Farming and Power Leveling in CoX
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-02-15 10:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Villains.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Meh, who farms tech anyways?
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Well, I do on my SS/WP Brute when the mood strikes me (one of the liberate TV missions).
I fight a lot of Rikti, if you count Borea missions as Farming that is.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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It doesn't. It's a common misconception, but the devs don't object to it. They have stated very plainly that farming and PL'ing are not exploitative or prohibited behavior.|
Originally Posted by David_Scorpio
I'm a fairly long-time MMO(RPG)er, and I have been wondering about this for some time. Why does it matter if people are farming or power leveling?
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HOWEVER - farming in AE *IS* prohibited. AE is intended for telling stories and farming/PL'ing is not allowed.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Then you also have the people who just don't want to 'work' in a game, and are perfectly happy making due with what they rake in during 'normal' game play.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Look, this topic is old.
There's a bunch of people who don't want to work for drops/money in this game and think it should be handed to them on a silver platter. Then, there is a bunch of people who work for their drops and their ingame currency. That is how it is. There is no discussion beyond that. |
But otherwise, yes.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I find Farming insanely Boring also, but I have started farming a lot recently. Why? Because trying to get money to buy IOs, or finding drops to put together any set just takes too long otherwise. People complain that purple IOs should be rare, that not everyone needs them. Well such rarity is what forces those of us who want to progress our characters past just hitting 50, and seeing all content, to farm. |
Originally Posted by Westley
I don't farm because I find it BORING.
However, if other people want to treat their game like a part or full-time job, they are free to do so. Just means cheaper stuff for me to buy in the future. |
The inflation of prices is a problem. But I blame the Devs for this. The amount of Influence going into the economy compared to the rate of drops is what does it. If less influence dropped from mobs, but more items where being put into the economy, then prices would drop drastically.
I mean why is it that recipes are so rare and expensive that a person who decides to play the way "it was meant to be", who progresses naturally by doing contacts, missions, taskforces, finds himself with far less than the farmer. I say increase the amount of drops and influence from completing contacts and missions, and you will find a lot more people clamoring to do them.
As to Power leveling, I can't really think of any justifiable reason why people hate it. A lot said against it so far seems logical on paper, but personally I have never experienced any negatives from it. So a new player gets to 50 in 3 days and doesn't know where Steel Canyon is, I for one am glad there are new players around, and enjoy showing them around. And besides, is it so hard to grasp the idea that very few people exclusively play a certain way? Just because some 50 spends the day recruiting to power level doesn't suddenly make him the scum of the earth who can't enjoy the lore of the game.
I do enjoy that aspect of the game, sometimes its nice and refreshing to have a choice. Some characters I want at 50, though for the most part I enjoy the progression much more. I only have 3 50s since starting the game in 2005. I also enjoy powerlevlling friends. Its nice to say "yeah sure Ill Power level you for a bit" to someone. Its like my good deed of the day
The amount of stuff to do at 50 is huge, so many zones, lots of level 50 contacts (and I do think this game actually has some really fun to read story arcs), and taskforces. If some powereleveled level 50 noob leaves because of lack of content, well he certainly isn't going to enjoy the lower level content any more than if he was forced to go through it at a slower pace :/
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You DO realize that you CAN "see all content" with just SOs... right?| Well such rarity is what forces those of us who want ... seeing all content, to farm. |
The only reason anyone would "need" purples is for the aforementioned "advancement past 50", and people like me that like the game 1-50 don't need that advancement because we can just roll up another alt.
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I need purples because I am anal, and I must be the best. |
Originally Posted by Westley
You DO realize that you CAN "see all content" with just SOs... right?
The only reason anyone would "need" purples is for the aforementioned "advancement past 50", and people like me that like the game 1-50 don't need that advancement because we can just roll up another alt. |
I dont even care about content, as long as my characters are better than yours.
I know it's all in my head
Good for you PP, good for you. Whatever keeps your puppy eyes radiating that pure love.
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Originally Posted by WindsOfFate
The inflation of prices is a problem. But I blame the Devs for this. The amount of Influence going into the economy compared to the rate of drops is what does it. If less influence dropped from mobs, but more items where being put into the economy, then prices would drop drastically. |
Yeah, it was the dev's fault that the players greedily and without mercy exploited the living hell out of AE, helping to create the rampant inflation we see now.
It is only the dev's fault to the narrow limit that they didn't listen to those of us before AE hit that the players would do such a thing. I, personally, left before AE because I knew what would happen and did not want to play that way. They lost my subscription for those issues, but that is the extent I could possibly blame them. They were not directly responsible for the atrocities players caused during that, or any other period.
Ignoring the nearsightedness of simply blaming devs for player created behaviors, your solution doesn't even work. Drops are merely unliquidized assets. They will be sold, either to a vendor for inf or to another player. To a player, no inf is actually generated and possibly a small amount destroyed. If to a vendor, then inf is still created with that value being controlled in much the same manner that inf would have been originally dropped from the defeat. If a game floods the market with useless items (i.e. they cannot keep generating worth of some kind) then the mechanism of giving drops falls apart completely.
Simply dropping more items, as is the common universal remedy from player suggestions is not some kind of cure all.
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Well thats exactly what I said. Those who want progression past having done at least most of the content. Anyway some harder level encounters villain side are tough without either good IOS or optimal team makeup. |
Originally Posted by Westley
You DO realize that you CAN "see all content" with just SOs... right?
The only reason anyone would "need" purples is for the aforementioned "advancement past 50", and people like me that like the game 1-50 don't need that advancement because we can just roll up another alt. |
Which reminds me of another point. On certain servers its getting very hard to find people to team up with, so sometimes we run Taskforces such as ITF with less than the optimal number. At that point having more than SO's is a big help.
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Here you go, this should help. |
Originally Posted by WindsOfFate
Which reminds me of another point. On certain servers its getting very hard to find people to team up with, so sometimes we run Taskforces such as ITF with less than the optimal number.
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What is wrong with the AE? Its not exactly super cheap to get recipes from it. You don't get salvage drops, if you want to roll on a rare, thats 500 tickets. AE simply concentrates your reward towards recipes, with the the gold rolls still 4000 tickets worth. |
Originally Posted by brophog02
I
I. Drops are merely unliquidized assets. They will be sold, either to a vendor for inf or to another player. To a player, no inf is actually generated and possibly a small amount destroyed. If to a vendor, then inf is still created with that value being controlled in much the same manner that inf would have been originally dropped from the defeat. If a game floods the market with useless items (i.e. they cannot keep generating worth of some kind) then the mechanism of giving drops falls apart completely. |
Well trading is a good thing, I dont see what is wrong with selling them. The point was that people are complaining about the great expense of the items, compared with how much influence one gets just playing through the game without farming.
If the rate of goods going into the economy is greater than the influence, influence becomes more valuable, and people will pay less for items. So instead of increasing influence and causing inflation, make items cheaper.
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The recent generosity in regards to server transfers does engage the conspiratorial side into wondering if it isn't a stealth cure. It makes it very convenient to merge populations without drawing any notice, nor setting off the doomers that routinely recite server mergers as the end of humanity. |
Originally Posted by WindsOfFate
Which reminds me of another point. On certain servers its getting very hard to find people to team up with, so sometimes we run Taskforces such as ITF with less than the optimal number. At that point having more than SO's is a big help.
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Then again, maybe its just normal conspiratorial nonsense.
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Haha, ok so good read, I always recruit many players, and though I rarely have trouble finding a pick up group for normal missions and such, and I do use many of the methods you use, even going as far as to send tells to any solo player who isn't looking for a team, doing task forces is another game altogether. I generally factor in 30 mins to an hour in addition to the taskforce.
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Originally Posted by Westley
Here you go, this should help.
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Wait, people complain about not getting enough of something?|
Originally Posted by WindsOfFate
I find Farming insanely Boring also, but I have started farming a lot recently. Why? Because trying to get money to buy IOs, or finding drops to put together any set just takes too long otherwise. People complain that purple IOs should be rare, that not everyone needs them. Well such rarity is what forces those of us who want to progress our characters past just hitting 50, and seeing all content, to farm.
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Some posts in the market forum have advocated that everything is ridiculously expensive. By everything they actually mean purples and PvP IOs. Then when it is explained that the sets are ultra rare, and at least for purples, they are working exactly as intended, it gets rather annoying to see this again and again. Now I know why forum vets are often accused of being jaded.
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| The inflation of prices is a problem. But I blame the Devs for this. The amount of Influence going into the economy compared to the rate of drops is what does it. If less influence dropped from mobs, but more items where being put into the economy, then prices would drop drastically. |
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| I mean why is it that recipes are so rare and expensive that a person who decides to play the way "it was meant to be", who progresses naturally by doing contacts, missions, taskforces, finds himself with far less than the farmer. I say increase the amount of drops and influence from completing contacts and missions, and you will find a lot more people clamoring to do them. |
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| As to Power leveling, I can't really think of any justifiable reason why people hate it. A lot said against it so far seems logical on paper, but personally I have never experienced any negatives from it. So a new player gets to 50 in 3 days and doesn't know where Steel Canyon is, I for one am glad there are new players around, and enjoy showing them around. And besides, is it so hard to grasp the idea that very few people exclusively play a certain way? Just because some 50 spends the day recruiting to power level doesn't suddenly make him the scum of the earth who can't enjoy the lore of the game. |
There isn't much of an endgame to CoH. So once you hit 50, the only thing really left to do is kit it out. So, why trivialize the one thing you have left to do by making IO's more common?
PLing en masse is a terrible thing. During the early AE craze, it was easy to quickly mint a new 50 without needing incredibly efficient PLing builds. When this became the activity the majority did, it has the potential for causing burnout. Try it sometime. Do one thing over and over and over again. I recommend trying something that won't kill you in the process.
Any repeatable activity that gives pleasure will give less pleasure the more you do it. There are probably exceptions.
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| The amount of stuff to do at 50 is huge, so many zones, lots of level 50 contacts (and I do think this game actually has some really fun to read story arcs), and taskforces. If some powereleveled level 50 noob leaves because of lack of content, well he certainly isn't going to enjoy the lower level content any more than if he was forced to go through it at a slower pace :/ |
wait?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No really?
Let's look redside:
ITF - Just how many times do I want to do this again?
LGTF - I might PUG this
LRSF - I won't PUG this.
BSF - I loathe this.
Mission Arcs - Heh, maybe about a week of casual play.
Most other SF's I won't do.
I don't know anything about blueside post-50. I don't play blueside often. However, it seems to me that you might have a few more options post-50, but still, this game doesn't have an end game.
That's probably why Positron is working on it.
wait? Positron is working on something? d00m
Last time he worked on something, it was the AE, which was closely followed by blanket bans. I can't wait for the next installment of Posiban's work.
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Yeah perhaps putting it in those words wasn't the correct way of saying it. Theres always going to be someone arguing for something :P But they are complaining about things not being rare enough :P|
Originally Posted by Tonality
Wait, people complain about not getting enough of something?
Some posts in the market forum have advocated that everything is ridiculously expensive. By everything they actually mean purples and PvP IOs. Then when it is explained that the sets are ultra rare, and at least for purples, they are working exactly as intended, it gets rather annoying to see this again and again. Now I know why forum vets are often accused of being jaded. |
But I was trying to show that some people support purples being rare, but that such rarity really is not a good thing. And this isn't directed personally at you, but asking for greater increase in rates does not mean im asking for them to drop from the sky every time I fart. instead of having to kill 3000 mobs for one for example, tie them in to mission completions, mabe 1 in 10 chance, or 5% chance to get one at finishing a taskforce, or have them drop 1 in 1500 mobs.
Actually screw purples, I can understand that they are working as intended because as many mentioned before you can do most content easily with SOs. They are nice and give decent buffs, but they dont replace a lot of the other bonuses that are used to optimize builds that you get from uncommon and rare drops. How about increasing the chances for other uncommon and rare recipes to allow us to work on those first, then work on purples.
And in Reply to your comments about casual players not being able to snag things on the market. I would suggest that some recipes be reworked that a casual player should be able to get them just from drops on his own. What I ideally would like is a system where they can just get the stuff themselves. Also why wouldn't they put it up high enough? It isn't exactly rocket science to check how much something is selling for, and how much something you want is selling for and figuring out if its worth it to sell what you have to buy what you need.
Now for my old man example, back when I played UO, right when it came out, items were expensive. There were very little crafters around, but the more people hit max skills prices actually dropped. I was an extremly casual player, but I found everything accessible all of a sudden, because there wasn't such a big rarity of items in the game, and huge time sinks for gear. A player didnt need to Farm ORE or wood or such, it took as much time farming as it did traveling, or doign any other action. So in the end the amount of goods flowing into the game was greater than gold, prices were affordable for most anyone. Things are much different now though, and everything in UO is super inflated because the game system is radically diffrent, but what I dont understand is why it's so hard to find that happy balance.
It all just feels like things put in by DEVs to give us time sinks. But I swear, I would play this game a lot more if I felt that I wasn't wasting a day farming to get a recipe drop. I would have more fun outfitting my many alts, and I wouldn't quit every month to get a 3 month break from the grind.
I guess to be fair, I must say that I still prefer how things are dealt with in City of heroes far more than any other MMO Ive tried. I do feel that the DEVs are very concerned with our enjoyment. Except for UO I have never stuck with a game regularly as I have with this one.
What ****in inflation are you people griping about? I go to the market and see the same stuff costing the same as before. Purples have always cost the knot. PvP IOs have always cost the knot. And crap has always cost nothing.
Nothing has changed. Why is this such a big deal?
If you cant afford it, you cant have it. If you want it. EARN IT.
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If something is designed that is easily exploitable, yet the devs have the aim of minimising exploits, how isn't it their fault when the system is exploited by players? You might be able to argue that players are morally bound to not exploit something, despite the possibility to exploit it exists, but I'd prefer the devs had not designed such a system in the first place.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
It is only the dev's fault to the narrow limit that they didn't listen to those of us before AE hit that the players would do such a thing. I, personally, left before AE because I knew what would happen and did not want to play that way. They lost my subscription for those issues, but that is the extent I could possibly blame them. They were not directly responsible for the atrocities players caused during that, or any other period.
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MA is directly the result of CoH/V devs not understanding players. In a game where major reward systems are XP and inf, a system that allows players to maximise XP and inf for a set period of time is going to see a lot of use. It was a failure of design, at least in time-reward terms.
I've been monitoring this thread (lurking, really) as the debate has always held a morbid fascination for me. How others play doesn't really affect me.
But it dawned on me that I probably don't really understand the difference between farming and power-leveling. I think I do, but I'm not sure.
I believe that (from a COX perspective) farming is the constant, repetitive killing of a specific enemy for XP, inf and/or drops. The high rate of XP would seem to go hand-in-hand with power-leveling, but I'm not entirely sure. The drops, however, would help the player create a much more effective build, which certainly lends itself to faster leveling (or the acquisition of greater wealth).
Power-leveling on the other hand is defined as leveling at a far greater speed than the game designers intended. That one I can pretty much figure out (I think), and was pretty much evident during the initial release of AE. I think that a player can achieve this through various means (most of which I think are doable through AE farms consisting of 8-man teams against melee-only foes these days), and while certainly not as bad as it used to be can still get a character to 50 in a timeframe much faster than a dev likely intends.
But I am still not certain whether or not one concept is entirely separate from the other. It seems, from a COX perspective, that they go hand-in-hand. If you're power-leveling, you're likely farming. If you're farming, you're likely power-leveling (unless you're already at the cap).
Please note, I'm not judging anyone. I don't have any prejudices about personal playstyles or objectives. I wouldn't want someone dictating how *I* played the game, so I don't dictate how others do so (unless, of course, you work for an RMT firm 
). I just want to make sure I understand the relationship between the two.
Here is the difference, for me.
Farming, I farm. Farming is a team of 1 set to whatever diff you can handle. I set to a team size of 6 with +1s.
Farming for ME, you do not have other people on your team BECAUSE then you are not FARMING you are TEAMING. Farmers DO NOT share their DROPS with other people, it DEFEATS the purpose of FARMING.
Power leveling is when you TEAM with other people leveling them up for EXP.
FARMING has no EXP involved as you are level 50 already, OR, only in rare cases... You have turned off your EXP so you are farming Dark Astoria... for DROPS.
People who TEAM with others are not farming... Because you are on a TEAM and are SHARING your drops, it completely Defeats the purpose. I do NOT want other people to get MY purples. That is what farming is about. To give someone else the purple is a complete waste of time.
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You can farm for badges, but that has nothing to do with drops. It is a diff can of worms. This discussion is about farming drops/inf or Exp for PLers.
Farming is solo to me. Set to 6-7 players, +1 level and go from there.
I don't want others getting my drops; I will take a close friend of sgmate along at times since the drops are going into the same sg bins, but that's about it.
Pretty much everything Perfect Pain said...I team for Merits and badges and just for fun, basically...but when I want to achieve stuff I usually do it alone or in small groups because my usual casual play groups don't want to spend time farming for damage, debt, mob kills by level 30/35.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Farming is solo to me. Set to 6-7 players, +1 level and go from there.
I don't want others getting my drops; I will take a close friend of sgmate along at times since the drops are going into the same sg bins, but that's about it. Pretty much everything Perfect Pain said...I team for Merits and badges and just for fun, basically...but when I want to achieve stuff I usually do it alone or in small groups because my usual casual play groups don't want to spend time farming for damage, debt, mob kills by level 30/35. |
I team for fun, I farm for Bling.
Meh, who farms tech anyways?