Claws - Still Useless?
By
Azerrath,
Posted on: 2010-03-03 16:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
i... i honestly don't know where to begin with this one.
Billz, anyone?
Edit: (Just to elaborate: My Claws/SR, Claws/Dark and Claws/Elec have not experienced the problems you describe. Also none of them use Hasten, but they do all use Follow Up. Obviously i must be doing something wrong since i have not had the same problems with any of my Claws users.)
Edit the second: It's odd that your post seems almost reasonable considering how inflammatory the thread title is. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the definition of the word useless?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I...that...
Wait, what?
Claws is anything but mediocre. I really don't know what you're doing wrong, but if even a glitch-out like me can see it, something has to be wrong here...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
that an agreement that claws is weak or 'quiet noob stop crying claws is fine'? lol.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i... i honestly don't know where to begin with this one.
Billz, anyone? |
Im posting as to what I think personally so I was just wanting to get some input from some other players and see what they think.
Eviscerate just doesnt seem to give the set any sort of power and just seems like an attack you would get midway in other sets, the other arguement is that claws gets ranged attacks, but what good are ranged attacks when they dont do damage? Ok I understand that you cant have damaging ranged attacks on a melee based charecter, but why have them at all? If you want ranged attacks that badly you can get them with 40+ sets and there more useful than the ones in the set too.
Nothing wrong with claws. It isn't low damage at all. Also, Follow Up gives you a better buff than Buildup when measured over time, and that's not even considering you can stack it*. Claws tears things up. Now, you might not enjoy it, but it's certainly not low damage.
If you are as new as your regdate implies then I suggest spending some time in the Scrapper forums. Read and learn.
*This might be my faulty memory but I am standing by it anyway.
edit
Quote:
This is pure, unadulterated LOL. Your hardest hitting single target attack in Claws is Focus. Also, your statement about no having damaging ranged attacks on a melee character is ridiculous, considering that every Scrapper and Brute epic has ranged attacks, and their damage is just fine.
|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
but what good are ranged attacks when they dont do damage? Ok I understand that you cant have damaging ranged attacks on a melee based charecter, but why have them at all? If you want ranged attacks that badly you can get them with 40+ sets and there more useful than the ones in the set too.
|
Wha...? My Claws Scrapper tears through enemies faster than any other character I have.
What other sets have you tried that Claws seems worse than?
Actual set wise though have you compared yourself to other scrappers? I always feel like the weaker one in the group compared to others, as i mentioned, eviscerate as the most damaging attack they have just doesnt seem to have enough power behind it. I can see it will probably get better if you spend a few billion on fully setting it out, but just on IOs something just doesnt seem right.
Especially if i play that then switch over to my katana/SR or fire/fire scrappers it just makes me feel a bit feeble lol.
Im starting to think its just me thats cursed to not be able to play claws lol.
Quote:
That would be freaking fast for two 50's... Claws is fine. Talk to Bill Z Bubba.
|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Nothing wrong with claws. It isn't low damage at all. Also, Follow Up gives you a better buff than Buildup when measured over time, and that's not even considering you can stack it*. Claws tears things up. Now, you might not enjoy it, but it's certainly not low damage.
If you are as new as your regdate implies then I suggest spending some time in the Scrapper forums. Read and learn. *This might be my faulty memory but I am standing by it anyway. |
Quote:
Neither. i'm not the type to drivel around using terms like 'noob' anyway.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
that an agreement that claws is weak or 'quiet noob stop crying claws is fine'? lol.
Im posting as to what I think personally so I was just wanting to get some input from some other players and see what they think. Eviscerate just doesnt seem to give the set any sort of power and just seems like an attack you would get midway in other sets, the other arguement is that claws gets ranged attacks, but what good are ranged attacks when they dont do damage? Ok I understand that you cant have damaging ranged attacks on a melee based charecter, but why have them at all? If you want ranged attacks that badly you can get them with 40+ sets and there more useful than the ones in the set too. |
Your overall tone is starting to suggest to me that is just another troll thread, but i'll wait on deciding that until i see how it goes for a bit more.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Claws tears things up. Unless you're talking about the comparison between now and when it had the older, slower animations? I know they got revamped at some point.
Claws isn't useless, not on a Scrapper or a Brute in my experience.
Quote:
Im not new here, its just a new account |
Originally Posted by Emberly
Nothing wrong with claws. It isn't low damage at all. Also, Follow Up gives you a better buff than Buildup when measured over time, and that's not even considering you can stack it*. Claws tears things up. Now, you might not enjoy it, but it's certainly not low damage.
If you are as new as your regdate implies then I suggest spending some time in the Scrapper forums. Read and learn. *This might be my faulty memory but I am standing by it anyway. |
Im from the European servers which is where my 50s are.
Analysis of Single Damage chains by Bill
That's SOs only. And Claws has great AOE too, one of the top Scrapper AOE powers, a hard hitting melee cone and Shockwave which is fairly average but comes on top of Spin and Eviserate.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
Claws tears things up. Unless you're talking about the comparison between now and when it had the older, slower animations? I know they got revamped at some point.
Claws isn't useless, not on a Scrapper or a Brute in my experience. |
I know they got revamped, it was after that update i started to play them. The animation times had improved a lot i know that.
As for the other post, im not attempting to troll, i generally either must be doing something wrong looking at what has been said. Im going to have to have another play around with it and respec i think and see if i can come up with something better.
Quote:
Scrapper primaries played to 40 or higher: Katana, Dark Melee, Fiery Melee, Spines, Broad Sword, Claws, Martial Arts. i haven't merely compared Claws to other Scrappers, i've compared it to my own Scrappers. The fact that i have three Claws Scrappers and a Claws Brute with two at most of the other primaries means that i don't consider the damage lacking. It could just be that Claws suits my playing style.
|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Actual set wise though have you compared yourself to other scrappers?
|
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Outside of PVP, claws is basically awesomeness in a box.
The lack of 1) build up and 2) a slow recharge heavy hitter makes the PVP performance somewhat sub-par
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Scrapper primaries played to 40 or higher: Katana, Dark Melee, Fiery Melee, Spines, Broad Sword, Claws, Martial Arts. i haven't merely compared Claws to other Scrappers, i've compared it to my own Scrappers. The fact that i have three Claws Scrappers and a Claws Brute with two at most of the other primaries means that i don't consider the damage lacking. It could just be that Claws suits my playing style.
|
Like i said i could be doing something wrong, or i simply dont play it right. I am going to respec and have one more go, is it worth taking assault with claws or just a waste of end?
Quote:
My Claws Scrapper doesn't have a single IO in her build.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Actual set wise though have you compared yourself to other scrappers? I always feel like the weaker one in the group compared to others, as i mentioned, eviscerate as the most damaging attack they have just doesnt seem to have enough power behind it. I can see it will probably get better if you spend a few billion on fully setting it out, but just on IOs something just doesnt seem right.
Especially if i play that then switch over to my katana/SR or fire/fire scrappers it just makes me feel a bit feeble lol. Im starting to think its just me thats cursed to not be able to play claws lol. |
Did you skip Spin, or something?
And I can see some hate on the animation of Eviscerate, but not the damage. It doesn't do that much less than Golden Dragonfly (only about 18 points less at 50), can hit more foes easily, and recharges in only about 2/3s the time that GD does.
Quote:
I did try pvp with this charecter but this isnt what i based the post on, heavy hitters always have the advantage in any pvp game its the way its always been.
|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Outside of PVP, claws is basically awesomeness in a box.
The lack of 1) build up and 2) a slow recharge heavy hitter makes the PVP performance somewhat sub-par |
Quote:
Without logging in to check i couldnt tell you my build, but i was pretty sure i had spin, not sure it was 6 slotted though. I actually quite like the animation for eviscerate, thats the main reason i chose the set in the first place lol.
|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
My Claws Scrapper doesn't have a single IO in her build.
Did you skip Spin, or something? And I can see some hate on the animation of Eviscerate, but not the damage. It doesn't do that much less than Golden Dragonfly (only about 18 points less at 50), can hit more foes easily, and recharges in only about 2/3s the time that GD does. |
you bother with swipe or just go straight for strike?
Then I don't know what to tell you. This just seems like a perception problem you have.
Think about this: The difference in raw damage between Soaring Dragon, a ST attack, and Spin, an AoE attack, is about 14 points of damage at level 50. Meanwhile, Spin can hit 10 foes at once, but costs less endurance and recharges in almost the exact amount of time as Soaring Dragon (Spin is 0.2 seconds longer recharge).
Edit: And if you're asking me, I take Swipe and Strike and skip Slash, because I hate the animation.
Quote:
One thing to note with Eviscerate is that it's actually a fairly poor single target attack thanks to the long animation. |
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Without logging in to check i couldnt tell you my build, but i was pretty sure i had spin, not sure it was 6 slotted though. I actually quite like the animation for eviscerate, thats the main reason i chose the set in the first place lol.
|
But it's not a single-target attack, it's a wee cone. You need to hit 2+ enemies with it for it to start to shine IMO. If you don't like doing the adjustments needed to line it up to do so then it's probably worth skipping for another single target attack.
Also redraw is a bit of a pain (like any weapon set really) so minimising the amount of redraw you do helps a lot.
Quote:
Didnt think of it that way, good point. I think maybe i was just being a bit short sighted and comparing eviscerate to golden dragonfly but of course that isnt an entire set.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
Then I don't know what to tell you. This just seems like a perception problem you have.
Think about this: The difference in raw damage between Soaring Dragon, a ST attack, and Spin, an AoE attack, is about 14 points of damage at level 50. Meanwhile, Spin can hit 10 foes at once, but costs less endurance and recharges in almost the exact amount of time as Soaring Dragon (Spin is 0.2 seconds longer recharge). Edit: And if you're asking me, I take Swipe and Strike and skip Slash, because I hate the animation. |
That and the ranged attacks being so low damage, i didnt factor in the fact shockwave was an aoe i was just thinking about raw damage, which again makes me think ive been playing the scrapper wrong from the beginning.
Follow-up, Focus, Slash, Strike (or Eviscerate)
thats your basic single target chain
Mix in spin and eviscerate when you have mobs clustered.
I have assault and run it all the time, picked it up at 35 (regen with no revive) or 41, I forget which in my current build but it has been both at various respecs.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Thank you guys btw for the help, it seems i have a lot of playing around to do 
I have a level 50 claws/fire scrapper and a level 50 claws/Super Reflexes scrapper. Both of these seem to be greatly let down by Claws lack of damage.
I understand that claws is meant to be a fast attack set, with lower damage because of that but is it really 'balanced' being that low? To me the biggest issue seems to be follow up, the fact you have to keep spamming it over and over to get any type of damage just seems a bit wrong. Even if you spam follow up you still need hasten to hit the damage of build up. I realise follow up is constant addition to damage but because the damage is so low to begin with the boost just puts us just below the regular damage of other sets it seems.
If claws had build up like the others it might help the issue a bit but I wanted to see if anyone else had found a solution to claws mediocre damage output. Any suggestions or is it just underpowered?