So with Going Rogue you Devs missed an opportunity...
By
Atilla_The_Pun,
Posted on: 2010-01-28 20:32 in Suggestions and Ideas
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think they "missed" the opportunity. They intentionally avoided it. =/
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
At Hero Con, Posi said that they weren't merging the markets, but you'd be able to take items with you as you switched sides, basically acting as a "Gun Runner".
I think that they're going to add a third market to the game. For those of you familiar with WoW, it has two Auction Houses, Horde and Alliance, and they're segregated. In the neutral town of Bloody Bay, there's a third Auction House. Both sides can use it, but the market fees are higher. This is basically what I expect the market in Praetoria will be.
@Roderick
I hope that they finally merge the markets, I doubt that they will, but on can always hope.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
When GR comes out, it may take a little while but the markets are going to equalize. And anyone will be able to send a character to the other side to shop and then return, it will just take some time to do the arcs (if I understand GR correctly). So can someone explain to me why this method of market-sharing is good but just flat out merging the blue and red markets is bad?
What self respecting Hero would trade with a villain? Knowing full well that the item(s) you're selling are not only goning to be used for evil deeds BUT also the money you recieve for selling said item will be procured from evil, crime and corruption!
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I do all the time. My pet Monkey likes ArachnoSnaks, Mako Munchos and Recluse-O's cereal. You can't buy those anywhere in Paragon City. |
Originally Posted by Phantom Patriot
What self respecting Hero would trade with a villain?
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Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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I take it you haven't read a comic lately? They're a lot more morally ambiguous than the golden age.
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Originally Posted by Phantom Patriot
What self respecting Hero would trade with a villain? Knowing full well that the item(s) you're selling are not only goning to be used for evil deeds BUT also the money you recieve for selling said item will be procured from evil, crime and corruption!
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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No Port Oakes Pork Oats?
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
I do all the time. My pet Monkey likes ArachnoSnaks, Mako Munchos and Recluse-O's cereal. You can't buy those anywhere in Paragon City.
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I trade with Wentworth's. My heroes aren't responsible when the shipment from the Talos Wentworth's gets robbed by the Council and winds up on the black market in Sharkhead? Nor do I have any reason to know that the good I procure from Wentworth's happen to be smuggled in by nefarious characters in Cap Au Diable.|
Originally Posted by Phantom Patriot
What self respecting Hero would trade with a villain? Knowing full well that the item(s) you're selling are not only goning to be used for evil deeds BUT also the money you recieve for selling said item will be procured from evil, crime and corruption!
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See how that works? The RP argument against merging the market is utter BS.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
The reason they don't flat out merge the markets is the instant chaos it would cause in the sudden shift. GR gives us a nice gun runner meta game and will help even the playing field at a natural rate.
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Who says heroes and villains trade with each other on purpose? Have you looked up the meaning of "black market" lately? And this is in addition to Evil Geko's refutation of your objection.|
Originally Posted by Phantom Patriot
What self respecting Hero would trade with a villain? Knowing full well that the item(s) you're selling are not only goning to be used for evil deeds BUT also the money you recieve for selling said item will be procured from evil, crime and corruption!
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Originally Posted by LISAR
The reason they don't flat out merge the markets is the instant chaos it would cause in the sudden shift. GR gives us a nice gun runner meta game and will help even the playing field at a natural rate.
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If it is as you suggest why can't Vigilantes access the market then? Will Vigilantes be able to trade with Villains or Rogues?
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
Vigiliantes trades with Wents. Rogues trade with the BM. Not sure about actually walking up to someone and hitting "trade" though.
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It's not clear the markets will equalize. More players seem interested in playing heroes than villains, and I anticipate that many such players have wanted to play corruptors, brutes and dominators but just don't like the villain vibe.|
Originally Posted by thebeastgrendel
When GR comes out, it may take a little while but the markets are going to equalize. And anyone will be able to send a character to the other side to shop and then return, it will just take some time to do the arcs (if I understand GR correctly). So can someone explain to me why this method of market-sharing is good but just flat out merging the blue and red markets is bad?
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I expect they will create those ATs in Praetoria and eventually become heroes. While there will be players who run back and forth between the markets, it's not certain that there will be enough of them to make a difference. They will certainly be market junkies, so any items they bring across will not be for sale cheap.
And, face it: the market is only a fabulous way to make money because so many people post things at far below their actual value
Also, there are still a lot of people who never use the market. Although I have IOs for absolutely everything, I was on a pickup team today where half the members had no IO bonuses at all (all level 50s or so).
Recently the market has been way up and down heroside. Common and uncommon salvage prices are totally irrational, with histories like 100,000, 1,234, 1, 11, 1,000,000 not at all out of the ordinary.
Given this kind of behavior, I don't think you can expect the market to ever make any sense. This is a game, and it doesn't really matter how much you pay for something as long as you have enough to get what you want. It's not like you have to save your money for a house payment or to buy food.
Bids are making less and less sense as time goes on. Is it manipulation, impatience or ignorance? I don't know. But when the markets are acting this nuts merging them would not have any kind of predictable outcome.
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This is another outstanding issue, caused solely by the devs unwillingness to merge the markets. Heroes can't give a villain a wakie in co-op zones, and vice versa.|
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
Vigiliantes trades with Wents. Rogues trade with the BM. Not sure about actually walking up to someone and hitting "trade" though.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
It's not clear the markets will equalize. More players seem interested in playing heroes than villains, and I anticipate that many such players have wanted to play corruptors, brutes and dominators but just don't like the villain vibe.
I expect they will create those ATs in Praetoria and eventually become heroes. While there will be players who run back and forth between the markets, it's not certain that there will be enough of them to make a difference. They will certainly be market junkies, so any items they bring across will not be for sale cheap. And, face it: the market is only a fabulous way to make money because so many people post things at far below their actual value Also, there are still a lot of people who never use the market. Although I have IOs for absolutely everything, I was on a pickup team today where half the members had no IO bonuses at all (all level 50s or so). Recently the market has been way up and down heroside. Common and uncommon salvage prices are totally irrational, with histories like 100,000, 1,234, 1, 11, 1,000,000 not at all out of the ordinary. Given this kind of behavior, I don't think you can expect the market to ever make any sense. This is a game, and it doesn't really matter how much you pay for something as long as you have enough to get what you want. It's not like you have to save your money for a house payment or to buy food. Bids are making less and less sense as time goes on. Is it manipulation, impatience or ignorance? I don't know. But when the markets are acting this nuts merging them would not have any kind of predictable outcome. |
Merging the markets helps the casual villain player far more than anyone else, but everyone else (except the extreme profiteers) benefits.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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You do realise that thats going to be corrected next Update/I17?|
Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
This is another outstanding issue, caused solely by the devs unwillingness to merge the markets. Heroes can't give a villain a wakie in co-op zones, and vice versa.
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Until GR releases, the only thing we can do is wait. Maybe they *will* merge the markets, and maybe they won't. Either way, they are in a better position to judge the potential for yay or nay than us.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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They've already said no merger for GR.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You do realise that thats going to be corrected next Update/I17?
Until GR releases, the only thing we can do is wait. Maybe they *will* merge the markets, and maybe they won't. Either way, they are in a better position to judge the potential for yay or nay than us. |
As for better position to judge, not if their own personal agendas blind them. For example if certain of the devs like the villain market as a mini game, financial PvP if you will, then they are biased against anything that would stabilize the market or otherwise ruin the mini game.
The market in ANY MMO should be a tool for ALL the players who care to use it, not a mini game for a few to play. If you want that sort of a mini game then add a separate stock market type of affair and let crafters register their businesses with it for tradable stock or some such.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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So what you're saying is the reason the markets haven't merged is because some of the Devs are using the villainside market as their own personal mini-game? If that's what you're saying, I'm calling bull.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
They've already said no merger for GR.
As for better position to judge, not if their own personal agendas blind them. For example if certain of the devs like the villain market as a mini game, financial PvP if you will, then they are biased against anything that would stabilize the market or otherwise ruin the mini game. The market in ANY MMO should be a tool for ALL the players who care to use it, not a mini game for a few to play. If you want that sort of a mini game then add a separate stock market type of affair and let crafters register their businesses with it for tradable stock or some such. |
K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.
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You have no idea what merging the markets instantly would do. There is a large disparity between blue side and red side so there would be a huge shift in demand/supply.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
Because villains suddenly having recipes actually available would be a cosmic catastrophe?
If it is as you suggest why can't Vigilantes access the market then? Will Vigilantes be able to trade with Villains or Rogues? |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'm against merging the markets.
As I have stated before, I think that GR's dimension should have it's own markets and currency.
The the most balanced world, I'd like to see the characters striped bare going into or coming out of Gr's dimension.
I understand why the villain side wants to have access to the goods in WW, but why would the hero want the tainted goods of the black market?
Influence and infamy are meant to be two diametrically opposing characteristics. I don't understand why the two should be merged into something that only means currency.
Face it. The villains are earning infamy for wrong-doing. They shouldn't be rewarded with benefiting from the heroic actions of others.
If your villain wants access to the hero market, you'll have the option of following the strait-and-narrow path in GR and proving that you deserve to earn influence instead of infamy - and, by doing so, earn the right to trade at WW.
This is, in fact, an old debate that started going on long before the board mergers on the NA side of the forums.
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Not to mention the Black Market Truck behind the Talos WW's.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
See how that works? The RP argument against merging the market is utter BS.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I think that GR's dimension should have it's own markets and currency.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I understand why the villain side wants to have access to the goods in WW, but why would the hero want the tainted goods of the black market?
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Mr. Super Guy: Here, representative of Wentworth's Fine Consignments! I would like you to sell my piece of cybernetics equipment for me! *flies away*
***
Doctor McEvil: Hey, Shady Mac, you got any cybernetics for me? *purchases cybernetics equipment from Shady Mac*
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Mr Super Guy: Thank you for selling my cybernetics! I'm glad I could make the world a better place today!
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Influence and infamy are meant to be two diametrically opposing characteristics. I don't understand why the two should be merged into something that only means currency.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
ya know, maybe people could just play red side more and put more things on the market. there is that option too. if everyone who complained would take an active role rather than asking for people to do the work for them, we might see some supply finally.
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I help supply the glut of Pangean Soil and Mu Vestments, does that count? |
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
ya know, maybe people could just play red side more and put more things on the market. there is that option too. if everyone who complained would take an active role rather than asking for people to do the work for them, we might see some supply finally.
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K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.
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Myeah, I sign to that.|
Originally Posted by The_Killbot_5000
So what you're saying is the reason the markets haven't merged is because some of the Devs are using the villainside market as their own personal mini-game? If that's what you're saying, I'm calling bull.
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I tend to leave the market alone until level 50, or until I get a really nice drop.
If they merge it, great. If they don't, status quo.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I play plenty of Villains, WTH do you think I'm griping? I put as much stuff on the market as I reasonably can.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
ya know, maybe people could just play red side more and put more things on the market. there is that option too. if everyone who complained would take an active role rather than asking for people to do the work for them, we might see some supply finally.
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There are fewer opportunities to earn Merits for Villains, and with the drop tables the way they are if you want some thing don't count on a random roll giving it to you. Well unless you NEED a Trap of the Hunter that is....
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
... to do what you should have done from the very start.
Please merge the markets ok? There are constant shortages of certain items villain side, and the only reason NOT to merge them is because you are using them as a mini game rather than letting the general population use them for what they SHOULD have been intended for from the start.
Please, finally, just merge the markets. It's looooooong overdue.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.