-Strike (REALISTIC!!!) had it, I think Quake had it... The list goes on.
Basically, you can just take one small room from, say, an office, like one of the dead end rec rooms with tables and a vending machine, build this hugely out of scale, and let players roam around in it like they're an inch tall. You don't have to worry about the mechanics of player scaling, because mechanically, everything is of a normal scale, it just looks like we're small people in a giant world. Actually, that's a lot like how the spacecraft battles in UT2004 were made. When you're flying a human fighter fighting Skaarj ships against a space station, it looks like an epic battle, especially since you enter a HUGE one to start it. However, when you actually spawn a functioning Skaarj fighter in an ordinary map, it's about as big as a football. It's like a small, model plane, but everything LOOKS huge, because it's all out of scale. |
We need more goofy mad science in City of Heroes.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Well, now we know FEAR 2 has it |
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I would think an easy way to approach this would be to adjust the size of the world, say doubling it to make you appear to be half the size. However, it may be that there are hardcoded bits in the game engine that prevent everything from working properly when the scale is adjusted.
Another shortcoming to this would be that the graphics would be blockier when the world scale is increased. Tessellation might help with that.
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That's why I generally like scaling down rather than up. The textures are designed for a certain size, and generally wouldn't look good when scaled up. But scaling down doesn't present such a problem.|
Originally Posted by konshu
Another shortcoming to this would be that the graphics would be blockier when the world scale is increased. Tessellation might help with that.
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So, instead of multiplying the mission map by {{2, 0, 0, 0}, {0, 2, 0, 0}, {0, 0, 2, 0}, {0, 0, 0, 0}}, multiply the characters on the map by {{0.5, 0, 0, 0}, {0, 0.5, 0, 0}, {0, 0, 0.5, 0}, {0, 0, 0, 0}}
Of course, I think the game treats stairs as ramps, so that might look silly if you just grabbed an exiting map that has stairs in it.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Can't this be done now sort of?? The science pack was the one pack I didn't get, but didn't allow you to change models and genders one your costume slots? Have one costume slot at the max height allowed, and use another slot for the minimum height allowed. I know its not quite where the OP was going, but if he was going towards this concept....
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The science booster is the main reason I don't think they're really thinking of adding anything like this.
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Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
Can't this be done now sort of?? The science pack was the one pack I didn't get, but didn't allow you to change models and genders one your costume slots? Have one costume slot at the max height allowed, and use another slot for the minimum height allowed. I know its not quite where the OP was going, but if he was going towards this concept....
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
They seem to have at least some capability for this with the npcs. I mean that Creepy looking Baby New Year is what? 2 - 2 1/2 feet tall?
He has no knees it seems like, but with some adjustment(and our luck all new animations, which means it'll probably never happen
) it seems possible.
Well i've got my answers, thanks everyone.
Just wondering did anyone get my title joke? Steve Martins SNL introduction back in the 70's, it's on a disc i have.
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Yeah, I remember that bit.|
Originally Posted by Slope
Well i've got my answers, thanks everyone.
Just wondering did anyone get my title joke? Steve Martins SNL introduction back in the 70's, it's on a disc i have. |
Seriously tho', this could be done with some really simple reskins. Your mission takes you to a science lab, you enter the "miniaturization device" aka a mission portal, and you zone into a new instance that is the President's aorta (a reskinned cave map) to fight some toxin (Hamidon mitos, or what-have-you.) Or the chip in Luminery's brain, that has become infected by rogue Nanobots.
Heck, if you were clever (and a little sick) you could turn one of the cave maps into a world leader's color, and turn the Hydra into... ya know. Go Team Fiber!
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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I don't think it makes a difference, really. Whether you scale objects up or scale players down, the effect is the same - you're looking at a texture and a model from too close up. Textures don't have enough definition to remain pretty when zoomed-in close and small objects don't have enough 3D geometry detail to look good when examined closely. Something as simple as the weapons in your average Natural shop look good from afar, but look closely and you'll notice most of them are flat and many are just painted onto the counter.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
That's why I generally like scaling down rather than up. The textures are designed for a certain size, and generally wouldn't look good when scaled up. But scaling down doesn't present such a problem.
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This is a problem I specifically didn't mention when I described this, because it would have ended my point right there. I fully believe that if we do have giant maps, whether it be us going small or the world going large, they'll need much higher-definition versions of the regular objects we see in-game. A spray can on the ground at normal size has almost no detail. It's a very simple, I think 6-sided object with a very low-res texture, but it doesn't really matter at that scale. Make us half the size of that spray can, and suddenly we need to be able to read the label, see the ridges where the aluminium is folded in and so forth. It doesn't have to be super-high definition, just high enough to not look like a bad retread of the old Virtua Fighter game.
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| Of course, I think the game treats stairs as ramps, so that might look silly if you just grabbed an exiting map that has stairs in it. |
On the other hand, the whole game is far too planar for what it's designed to be. I enjoy maps that are a little more broken up, maps that include catwalks, climbing and basically anything that isn't just more fields and flat streets. It makes me feel like I'm playing Lineage sometimes. I know people cry foul every time the map requires them to press their jump key, but I still feel these maps probably SHOULD take us through some tricky terrain. That's kind of the point of "shrinking" stories. Suddenly the world is a lot harder to navigate when you have to climb on top of your couch with a grappling hook and carabiner.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I've been reading Ant-Man comics lately (haha i know ant man) and i thought it would be awesome if we could shrink. This isn't a suggestion, I'm just wondering if shrinking could ever happen, with the perspective of everything being bigger and that stuff.