Stamina?

Just because you mentioned using ninja run, and seem to be worried about stamina, I'll throw in that with Hurdle+Ninja Run will get you going as fast as a single slot of Super Jump, though you won't jump as high. In other words, it's perfectly viable as a travel power. I also feel like my leg is busted when I don't have swift, but your mileage may very.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=198862 <--- Super mathematical proof.


Willpower has quick recovery for it's endurance needs. Stamina on top of that is nice, but not necessary. I personally think you are sub-par without *any* sort of endurance recovering method, however. But with quick recovery and some intelligent IO slotting (buy cheap crap with endurance reduction) you'll be fine.

Basically Stamina is an extremely useful crutch. For most builds, especially after they mature to a certain point with enhancements, endurance issues will exist if you go all-out. There are three general ways to address this.

1) Don't go all-out all the time. This option works best if you can afford to allow your enemies to live for a bit (i.e. if you are difficult to kill, like a Brute or Tanker). Not using every attack every time it is up and taking things light until your blue bar buids up is an option, but not one many people embrace.

2) Compensate. If you build sufficient Endurance Reduction into yoru build, you won't run out of endurance as fast. Simple enough, right? However, many people prefer to optimize their damage, accuracy and recharge and don't want to use up slots with Endurance Reduction, so they reject this option as well. IO Sets make this a bit more palatable as often you get EndRedux along with other bonuses.

3) Increase the rate at which you regain endurance so that you can spend it with relative impunity. This is what Stamina does, to an extent. It allows you to not have to watch for or build for your endurance management, and many players find that an attractive prospect. There are also IOs that provide endurance recovery buffs such as Miracle: Recovery and Numina's Convalescence: Recovery/Regenaration.

The Willpower and Regeneration powersets have powers with provide the same sort of buff, which is why these powersets elect not to take Stamina more often than others.


You don't need Stamina, but many players don't enjoy endurance management and therefore don't enjoy playing without Stamina. Which is a valid playstyle choice and a prevalent one. It doesn't mean that every player should have it on every character or that character is gimped, it's just the easiest of the options out there to address endurance.

I fall into the camp of stamina being "must have".

Even on my SS/WP brute, I took it, but I did take it much later. Getting Health and stamina complements WP quite well. More regen, and more recovery to fuel your toggles. Especially if you run tough/weave.

But then, I think this is a game and want to play it as such. I want to run in and bust faces, not manage my blue bar.

It really boils down to three things, barring obvious exceptions (teaming with kinetic teammates, having drain psyche or quick recovery, etc).

1) Do you want more powers? You don't take stamina, but you sacrifice slots on your powers for endurance reduction.
2) Do you want more slots? By sacrificing 3 power choices, you need significantly less endurance reductions. I'd still recommend putting one in your top two highest end costing attacks, though!
3) Do you want to not help your team? You could simply not fight at full capacity to 'manage endurance'! Those other guys contributing to the team faster and better with stamina are chumps, anyway!

You could also go to contacts between missions and stock up on blue inspirations. This is actually viable, though you have to go more out of your way on TFs and stuff. It's more high maintenance.

Or you could get like me and carry 20 reds all the time.

Dead teammate: "does anyone have a small red?"
Me: "Oh, you have no idea."

Most of my characters are now in the "Eh, might as well get it" camp for Stamina - mostly because of taking Swift & Hurdle for Ninja Run, and there's usually room at 22 or 24 (depending on when I pick up the other two and if I take Health) to get it if I don't take it at 20.

Even if you put it off, sooner or later you'll have a few spare power slots, and might as well get Stamina.

The rest of the Fitness pool is nice too. They all make good proc mules for powergaming as well.

I like taking stamina, but sometimes I'll hold off until 24 or 26, just because I really want to get more new powers that aren't passive. I'm a shooter that way.

Now, don't be a jerk about this, but when I solo, I like to keep a book or comic next to me, so I can do something while I regenerate if rest isn't recharged. But of course, that's kind of stupid in a group. If you plan on grouping, get stamina.

This gets ridiculous, does it not?

YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA.
(You don't NEED any pool power)

Using any AT, with any powersets...you can make a build, without stamina, playable.

Adding Stamina allows you to select different powers and slot differently but it is in no way needed.

When people say it's a must...they say that because they would never make a build without it.

When I first got this game, I played for awhile without even knowing what Fitness was.

Again I repeat...YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA.



By the way...I love the endurance management in this game. If they took it away, I would probably stop playing. There is nothing wrong with the way it is now. (Especially with the change to brawl...that really helps the lower levels)

Like I've said before, I haven't used stamina once yet. You don't need it. Using a slot for endurance reduction and keeping a supply of blues has done me well. It's not needed. No one is forcing you to take it. I don't see Paragon Studios sending cops to your house because you're not playing with stamina.

To add to my previous post, I think stamina is a nice power to have and it does make the game more enjoyable for me in general. But it is not needed to play the game effectively, that is a fact.

With a WP, my experience suggests that it is helpful to have more end than QR provides with most attack sets. This can be done in several ways, stamina is one, the performance shifter chance for +end in QR is a second and hero side the epic physical perfection is a third.

I played a stone/WP brute, and he struggled to be a non stop energiser bunny until I got QR and stamina slotted up, but other attack sets lighter on end are better off. My WP/SS tank has stamina and PP both with performance shifters in.