Stamina?

I'm new to the game, but I've heard that pretty much every character needs stamina. Is this true? I have a katana/willpower character, and so far, I've only had one mission where I was hurting for energy, and that was because I was gang-jumped by mobs.

I'm currently just hitting level 10 with Sting of the Wasp, Flashing Steel, Build Up, Divine Avalanche, High Pain Tolerance, and Fast Healing. I plan on just using Ninja Run for a while, so should I go with a Willpower power or a Fitness power? Or something else?

Yes, Stamina is a must by lvl20! IMO, the earlier the better! Health is also nice! You'll find as you gain levels you will start to hunt for Energy more often without the Fitness Power Pool!

nope willpower doesnt need stamina it gets quick recovery at level 20 and is superior to stamina. Most need stamina but Willpower isnt one of them.

It's very nice for most characters if you don't like waiting to regain end. Note that this is a personal preference and some people never take Stamina at all. Also note that if you can get a recovery power from your character's powersets (like Willpower has), those are usually better than Stamina.

You don't need Stamina, but it's always nice to have on most toons, even on a Willpower and Regen.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll hold out for the Willpower bonus, then. I don't like using 2 slots for something like energy if I don't have to.

I've taken stamina on 100% of my toons, including wps and regens. On a wp you won't *need* stamina, but I've always thought that was a perk of the set... being able to have huge amounts of recov from qr/stam. From reading the forums I've noticed that a lot of people really don't like having to take powers, so they build some characters w/o the fitness pool and no travel powers. Either way it's totally up to you.

I still take ss/sj (or ss/cj) and fitness on every single toon I make :P It's just how I like to build toons.

Even with WP and Regen, I would say you're better off stamina (unless you've got a lot of IO +recovery bonuses), but unlike other characters, there's no need to take it ASAP, as QR will keep you going. Maybe look to take it somewhere around 30-35.

I don't think stamina is ever necessary. Depending on your playstyle, character's abilities, how you slot powers, and common teammates, it can range from very helpful to a wasted power. I have some characters that take it and some that don't. Out of the pool powers, though, it offers one of the best benefits.

If you take hasten, you more than likely need stamina.

I admit that I take stamina on more characters than I don't. I like to be independently able to go full bore all the time. Oddly, the only two characters I have at level 50 do not have stamina: A warshade and a mastermind.

With QR from WP there is NO need to get Stamina.

That said, my katana/wp has both. How am I going to spam Divine Avalanche and get my melee/lethal def over 100%, all the while not slotting a single endred [except where sets force it]?

Also, getting to stamina, you take health, another redundant power. At level 25, I'd generate 17hp/sec w/o RttC activated.

I am more a tank than tanks are. But...slotted for that...I'm kinda slow for a scrap.

Many people feel they "need" Stamina.

Quick Recovery, available in Regeneration and Willpower (except for Stalkers) is better than Stamina.

Now, I would argue that picking up Stamina is rarely BAD, but never NECESSARY. Except maybe on my Fortunata who constantly runs Indomitable Will, Tactical Training: Maneuvers, Tactical Training: Assault, Tactical Training: Leadership, Maneuvers, Assault, and Tactics, has Hasten on autofire, and spams Mind Link and Psychic Wail whenever they're available... :)

It's not necessary to have it. My characters do just fine without Stamina. I've learned how to manage endurance rather well. Stamina's generally for those who don't feel like managing the endurance bar. To me, Stamina is not worth sacrificing three powers that I really want.

Another note that may be more helpful: While Stamina is typically seen as the reason someone takes the Fitness power pool, and is incredibly helpful for most characters, the other Fitness powers aren't useless. Even on my characters that don't take Stamina because they have near-limitless endurance through other means (like my Dark Melee / Fiery Aura brute who can completely refill his endurance bar with a click power every ~30 seconds), I find myself wishing I had Hurdle. Hurdle is basically Ninja Run before Ninja Run existed. While Hurdle may not be as fast as Super Jump, slotted Hurdle alone can let you bunny-hop around town about as fast as a Flier, and gives you the extra height needed to get over most obstacles. Stacked with Ninja Run, it can let you bounce around scary-fast. Health isn't very dramatic, but it's a nice passive regen boost that stacks with any other defenses you have, and can be used (if you have either tons of influence or some choice merit purchases) to slot some nice unique IOs.

As a /WP scrapper you have access to Quick Recovery at L20, which gives a stronger boost than Stamina (base 30% vs. 25%). If you put any endurance reduction slots in your attacks at all, one or the other should generally be fine. However, they do stack, and if you want the freedom of being able to completely forget you even HAVE an endurance bar, you could take stamina later when you don't have any must-get powers on the horizon for a massive recovery boost.

I can agree with everyone here who's for having Stamina on a Willpower toon. I snagged it at...I think 30 pre-IOspec. At 30 my Claws/WP Scrapper turned from a Death Dealing Mindless Slasher to a Slaughterfesting Bloodlusting Lacerater.

It's scary how long you can go in a fight, with the proper amount of Regen, of course. Which isn't a problem with Rise to the Challenge (RttC).


And, welcome to the game

I didn't take Stamina until very late on my SS/WP brute. Quick Recovery will see you through most of the time, and Stamina was taken as an extra convenience.

On the other hand, I find characters without either Stamina or Quick Recovery to play rather asthmatically.

Color me in the "not necessary" camp.

Roughly, I'd guess that 1/3rd to 1/2 of my toons don't have it. In my opinion,
they're no worse for it's lack.

That said, Stamina will be helpful for just about every AT, and a few
(my Rad/Elec defender for instance) would be darned near unplayable
without it.

Generally speaking, Frankenslotting can go a long ways towards reducing
or possibly eliminating Endurance issues.

Some AT's, like my Stalkers have very deliberate playstyles and don't need
it at all, because they pick and choose their fights under optimal situations...

Several (like my E3 Blaster, my Fire/Ice Tank, my PB's) have End recovery powers
to replenish endurance without any need for Stamina.

A Few (like that Defender, and my Widow) pretty much require it to be effective.

It really comes down to the specific AT/Build and your playstyle. Both of
these greatly affect the perceptional need (and perhaps actual need) for
Stamina.

tl:dr version: It Depends...


Regards,
4

Definitely for having stamina, no matter what build you have

Okay, here's what I generally do with a WP character.

I'll give you my choices and why I made those choices.

Level 1: An attack power and High Pain Tolerance, not much choice here.

Level 2: Another attack power. I push Mind Over Body back until I can put DOs in it. Helps with early level end consumption.

Level 4: Fast Healing

Level 6: This can be one of several things. It seems you took Build Up here. I usually push that farther back in my build, but it's fine if you want it early. Other options include: Hasten, Fitness pool starter, Fighting pool starter, another attack, or Mind Over Body. The only one I recommend against is Mind Over Body.

Level 8: I'm making these calls based on your combination of Katana/WP. This should be Divine Avalanche.

Level 10: Your first toggle power, and probably your most important one. Indomitable Will.

Based on your OP, this seems to be about where you're at now. Following is what I would do from there.

Level 12: This is where I take Mind Over Body. You can slot DO enhancements at level 12, which will soften the increased end consumption a little bit.

Level 14: Since you mentioned that you're using Ninja Run for now, I would take a Fitness pool power (either starting it or taking Health, depending on your level 6 choice) Boxing or Kick (Fighting pool starter), or a pool power of your choice. This level is pretty much a free pick if you're not taking a travel power.

Level 16: Rise to the Challenge. No brainer here, Rise to the Challenge is the power that Willpower is pretty much built around. You get a regeneration bonus for every enemy within melee range of you, and it has a mild taunt component to keep them there. Since you're stacking Divine Avalanche you should be relatively safe in melee range by this point.

Level 18: Nothing you absolutely NEED to take here, but I recommend Lotus Drops. It's an AoE that will hit everything in melee range of you. If you look at what I said about Rise to the Challenge you can probably see why this power would be a good one to have.

Level 20: Quick Recovery. Your Stamina replacement power. Not mandatory to take it, but it's a really, really good idea to take as soon as it's available.

Level 22: Free power pick. I usually take Fitness pool power, Fighting pool power, or Build Up here, depending on my perceived needs at the time.

Level 24: Free power pick. Same as level 22.

Level 26: Soaring Dragon is unlocked at this level. Finally! You're starting to do some decent damage! Highly recommend taking this power here.

Level 28: Heightened Senses. I'm sure you'll probably notice that fire and electricity are starting to become more common (and painful). This power gives you defense to typed damage, which will help with that stuff.

At level 28 you are pretty much done with Willpower. The remaining 2 powers in the set are not necessary for a functional character, and are optional. I would skip the rez entirely and Strength of Will can be taken later if you decide you want it.

Level 30: Free power pick. Can be anything you want. I usually continue with one of the pools I started earlier, depending on my needs. IF I'm having endurance issues I take Stamina here. If I'm having survivability issues I take Tough (or Weave if I already have it)

Level 32: Your big hitting final attack from your primary. Should definitely be taken as soon as it opens up.

From here on you can take whatever you like. In the 30's I usually finish up the various power pools I was working on, with the goal of having I wanted to take by level 38 or 41.

Epic power pools open up at level 41. Up to you which one you want, or if you even want one. I like Body Mastery, Blaze, or maybe Weapons (if you want a "ninja" concept)

Of course, you can adjust any and all advice in this post to suit your own needs or wants. This is by no means a set of rules, just sharing how I build a Willpower character for ease of leveling. Not everyone will agree with everything I said here, but most should agree that these power choices while leveling will give you at least a solid character if not a stellar one.

Hope this helps you on your journey.

Claws

To the OP: People may be giving you more information than, strictly, you need when you're new to the game. I don't know how number-crunchy you are, but as a Scrapper all you really NEED is "Quick Recovery is fine, now jump in there and stab people." I would go so far as to say "You should also get a bunch of powers from Willpower" but, really, jump in there and stab people. If you want more details on how stuff works... we're still here and I for one love to hear myself talk.

Im in the camp of stamina on all my toons as well.

But only cuz I think hurdle+combat jumpin is the beez-kneez for in-combat movement. And health helps /WP alot.

Id push stamina back till later in the build though, around lvl 30.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

I think it's important to have some way of managing your endurance on any character, but that doesn't necessarily have to be Stamina. That just happens to be the most popular one since it's available to all AT's.

If I have a character that has other options for managing endurance and I don't want to give up 3 powers from the Primary or Secondary for the Fitness pool, I'll go with that instead. For example, I have an Elec/Mental Blaster that uses Drain Psyche, a DB/Fire Scrapper with Consume, a Kin/Energy Defender with Transference, and a Spines/Regen Scrapper and a Willpower/War Mace Tanker with Quick Recovery instead of Stamina (although the Spines/Regen has Swift from Fitness to counter the speed penalty of Stealth, which I took to fit his shapeshifter concept).

In some cases I have characters that will take Stamina on top of the endurance powers in their primary or secondary. In those cases, it's usually because there are powers in the primary/secondary that I don't plan on taking and I can spare the 3 power choices for it. That's usually either because I wouldn't find them useful without a heavy investment of enhancement slots, or at all. Another of the benefits of the Fitness pool that isn't mentioned often is that they don't need a lot of slots to be effective. You'll only need 3 slots, at most, for a Fitness power because they all have only one enhanceable effect, and, especially for the earlier powers in the pool, I can get away with leaving them with the one slot that came with the power if I need to. Examples in my roster would be my Rad/Rad Defender (Accelerate Metabolism), my Energy/Energy Stalker (Energy Drain and Conserve Power), my Mind/Psi Dominator (Drain Psyche), and my Ice/Cold Controller (Heat Loss).

But regardless of whether a character uses Stamina by itself or in conjuction with other powers to manage End, I'm usually not in a hurry to get it ASAP, like many who insist on taking it at Lv. 20. I usually take the prerequisites at Lv. 22 and 24, then Stamina itself at Lv. 30. Until then, I rely on end cost reduction enhancements. Even after I've gotten Stamina, my standard slotting for an attack is 3 DMG, 2 ACC, and 1 END.