Claws - Still Useless?

Seems like you're looking at burst damage instead of DPS. Claws really is a DPS set, not for burst. It does mean you'll do more damage over a long time though.

If i remember correctly, Focus is actually your best attack. The simple way to calculate is to take the "damage/animation time". The attacks with the higher number should be used as often as possible. The only exception is Fallow Up.

Your fire/SR will probably do more damage since you have +rech.(maybe) But it should easily outdamage your Kat, unless you go in very high end builds. (the best at high end always change when someone find a new insane attack chain and slotting =P )

ignoring pvp, the biggest issue I could see with claws, is that its damage is lethal, which is one of the most resisted damage types. <sigh> really wish they would introduce Typed Damage IO's, that is IO's more or less just like the standard damage IO's, except that the enhanced damage is whatever type of the typed damage IO

Remember that Claws is designed for fast attacking, not huge burst damage. Pretty much all the attacks do good damage per second, but they're fast so you don't see the huge orange numbers you get from things like Golden Dragonfly. Of course, Golden Dragonfly is about the third most powerful Scrapper attack and the second best DPA, so that's not really a good comparison. The only set that can really compete with Golden Dragonfly one on one is Fire, but when you look at a full attack chain Claws is a bit better than Katana.

Follow Up makes a huge difference. It has a lower bonus than Build Up so you definitely don't see the massive numbers you get from BU + Golden Dragonfly, GFS, or Headsplitter but the bonus is easily kept up full-time (and can be stacked part of the time). That means you have a 37% or 75% damage bonus all the time instead of a 100% bonus a quarter of the time or less... bad for burst damage but fantastic for sustained DPS.

Pred, maybe because of the lack of constant big numbers you don't think the set is doing well? Remember it's a DPS based set and excels in that territory as far as Scrappers are concerned.

wow

ok

checks sig... kk still there
quick and dirty...
Pylon DPS test

Well I'm going to be one of the few people who (partially) comes to the OP's defense here and says that I have also had problems with Claws(/SR). Mine is 35-37 (I forget exactly) but that was achieved mainly by leeching XP from task force runs where I really didn't feel as though I was contributing much. I certainly wouldn't call the set broken since many people clearly have a lot of success with it (including BillZ from my home server), but apparently I'm missing some aspect of how to play it. I was just about to return to my Claws/SR Scrapper on Sunday before a major computer failure, but once I get back up and running I'm hoping to figure out how to play this stupid* thing.

*this is me projecting

Playing Claws/SR is simple: you take everything but Elude from your secondary, and Strike, Slash, Follow Up, and Focus from your primary. Slot Follow Up for recharge and accuracy (avoid the temptation to put a set of Gaussian's in it -- Gaussian's doesn't provide any accuracy or nearly enough recharge), select powers and invention sets to reach the defense softcap (you *can* hit the softcap with SOs alone, but it distorts your build in unhelpful ways), and get some recharge (Hasten is enough, or you can go for set bonuses). At this point, crank your difficulty up to +4/x1 or +4/x2 with bosses but not archvillains and start wreaking havoc. The attack chain of Follow Up -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike will keep most opponents knocked down, and the bonuses from Follow Up stack to +75% damage/+40% to-hit.

Optionally, you can take Spin, Eviscerate, and Shockwave from your primary for AoE fighting and set your difficulty for large numbers of opponents rather than tough opponents.

I have a level 40 claws/sr brute and absolutely love him.
Once I get the endurance issues under control he'll be even better.

I'll echo the replies of those who say that it isn't really a burst damage set but...yeah; it definately doesn't have any problems from my perspective.

My attack chain is usually something like Follow Up, Strike, Slash, Focus, and a brawl or two until I've got some Fury built up and then I use Eviscerate on the last few ones alive.

As a scrapper you likely won't have to waste time building up fury and can unleash Eviscerate earlier on.

Simple comparison for you here. (I like analogies)

Broadsword = A meat cleaver

Katana = A carving knife

Claws = A cuisinart

Yes, the individual numbers on claws attacks are low in comparison, but with only moderate recharge slotting, you can keep a nonstop rain of damage going indefinitely*

(*Or until the target is dead, whichever comes first)

I skip Strike because it has a split second pause that drives me nuts, Swipe is much smoother.

I see this thread is in good hands.

Claws is fine.
Skipping Slash is not wise. It's not a good idea. It will harm your DPS considerably. Especially in the end game when you slap a chance for dam-res debuff in it.

Strike is better for an attack chain than Swipe BUT not by so much that you're really hurting yourself if you choose Swipe over Strike. On my next build, I'll be going back to Swipe.

I've hit the 200 DPS mark with my claws/sr scrapper. That's with a secondary without a damage buff. I'll never reach the insane DPS of a dark/shield with saturated Soul Drain and AAO, but I can solo AVs, Pylons and survive ridiculous amounts of carnage.

Well I would never tell someone they should skip Slash, but I can't stand that animation.

Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

While people are correct that Claws is fine, although differently-oriented than other sets, I can think of one effect that might have contributed to the OP's impression.

As stated, Claws does many medium-damage attacks (and a lot of them area attacks) rapidly. Solo, it melts enemies evenly.

On a team, it might interact a bit differently with the team dynamics.

Fast-animating Claws area attacks quickly take a big chunk of life from many foes, but kill none of them. Then Broadsword and Martial Arts Scrappers pound one or two or three targets to death with their big hitters -- targets already wounded by the Claws Scrapper. Then the Claws Scrapper nearly finishes off the remaining foes with another AoE. Then the other Scrappers actually finish off several of the foes with their (less effective) AoEs.

End result -- although a lot of the damage from the high-damage attacks from the other Scrappers was "wasted" (doing a 335-point hit to someone the Claws Scrapper left with only 50 life, for example), none of that "wasted" damage appears in the combat results text. And although the Claws Scrapper contributed buckets of damage against many foes that wore them down for anyone to defeat, none of that appears in the spammed text either.

Instead, the text reads:

Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X
Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X
Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X
Martial Arts has defeated Freakshow X
Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X
Martial Arts has defeated Freakshow X
Martial Arts has defeated Freakshow X
Claws has defeated Freakshow X
Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X
Martial Arts has defeated Freakshow X
Broadsword has defeated Freakshow X

I can see where that could lead to mistaken impressions of the effectiveness of Claws.

Great feedback and responses here! As just this thread title alone screams for an easy launch of attacks (Zero offense intended toward the OP).

Claws is just such a popular and successful powerset that the idea that it is or ever was "useless" is such an extreme thing, hehe

I think this is an example of how cool the different powersets are within this game : )
(And of how cool this community is, at large)

Different mentalities and/or playstyles and such may not fit with all options, for sure...

In case it helps, I'd suggest to think of Claws as hyper fury attacking.
While some sword users might come and give a big swing... The Claws flash, slash and dice in the same amount of time and with the same amount of endurance spent... You just use more attacks in a shorter amount of time.

I know this is what everyone has already said (DPS), but... I thought thinking of it beyond numbers and such might help a bit.

Think of a wild cat slashing you up with multiple strikes before you can blink.

As someone else said, "Claws is awesome in a box"... I'll add that, out of that box, Claws is a hyper stabbing ball of fury!

Good luck!!

Claws + Willpower = I'll take this mob, you all can move on.

I lucked into that power combo when I first started. Wanted to make a female Wolverine type (named, oddly enough, Erin Gobraugh).

That scrapper's been a steady performer in almost all settings (not so much in PvP, though the speed of the attacks is still helpful there). In fact, after this weekend, I think I may give it a shot at soloing AVs.

My Claws/Regeneration went from struggling (TOs) to pleasantly powered (DOs) to EASY MODE (SOs). Definitely the most powerful Scrapper offense I've had so far (been through at least a dozen Scrappers now, including a couple of other /Regens).