No real tankers in AE?

Last night on my blaster I was teamed with 3 tankers. 2 had no taunt. The other had a 4 billion build (I saw the bonuses). They engaged 1 Samurai spawn, maybe 15 Samurai. I waited 10 seconds, lined up my cones, and started cleaning the critters off. I was pretty surprised when 3 peeled off and decided I was their biggest threat level.

Now I started a thread about taunting, and I got some good discussion. This is more of a complaint.

I now feel like I have to interview tankers to see if they know what they are supposed to be doing.

This is the equivalent of a dom deciding that they are just gonna do attack, frack controlling anything.

I do not mind not having a tank on the team. I understand a lot of tankers really want a brute blueside. I get it, that's why most of my 50s are brutes, with just 2 50 tanks. But this really got to me. 3 tanks that could not hold agro, because not a single one hit taunt. Really frustrating because the stadard response from each of them is "I am doing damage" lol. Yeah, I am glad doms and trollers do not have this strange problem.

Blue teams are set up to be stronger than the sum of their parts. It goes back to the Devs reading comics. I agree Tankers should do more damage, did they miss that bricks on most teams do tons of damage? But they did give tankers tools to save their teammates. And yes, that is their job.

k, rant over.

Unfortunately this is nothing new... I've seen horrifically bad tankers since issue 3. I've been on teams like you're describing with one of my squishies and it does boggle the mind.

I always play very conservatively on a squishy on a PuG until I see what the team is like. If we have a tank I watch and see how he does for a couple of spawns and adjust my tactics accordingly. If the tank's useless, as maybe 40% I see are, then I assume I'm responsible for anything I may attract and play like I'm solo. If the tank's able to tie his shoes, but may have trouble with walking and chewing gum at the same time I bump it up a notch but stay cautious. If the tank's competent, and maybe another 50% fall into that category, I'll cut loose and not worry much about aggro. On the rare occasions when the tank's highly capable I ignore aggro altogether and go full out.

If I'm playing a tank I always assume that anything that gets past me can faceplant the squishies on the team so I make it my job to see to it that it can't happen while pushing the pace as much as the team can handle. I personally know a half dozen other players who I have absolute confidence in as tanks and maybe another couple dozen or so who I can count on to manage aggro competently.

This isn't scientific by any measure, but my impressions of tankers I've teamed with breaks down something like this:

• 40% are worthless at tanking, with maybe 10% of those being unbelievably bad.

• 50% are competent at taking the alpha and reasonably able to hold aggro.

• 10% are good tanks who can handle the aggro a team will generate easily without forcing everyone to wait on them... they effectively lead the team and almost never allow aggro to splash onto the rest of the team. A few are excellent.

Atheism, you seem to have found something to believe in. That I am lying to you.

For me it is a simple case of mind over matter. I do not mind because you do not matter.

I am not saying I know why, I am actually confused by it. I thought I was playing somewhat cautiously, really didn't see a great probability of faceplant. It was an AE farm, cranked to serious level discrepancy. 3 tanks waded in, I waited a few seconds. I lined up my narrow cone, that takes me a couple seconds to eyeball max efficiency. I unleashed hell. 3 Samurai peeled off and made me their snugglebunny.

Ach, that explains it! Thank you New Dawn. I thought they were engaged. They were missing too much, they could have been in there for a minute and it would not have mattered. That is the simplest explanation. I however have two SO Acc + my targeting drone up. Heh. That is why I got their attention. Appreciate the help, that one had me confused. (Not too hard really)

For me it is a simple case of mind over matter. I do not mind if the blaster face plants because they do not matter.

Oh, was that rude? Maybe instead I should barge into the Blaster forums and tell them how I should probably interview each one that wants to join the team I am on. After all, if they don't want to consider the consequences of launching numerous AoEs into groups of mobs, I don't want to hear about the fact that they died. Would that come across as less obnoxious?

Tanks aren't your babysitter. If you need one, you may have to ask why your play style requires supervision of another player. While a good tank will do what they can to keep you healthy, it's not their sole reason for being there. If you die, there's only one person to blame. You. Learn to use what tools are available to get out of harms way. Try running. Try carrying purples. Try anything. But don't expect someone out there to be worried about your every constant move 24/7. You aren't entitled to demand how others play.

Oooh. So upset. Mwah Hah Hah

Other things to consider are the number of enemies you engaged, and the purple patch.

If you coalesced several spawns, it's possible that the tankers hit the aggro limit. I've noticed that I can hit the aggro limit solo with just two spawns. That is, I can grab one spawn, lead it into another spawn, and roast the minions in the second spawn alive while they stand there and ignore me. Once I knock off the first mobs that I aggroed, ones aggroed later come a-runnin', one by one, as each mob dies off.

Also, if you cranked up the difficulty to +4 the duration and magnitude of the taunts the tanks were using will be significantly shorter and lower due to the purple patch. If the tanks were being SKed, they would be -5 to the mobs. At -5 everything is reduced to 0.30 of the even-con values (the ParagonWiki doesn't say it, but I assume that Taunts are affected in this way as well).

Everyone has their own set of standards and ideas of whats right or wrong. People have to decide for themselves who they want to play with. It's that simple. Can't come to the forums trying to change the world one person at a time.

As a Tanker on one server I could be fun, as a Tanker on another server I could be no fun. What is best is subjective but I think best is with those who have an answer for every problem with any type of tanker.

Well, I have a number of points to make about Tankers and their role on a team.

First, not all taunt auras are the same. Of all the tanker primaries available in the game the one best able to hold aggro WITHOUT taking Taunt itself is the Ice primary. If memory serves, it has two taunt auras. If a mob steps into range of an Ice tank's auras it is HELD....period. The difference between Ice's ability to hold aggro compared to, say, a Willpower tank is stark.

Other primaries with strong taunt auras are Invulnerability and Stone. Properly slotted, mobs seldom escape once held by either of these two tanker builds. Fire holds aggro fairly well, unless Burn is employed. Willpower's aura will hold a mob for only two seconds, unless a Taunt enhancement is used in Rise to the Challenge. Even then, a Willpower MUST use Taunt to help control a mob during a team battle. Why the devs gave Willpower tanks such a weak aura, when a tank's main responsibility is controlling aggro to keep his team safe, is a mystery.

Secondly, Taunt works exceptionally well in gaining and holding aggro. For tanks below level 20, it often works TOO well. Depending on the team, and the level of the mission, and the enemy, low level tanks often cannot survive the aggro and the resultant alpha strike when employing Taunt. Try tanking +3 enemies, especially CoT, on a team with only ONE healer. Iffy at best. And highly frustrating. Newby tanks, who have yet to learn the tricks of the trade, often give up on their builds in frustration. It doesn't help them when smark-aleck team mates make snide remarks about their lack of talent.

Thirdly, it's kind of hard to hold aggro when mobs are constantly being blown out of range of a tank's taunt aura. Having a squishy blaster run screaming in circles bellowing for help after one of their cone attacks has blown mobs out of my aura always brings a smile to my face.

In conclusion, all archtypes have their strengths and weaknesses, which teammates should make themselves familiar with, and not play in a way themselves that makes it difficult for their fellow teammates play as effectively as they should.

Cheers!

I think I have diagnosed what happened now thanks to some good Monday morning quarterbacking in this discussion. The 3 tanks in question admitted to not taunting. From my brief discussions with them I am guessing that they built their attack powers for damage. The mobs were set at way higher level than the team. I forget what level diff, but they were purple. It was one Samurai mob, probably 12-15 big. The three tanks headed in, not taunting, but attacking like scrappers. I saw all the activity, and thought the agro was all soaked up. In fact I believe that the tanks were mostly missing their attacks. They set up for damage, rather than accuracy/rech/taunt. The damage did them no good, since they were not hitting. My Blaster is set up for accuracy. I hit quite a few when I layed down my cones. Ones that had been interested in attacking the tanks, just because they were there, not because they were taunted. When i blasted them I was the first person to actively taunt them. That is my best guess at what happened. Now I know to watch out for the stooge tanks attacking purples in AE trap, and I feel better. I have learned that if I expect a tank to work purple mobs they better know what they are doing. It is my fault as a blaster for not being aware of my danger. I thought 3 tanks, I am golden. Just not so under these conditions. Thanks again

Tanks have more tools for aggro control than just Taunt and Gauntlet. Any tank who knows his business should also have his taunt aura running, which for many tanks is auto-hit and will work even when Gauntlet does not. Did you check to see or ask if any of the tanks had a taunt aura running?

And for the record, IMO there's nothing wrong with a tank fully slotting their attacks for damage; that is NOT necessarily the sign of a bad tank. All my tanks slot for damage as well as accuracy, recharge, and end reduction and are able to hold aggro just fine.

If the tanks you were playing with 1) didn't have or didn't use taunt, 2) were not hitting their foes and 3) had a taunt aura with a to-hit check (Mud Pots, Blazing Aura, Death Shroud all do) that wasn't hitting because the foes were too high level, I can see where that would be a problem. However, I think the main problem was that the tank players didn't recognize that they were holding aggro poorly and ask for the mission to be reset.

As has been said in this thread many times, tanks don't have to have or use taunt to effectively control aggro. Having attacks slotted for damage as well as accuracy and recharge is also no impediment to being a good tank. IMO, having players that were not paying attention to the fact that they weren't doing a good job holding aggro was the real problem in this case.