Things that are more difficult redside, and hence more fun.
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2010-02-10 13:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The first one |
Originally Posted by craggy
unbeatable combination or oil and water?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
personal experience tends to disagree GG, but I'm willing to accept that you might be perfect. wouldn't be the first girl I'd met who was.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
Or at least believed she was 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
'Tyrant' was first used in ancient Greece, and simply meant 'ruler.' It didn't pick up its negative connotations until later.
As to whether or not the Loyalists can be considered 'good', I'd say the extent of the threat posed by the Devouring Earth would have to be considered. How squeamish can you really afford to be about Emperor Cole's rule if the alternative is the slaughter of every man, woman and child on the planet by the DE?
Cole, in all of his incarnations except Statesman, seems to believe that 'the ends justify the means', as in this quote from Imperious when he introduces himself to villains.
"Before you go, know this: valor and justice are traits I hold above all others. However... I am a man who is willing to do whatever it takes to reach my ends. This is something others from your time seem squeamish towards. Something tells me you will not have that problem. Come then, let us paint the stones with the blood of our enemies!"
Imperious has a usurper to deal with, a usurper allied to time travelling, high tech alien nazis. Emperor Cole has the DE covering most of the planet. By comparison Statesman only has his old pal Stefan and his goon squad sitting off the coast. There's less at stake for him. He can afford the luxury of being 'good.'
I think you'll find the DE threat is not quite as big as it first appears
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I count nothing on intuition. It is a gut feel your Instantaneous reaction to one point in time, which unfortunately does not make it apart of an unbeatable combo. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Logic and feminine intuition - an unbeatable combination for finding out the truth
And actually reading up on what the devs have said also helps a heck of a lot too |
People (including the devs) can say something to bring in their personal viewpoints towards a character. Also they could say anything to make people hype about it whether it is a viewpoint or actual fact we will not know till we actually go through it and make our own decisions with all information given to us, not just partials.
On a standpoint of looking back it seems though that a lot of people have made up their minds for RP sake or just did cause they seem to be morally obligated to do so. They jumped down the bunny hole...... unfortunately most white rabbits were not meant to be followed.
I will bring this to you GG.....after hearing the speeches and reading the bios, then reading Superman: Red Son; I will give you there is more we do not know that they are hiding...basic propaganda. I think GR has a lot of relevance to this also you do in your viewpoint where you much like Lex Luthor in it. Cause no matter what you do...you will be made as a villain even though you are a hero. It all counts on what you will do...and yes, whatever is done (what you want) will bring down total anarchy on their planet.
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Also I think it was quite huge but the circumstances of the victory are skewed from what we know. The DE though are a threat it has been known through their history now.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think you'll find the DE threat is not quite as big as it first appears
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I really wouldn't get your hopes up about that if I was you - Tyrant = the main bad guy in GR - no two ways about it |
Originally Posted by Mylia
People (including the devs) can say something to bring in their personal viewpoints towards a character. Also they could say anything to make people hype about it whether it is a viewpoint or actual fact we will not know till we actually go through it and make our own decisions with all information given to us, not just partials.
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| I will bring this to you GG.....after hearing the speeches and reading the bios, then reading Superman: Red Son; I will give you there is more we do not know that they are hiding...basic propaganda. I think GR has a lot of relevance to this also you do in your viewpoint where you much like Lex Luthor in it. Cause no matter what you do...you will be made as a villain even though you are a hero. It all counts on what you will do...and yes, whatever is done (what you want) will bring down total anarchy on their planet. |
It doesn't matter what Praetorian propaganda calls the Primal Earth heroes, the game is what defines the good from the bad
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The DE whose Hamidon can be contained and defeated by just 50 superpowered people? |
Originally Posted by Mylia
Also I think it was quite huge but the circumstances of the victory are skewed from what we know. The DE though are a threat it has been known through their history now.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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How do we know that Hamidon was containted with 50 sups in Utopia. Yes we can contain him on our "shard", but still we need 50 of us and it can be a rough fight. AFAIK one person took down Hami in Utopia, which tells me other things happened but the mystery is what we need to unravel.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The DE whose Hamidon can be contained and defeated by just 50 superpowered people?
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To you Tyrant is the bad guy no two ways about it. In my viewpoint I am not sold on it yet. I am not going to make a judgment on what info we have, cause if I am doing that I am rp'n the ideas of my characters. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I really wouldn't get your hopes up about that if I was you - Tyrant = the main bad guy in GR - no two ways about it
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This means there are shades of gray everywhere, I never played this game to do this is black and white, just the same as I rp in D&D. I know this is your viewpoint and I am not here to change it, just understand how you can just call off something so quickly. My viewpoint at the end of this is more like RS, cause we do not know everything, and I hope it turns out more like that with a deep roots and layers to unravel.
So I get my hopes up for my own viewpoint on it is where I like to stand my own stand where I rule.
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IIRC, the description we've gotten of Praetorian Hamidon sounds a lot more like a giant Greater Devoured (tentacles, mobile) than the Hamidon we know.
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Originally Posted by Mylia
How do we know that Hamidon was containted with 50 sups in Utopia. Yes we can contain him on our "shard", but still we need 50 of us and it can be a rough fight. AFAIK one person took down Hami in Utopia, which tells me other things happened but the mystery is what we need to unravel.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Originally Posted by flashrains
Trying to find a team! Wait...
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+1
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, it's not our fault that Elite Bosses know that they'll stand more of a chance against Villains, so more of them like to have their lairs in the Rogue isles
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I'm sure he will be, according to your extremely black and white viewpoint, but I do hope there's at least a little ambiguity and that the Resistance aren't entirely heroic. There's already a few contacts in Paragon City who ask the player to do things that could be considered evil - Indigo and Crimson for example, who remove a dangerous Malta agent by setting him up to be killed by his own side.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I really wouldn't get your hopes up about that if I was you - Tyrant = the main bad guy in GR - no two ways about it
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| we're probably pretty villainous to Recluse and his lackies too |
Mr. Bocor in Port Oakes has an interesting take on it.
"We have no need for illusions or euphemisms between us. There are those who fight consistently for the side of right, and they are heroes. And then there are those like us, who know how to turn the powers of the world to our advantage without care for the cost to others, and we are called villains. Personally, I would rather be the latter any day."
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Except for the multiple other ways people have presented.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I really wouldn't get your hopes up about that if I was you - Tyrant = the main bad guy in GR - no two ways about it
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I tend to take Hero1's statement that Tyrant is the real threat in GR, not the Resistance over the increasingly desperate attempts of Tyrant apologists to convince themselves that Tyrant will somehow not be the main bad guy we get to beat up |
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Except for the multiple other ways people have presented.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
By the way, all my points, comments and arguments aside, my extreme pessimism has me believing Golden Girl is right. That instead of the unique and intricate character Tyrant could have been, he's probably going to end up Lord Recluse in a white coat.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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If you're a Loyalist, I want the final level of your arc force you to understand the families and homes you are destroying by being so narrow minded.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
By the way, all my points, comments and arguments aside, my extreme pessimism has me believing Golden Girl is right. That instead of the unique and intricate character Tyrant could have been, he's probably going to end up Lord Recluse in a white coat.
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If you're in the Resistance, I want you to understand the pure and noble intent Emperor Cole had and the suffering that will eventually (even if temporarily) befall the city because of your revolution.
In my dream world, there's a a rich palette of grey painting the words "It will be worth it... I hope."
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Tyrant has no moustache to twirl, so that adds depth to his character - although he might wear short, black leather gloves, and have a pet white cat - but again, that's balanced against his lack of an eyepatch or a goatee, so his character is a mass of contradictions and moral complexity.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
By the way, all my points, comments and arguments aside, my extreme pessimism has me believing Golden Girl is right. That instead of the unique and intricate character Tyrant could have been, he's probably going to end up Lord Recluse in a white coat.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I must admit that I laughed.
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Well, if they are going to be the exact same, then why bother with Going Rogue at all? Just give the Loyalist Plot to Arachnos, and save a lot of time and money. The Resistance idea works just as well in the Rogue Isles as it does in Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Tyrant has no moustache to twirl, so that adds depth to his character - although he might wear short, black leather gloves, and have a pet white cat - but again, that's balanced against his lack of an eyepatch or a goatee, so his character is a mass of contradictions and moral complexity.
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@Marcian: Dreams are the lies we tell ourselves so we have a reason to open our eyes in the morning.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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I don't think they're going to be exactly the same. Point: Both Loyalists and Resistance can become heroes or villains at the end of their respective arcs. Obviously they must both begin in a grey area to be forced along both paths to make strong moral choices via their story arcs. The "Resistance is Good and Loyalists are Evil" thing falls apart if that's the case. There need to be shades of grey to both of them, where no matter which side you're on, you can somehow arrive at the same moral position of heroism or villainy by the end.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Well, if they are going to be the exact same, then why bother with Going Rogue at all? Just give the Loyalist Plot to Arachnos, and save a lot of time and money. The Resistance idea works just as well in the Rogue Isles as it does in Praetoria.
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That's why I don't think it's going to be so simple as "Emperor Cole is just Lord Recluse in a suit". I'd be surprised and deeply disappointed if it was, but given the above, I sincerely doubt it is.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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For the same reason that we have different enemy factions - for variety |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Well, if they are going to be the exact same, then why bother with Going Rogue at all? Just give the Loyalist Plot to Arachnos, and save a lot of time and money. The Resistance idea works just as well in the Rogue Isles as it does in Praetoria.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.