Is "Evil" defined by action, intent, both or neither?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-03-19 09:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Or we can pay people a dollar a day to make shoes in one country that sell for a hundred and fifty in another. See, all good.
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Originally Posted by SDragon
Slavery too! As long as you're making sure you enslave at least one less person then benefits from it.
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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That's precisely why Masterminds need a clown set.
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Originally Posted by ObiWan
You know what's truely evil...Clowns.
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Positron said at Hero Con they were leaving the silly stuff to that other superhero MMO |
Originally Posted by Scythus
That's precisely why Masterminds need a clown set.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So.... elves, fairies, gnomes, and visual sounds aren't silly? Okay then! |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Positron said at Hero Con they were leaving the silly stuff to that other superhero MMO
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What exactly are you calling "silly?"|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Positron said at Hero Con they were leaving the silly stuff to that other superhero MMO
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Clowns are terrifying beasts.
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Only Deadpool knows how to deal with clowns...
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Originally Posted by Scythus
What exactly are you calling "silly?"
Clowns are terrifying beasts. |
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The zombie clown off Zombieland is 100 times scarier than those!
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Originally Posted by The_Volt
Only Deadpool knows how to deal with clowns...
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@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Evil is real defined by the viewer, there for it can be all or none of the above.
Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
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Okay, I'll admit it. I laughed.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
*City of heroes/Champions Online boxes snipped*
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
Only Siths speak in absolutes... d;D
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Originally Posted by The_Volt
Only Deadpool knows how to deal with clowns...
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Well, that was the idea |
Originally Posted by Scientist_16
Okay, I'll admit it. I laughed.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
To throw out a point with practically no context, I'd like to differentiate between "evil" and "malicious." While I could easily call every act of pure malice evil and not bat an eye, not every act of evil is malicious, or indeed intentional. As has been mentioned before, most evil people don't sit around in their swivel chairs, pet their cat and think "I am so evil that I can't stand myself. Oh, my!" Many of them, including most of the people history calls evil, truly believed they were doing something good and great, even if the morality that lead them to that conclusion is often suspect.
In this respect, I'd say that someone who goes out to do something bad for the sake of doing something bad and making people miserable is quantifiably evil by a serious margin. However, that really isn't saying much. Serial killers aside, and they don't make good evil masterminds taking over the world, the kind of villains who admit that they are malicious and are doing what they're doing just to be evil basically come down to Gargamel and Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Doc D. only THINKS he's evil. His best friend is his nemesis!|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
...The kind of villains who admit that they are malicious and are doing what they're doing just to be evil basically come down to Gargamel and Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz.
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EDIT: On the other hand, there was that whole Doofenshmirtz Quality Bratwurst thing.
American Dawg, Starblaze, Neanderthal Joe, Shining Dawn, Tokamak Dragon, Stinger Incarnate, Burning Tyger, Dover Tornado, Big Roach, Dark Paladin, Archmage Wylde, Kings Row Hornet, Prancing Deer
Avogadro, Science Lord
Edgar Nightcraft, Doc Cicada, Chupa Macabre, Dr Forchtenstein, Blood Shrew
Okay yet another answer to the question about, Watch this, and its not a Rickroll.
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23559
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
Sentinel Of Liberty SG
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My inner geek would love to read this interaction between Sith master and Jedi apprentice:|
Originally Posted by Scientist_16
Star wars has a lovely four-color morality that I've started to look askew at since I've been getting older. From entertainingly contradictions like that one to the whole 'From a certain point of view' line, the Jedi aren't all -that- morally absolute in their position. There would be a lot of fridge logic about their behavior if their primary opposites weren't kicking back in a power that gives you creepy weird skin conditions and evil red underwear if Knights of the Old Republic is to be believed. Maybe that gives strength to the 'Good/Evil defined by narrative' theory. Those are awful, awful clowns. I like your signature, though. |
Sith Master: "You either embrace power or deny it, young jedi."
jedi apprentice: "Only Siths speak in absolutes!"
Sith master: with a smile "Then you are well on your way to true wisdom, young jedi."
*blush*
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I have a cat and I used to have a swivel chair....
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
To throw out a point with practically no context, I'd like to differentiate between "evil" and "malicious." While I could easily call every act of pure malice evil and not bat an eye, not every act of evil is malicious, or indeed intentional. As has been mentioned before, most evil people don't sit around in their swivel chairs, pet their cat and think "I am so evil that I can't stand myself. Oh, my!"
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The problem with that is the old adage "the ends justify the means." For those who believe that the ends justify the means, they will willingly do evil acts in an attempt to bring about the greater good. They know what they are doing is wrong, but it's for the greater good, therefor the evil acts that bring about the good are in and of themselves acceptable because they bring about great good.|
Originally Posted by Westley
This is why I have a long-standing theory that if we could ALL hear each other's thoughts, or at least UNDERSTAND each other fully, then we'd realize that all the things we do are "good".
Well, not exactly GOOD, but at the very least, not evil. Because deep in our heart of hearts, no one believes that they, or the things that they do, are evil. At least no one sane could live with themselves with such thoughts. So I strongly believe that everyone really believes that what they are doing is good. Now that doesn't excuse them, mind you, but it does make you wonder about the reasoning behind decisions that some call "evil". If you can get inside the head of a person that does "evil" things, I mean REALLY get inside their head... will you still believe that those things are evil once you understand the motivations and reasoning behind them? |
I've come to the conclusion that holding the philosophy that the ends justify the means is in itself an inherently evil philosophy. Despite the fact that it is intended to do good, it very well may fail in that regard because more evil acts may be committed to achieve that good goal. All the good that was fought for might be lost completely with those evil acts.
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When the cat ripped the chair to threads, was that an act of evil?|
Originally Posted by Scythus
I have a cat and I used to have a swivel chair....
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Actually, the chair got old and fell apart under its on volition.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
When the cat ripped the chair to threads, was that an act of evil?
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You can only find fault with the principle of the ends justifying the means if you believe in objective evil. And since you literally can't prove the existence of evil, it can't be objective |
Originally Posted by Evilanna
The problem with that is the old adage "the ends justify the means." For those who believe that the ends justify the means, they will willingly do evil acts in an attempt to bring about the greater good. They know what they are doing is wrong, but it's for the greater good, therefor the evil acts that bring about the good are in and of themselves acceptable because they bring about great good.
I've come to the conclusion that holding the philosophy that the ends justify the means is in itself an inherently evil philosophy. Despite the fact that it is intended to do good, it very well may fail in that regard because more evil acts may be committed to achieve that good goal. All the good that was fought for might be lost completely with those evil acts. |
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I hear you on that.|
Originally Posted by Evilanna
The problem with that is the old adage "the ends justify the means." For those who believe that the ends justify the means, they will willingly do evil acts in an attempt to bring about the greater good. They know what they are doing is wrong, but it's for the greater good, therefor the evil acts that bring about the good are in and of themselves acceptable because they bring about great good.
I've come to the conclusion that holding the philosophy that the ends justify the means is in itself an inherently evil philosophy. Despite the fact that it is intended to do good, it very well may fail in that regard because more evil acts may be committed to achieve that good goal. All the good that was fought for might be lost completely with those evil acts. |
I've come to find myself thinking that this mindset also tends to influence others to continue in that way (To do "evil" in order to achieve the greater good). And, let's face it, not everyone will always be even close to correct in their assessment of that nor in their execution of it.
I believe "evil" begets "evil".
Unfortunately, the toughest thing to do is stand against something that will help you.
Of course, no one and nothing is perfect. And thus the cycle continues, hehe.
I think Sonic The Hedgehog, himself, is evil, because I never played another sidescrolling game of that (The Super Mario Bros) style ever again after completing the original Sonic on the Genesis.
It was great fun, but that was the end of it for me. No more, hehe.
(Not important, but thought I'd mention it to lighten the mood in here)
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
And since you literally can't prove the existence of evil
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm as big a Star Wars fan as the next guy, but I'll also admit it doesn't hold up well under examination. Jedi don't have it so bad, they're cautious to a fault, but I like that. They aren't perfect, they aren't always right, and while some of them know that, some also refuse to accept it.|
Originally Posted by Scientist_16
...Star wars has a lovely four-color morality that I've started to look askew at since I've been getting older. From entertainingly contradictions like that one to the whole 'From a certain point of view' line, the Jedi aren't all -that- morally absolute in their position. There would be a lot of fridge logic about their behavior if their primary opposites weren't kicking back in a power that gives you creepy weird skin conditions and evil red underwear if Knights of the Old Republic is to be believed. Maybe that gives strength to the 'Good/Evil defined by narrative' theory...
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The whole Sith thing, especially the Rule of Two silliness, is so contradictory though it's almost painful to read at times. I can attest to it to an extent though after running an RPVG for a while. If you don't give a group of morally unrestrained types a target, they -will- turn in on themselves. Nature of the beast, you could say.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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/thread
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
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Yes.|
Originally Posted by Westley
This is why I have a long-standing theory that if we could ALL hear each other's thoughts, or at least UNDERSTAND each other fully, then we'd realize that all the things we do are "good".
Well, not exactly GOOD, but at the very least, not evil. Because deep in our heart of hearts, no one believes that they, or the things that they do, are evil. At least no one sane could live with themselves with such thoughts. So I strongly believe that everyone really believes that what they are doing is good. Now that doesn't excuse them, mind you, but it does make you wonder about the reasoning behind decisions that some call "evil". If you can get inside the head of a person that does "evil" things, I mean REALLY get inside their head... will you still believe that those things are evil once you understand the motivations and reasoning behind them? |
Sounds like you define 'evil' as 'deliberate intent to be evil', and anyone who isn't deliberately intending to be evil is therefore not evil. AND you don't believe that anyone would deliberately intend to be evil... So no one is evil, by definition.
There are people who are evil without intending to be. And there are people who intend to be evil, because they like it.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."