Fiery Aura now has to compete with Electrical Armour and Dark Armour, and comes up a little bit short. They all have decent resists with an opposing strength and a opposite hole (eg very strong to fire, weak to ice) and a self heal of some kind, a bit of a KB hole and a damage aura. On top of that they get:
Fire:
Burn - which is not what it used to be
Fiery Embrace - great if you choose Fire Melee, less so otherwise
Consume
10% stronger damage aura
Electrical Armour:
Slightly higher resistances
Medium Psi resistance
Poorer heal
End Drain Resistance
Built-in KB protection
A god mode instead of a self rez
Dark Armour:
Mez auras
Built in stealth power
End Drain resistance
Huge Psi resistance
For the 40+ levels, Fire sticks out as the set with less special protection - no Psi resistance and no End Drain resistance. Its two weaknesses, Cold and Psi damage, also tend to slow down Healing Flames, so it gets a bit of a double whammy there.
That said, Fire is still very playable. I'd highly recommend Tough and Combat Jumping, and maybe Weave and building up some defence using IOs, which seems to be your plan.
Fire is still a viable Tank. It takes a bit more work in some areas compared to others, but my first lvl 50 tank was Fire/Fire and I still enjoy playing him. I'm considering making a Fire/SS tank in the near future.
You'll want to get at least one -kb IO early on. Some choose to go with 3, but most content is covered by a single one. You could always go Acrobatics, but most folks tend not to do so as it's a end costly power.
Adding in Tough can get your S/L resists into the high 60's/ low 70%. Weave along with Combat Jumping will give you a bit of defense. It takes a lot of work, but you can get a fire tank to the defensive softcap.
There are quite a few Fire Aura threads here and you'll see how folks approach their builds. My own Fire tank will solo missions between +0x8 and +1x8 levels and usually does quite well. Those settings aren't the toughest settings by any means, but should give you and indication of how well a Fire tank can do. I'm sure there are other Fire tanks that can do better.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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As a expert Fire/ Tanker, I can honestly say, that Fire Armor takes a diffrent playing style then the average, stand and deliver Tank builds.
The main reason why Fire/ has such a bad rap, is mainly due to the lack of understanding how to play it by most melee players.Especially Tankers.
Heres the skinny on it.
The average Tanker is commonly someone who requires a set that allows them to sit still, and take alot of damage, while having a equally lacking melee set for that Tanker.A example of that is someone who made a Invulnerablity/Super Strength Tanker.Super Strength is a really good melee set for Tanks, then there are other builds like Willpower/War Mace, and so on.
All the common Tanker builds serve a purpose, but lack any jaw dropping punch, like a Fire/ Tanker does.I used to play a Fire/Fire Tanker before, and I can honestly tell you, that no other Tanker can match its raw damage.(Except maybe a Lightning Melee Tank.)
Your going to hear things like "No Midigation", and "Lack of secondary effect other then damage." when it comes to these sets.Dont let that phase you, or effect you.Your a Fire Tanker, not to be confused with a Tanker that can sit back and take the beating, while others do the damage.
As for the idea of slotting for possitional Def %?In your case, im sure that wont effect your character too badly, being Ice Melee and all, so its prolly not so bad of a deal considering alot of your melee damage will be sub-par with most others you could have matched up with Fire/, but, thats only until you get Ice Patch, and Burn.
On a Fire/Fire Tanker, your sacrificing your offense, to get possitional Def %s, that have absolutly no reason to be on that Tanker.Majority of players who go the route of Slotting for Def % on a Fire/ Tanker, are still in the same mind set that a Fire/ Tank is like every other Tank, which would be very wrong.
Think of it in the same asspect of a Blaster, that goes with AR/Dev, instead of Fire/EM, or any other kind of Combonation that is like the Fire/EM build.
The AR/Dev Blaster can handle diffrent situations, and can play extreemly diffrent compaired to a Fire/EM.The Fire/EM runs in, nuking away, and with any luck, wont face plant from it.The AR/Dev however, can set up a couple Step Mines and Catrops while in Stealth, Sniper a Target, back up, watch many of the mob fall down from the bomb blasts, use Full Auto, and pump away with his AoEs, and most likly drop the mob, dodging the Alpha entirly.
They are both good Blasters, with major playing style diffrences.The same way a Fire/ Tanker is vs most, if not all other Tanker armor sets.
My experiance on my old Fire/Fire was the feeling like a Blaster with Armor Toggles and a Self Heal.Playing this Tanker correctly, the mobs dead way faster then if you threw a typical Tank into it.The Double BUs, very high AoE damage that it is capable of doing, and Self Heal make it a very easy to use Tank.Not to mention the high damage from its ST attacks, allows a Team to steam roll missions.
The typical Tank player, plays a Tanker, simply because you dont have to pay much attention while in a mob.You can litterally jump into a mob, start hitting your attack keys, and look away and watch Star Trek, or That 70s Show, without worrying about dying most the time.Which is how im sure many Tanker players play the game.(Many make mention of it, and have done the same on certain Tank builds on a Team.)
A Fire Tank, requires your Attention, and if you treat it like a Live Grenade, itll do way better then you belive it will.Its the Blaster of Tanks, except it's not shooting a Fireball, it's the Fireball!(Well, technically, you can still get the Pyre Epic Pool and get Fireball, but you get the idea.)
The best way I have found to IO a Fire Tank, is to give it Global Recharge, Accuracy, Regen, and Recovery.It needs nothing more then that.Well, maybe a Knockback IO or 2 couldnt hurt.
This is just my take on it.
I have a lvl 50 Fire/Fire tank, and a lvl 20 Fire/ice tank, the only complaint I have is the end drain and KB, But i fixed it on my lvl 50 tank with 3 different IOs, I would say get tough and weave for your defense, I have no problem with him. I am beginning to really enjoy him. I did a MoKahn TF with him where he was the only tank, and been doing Hami with him lately. So those that say Fire Tanks aren't worth anything don't know what they are missing. I have been known to single handed taken out mobs by himself while the rest of the team is fighting another one. Also like was mentioned before work on global recharge for consume, and Healing Flames to charge faster, and CJ for IMM protection.
I wouldn't recommend a fire tanker for your first or only tanker, but they do bring some things to the table that other primaries don't.
Freedom to build, and getting good early, are the two things that fire tankers currently have going for them. The last three powers, and Temperature Protection, are entirely optional. More importantly, none of them make you any tougher. You have your whole primary potentially in place by level 12. In one sense, it's a sad commentary. In another, it represents opportunity.
Yes, you'll want Tough and Weave. But other tankers routinely add them to much more demanding primaries like Willpower. You sacrifice less for them.
Having the whole primary that means anything early also means that fire tankers get to shine on some very rewarding early game content. Positron, Sister Psyche, Citadel and to some extent Synapse are all made for a Fire tanker's strengths. If you want to farm this content for the large merit rewards, a fire tanker will do quite well.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Picking up Tough and bulking up your defenses sensibly is the way to go, in my experience. Just Tough alone can really up your survivability. On my Fire/Fire, I picked up Weave as well, and have about 22% defense to melee/AOE/Ranged/Psi, and it is a consistent performer no matter what I'm facing. Unless I'm facing tougher situations (like tanking an ITF), I can usually not even run Tough. I do know that the defense to Smash/Lethal route people mentioned earlier can work well, though you'll probably know it when you hit those exotic forms of damage (not too common, but they are out there). At any rate, to answer the overall question better... Fiery Aura tanks can tank just fine. Like any other tank, you just need to set them up right.
I've been working on a more offensively oriented build (no fighting pool, but lot's of recharge, +dam, +HP) to see how that goes, but I only have so much money (without IO sets, I find it lacking compared to the above setup... not enough recharge and damage, and I do feel a bit too squishy). My Fire/Fire is also probably going to be the one to go through the end game changes that Castle has been talking about, so I'm leery of spending too much on a secondary build if he's going to get a lot of other changes soon.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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You can opt to play different types of tanks differently. Some servers are abundant of people who can't do X without a tank thats passively heavy in survivability. It's the people not the powerset. Squishier than granite, yes, has to play the same way Stonetanks do, no. The entire game can be done and no you won't necessarily need greater support doing it.|
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Hearts
After chatting to a few friends on my server (Union) I was informed that fire tanks are actually quite squishy and poor. Is this true? Are they really bad? In my experience I have seen very few fire tanks running around - especially level 50.
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I had literally tanked into the lvl 40s without ever getting Fitness or Tough because people told me before I made one that I needed them. So much for that.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I'll echo what New Dawn said. My first 50 alt of any type was Fire/Ice. I knew nothing of tanking in general or the powersets individually, only that the combo of Burn/Ice Patch sounded fun. I wasn't here for the time when Burn was allegedly uber, so I never knew I was missing anything. Same for comparing to other tank sets' sturdiness. All I knew is he was fun to play; there's nothing like watching a group of enemies flopping around while they burn to death.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
I had literally tanked into the lvl 40s without ever getting Fitness or Tough because people told me before I made one that I needed them. So much for that.
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Having now played most of the other tank sets, I see that Fire/ is a totally different creature. Tanker Ray can't sit in the middle of a warehouse and just take a beating, but that's not how I enjoy playing anyhow. I find that I'm much more active on him when tanking for a large group. I'll either jump over/into a mob, put down Ice Patch/Burn, and then keep moving around to the most dangerous lts. and take them out with Freezing Touch or Char. The damage aura is also wonderfully strong compared to other tanker auras, and I find that mobs stick to me like glue and I never lose aggro. Of course, I have to keep a closer eye on my health than on other tanks, but Healing Flames is such a fast recharging power that this just adds to the active feel of the set.
All in all, if you're having fun playing him, who cares if he's over/underpowered by comparison? Just don't go in expecting him to be a stoner in granite and you'll be fine. For what it's worth, I now consider Ray as more of a tanktroller, or a controller that can take a punch.
Helix
It's a dog's life/In a rope leash or a diamond collar...
On steamrolling teams, Fire/Fire tanks are great. You don't need to stand there and take a beating, just go in and grab the initial aggro. Then you have the offensive firepower to help your team go from spawn to spawn faster.
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The only Tank I've ever played to L50 was fire/ice.| I have recently rolled my first tank and got him to level 10 - and I enjoy playing him. He's fire/ice |
It turned out to be one of my most powerful PvE toons of all the ones I have
(it's awful in PvP though).
Burn and Ice Patch have a synergy that is beautiful to behold, and it has
a number of other mitigation tools for healing and end recovery to make it
both durable, and an effective build to play.
For me it was one of the very few builds where enemy "con" was totally
insignificant - if I came across it, I could fight it... It has enough damage
output for most things (like soloing the wall in Cimoera) and enough survivability
to fight things like Kronos Titan, and Pylons and the like to a solo draw
(neither of us can kill the other)
Hope you have fun with yours - I sure did with mine...
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Fire tanks are awesome... if you get their defenses high enough. My Fire tank (1st tank to 50!) kicks major booty... with 45% S/L def. Guess what, you do that to a Dark or Elec tank and they kick even more booty. Fire's heal is better than Elec's, I'll admit, but pales in comparison to Dark Regen. Elec just has higher #s overall tho save Fire resistance (then again, I'm not all that high on Elec either unless you get those defenses up).
Fire is supposed to sacrifice some mitigation for offense. Compare FA & Shield recently? AAO + SC >>> FE + BA + (lol)Burn. And SD starts off w/better mitigation than FA to boot.
Is Fire good enough to get you through most of the game? Sure it is. Hell, I used to farm demons w/my Fire/EM(!) and did pretty well w/it, even post Burn nerf. You'll just be able to find something else that does a better job at both damage & tanking.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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In a decent steamrolling/high DPS team, the tank shouldn't be that responsible for the damage, just soaking the alpha and setting up a tight grouping for the AoEs. For that, I'd pay more attention to the secondary (cuz tanks still do contribute to overall DPS), epic (Fireball ftw!), and a good taunt aura. For that end, BA is about as bad as it gets, since it has a slow 2s pulse and a to hit requirement (Dark & Elec are in the same boat, and while SD & WP's auras don't last long, they do "stick" faster). Ice & Invul would be by far the best steamrolling tanks. Ice/Fire would be my likely choice for a steamrolling team.|
Originally Posted by Speculator
On steamrolling teams, Fire/Fire tanks are great. You don't need to stand there and take a beating, just go in and grab the initial aggro. Then you have the offensive firepower to help your team go from spawn to spawn faster.
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Oh, and a true steamrolling team would rarely slow down enough to set up some sort of Burn + immob combo, in case you were thinking about that trick. A simple Fire tank + controller duo would be pretty nice tho.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I also started with a Fire/Ice tank. I almost gave up on tanking, but for the wrong reasons. I was taught one style of tanking, but Fire/Ice is not geared/best suited for the "stand in the pile and get beaten for 35 levels" style. It wasn't only after switching to an Invul/SS tank and then reflecting on my Fire/Ice history that I realized it simply needed to be played differently to be effective.
So, more than anything, I'd say you should figure what type of play style suits you, then find the tank primary/secondary that will fit that style.
Fire is far from bad. Well built they can be deadly.
I play my fire/ss more like a heavy scrapper. I can take more than most scrappers and dish out a respectable amount of damage in the process. The key is not ignoring Fiery Embrace. It is a hidden gem of the set and especially when paired with Super Strength it can just about cap your damage, and with no outside help.
I find that Fire does best when building for Recharge. It gets Consume, Fiery Embrace, and the wonderful Healing Flames up faster as well as gives more focus to our offensive nature. If you go this path, pick up Temp Protection. It will make the lower levels less painful (You get to laugh at Outcasts) and the slow resist makes it an attractive selection for higher levels.
IMHO Fire is one of the best Solo primaries for tanks, and up in the top 10 for the game. All your tools are self contained, you develop early, and have additional ability to boost your offense. This does not mean you cannot tank anything in the game. It will take a bit more work on your part and/or a good team backing you up.
As others have stated, they are just different. No your not going to be the toughest kid in the park, but your going have fun hitting things! My only experience with fire armor, even after 4 years, is a scrapper that hit 50 almost 2 months ago, my fire armor tanker is being built up on another server.
I built a fire/fire/fire scrapper to be a damage machine. I plan to build up my fire/fire/fire Tanker the same way(currently lvl 37! gettin there). Now, a lot of people will say they suck, but they aren't familiar with playing one. Believe me, as i Built up my scrapper I realised it wasn't going to play the same. Now im a 4 year vet, I'd never used fire armor before because of what people said about it, now though, I love it!
My fire armor scrapper can farm freaks set to 8, I had a big out door map i cleared a couple of times because it was fun, before moving on to the next mission. I also didn't bother with +def either, why? I wanted DAMAGE!
to that end, I went with global recharge, with a little +HP and Regen!
Now I never build characters with purples, so I know if you do, you could end up with greater numbers! I personally never see the cash for it! (I really don't farm, I like going through the different content I find 
I took CJ/SJ/acrp, SJ was just for theme, so CJ/Acro made it easy to bypass the knockback and immobilise holes in fire armor. Temperature protection got the +res to psi IO as did a couple others. Don't forget Temp Pro offers slow debuff resistance! as does winters gift!
Fitness!
Tough is a must! I did not take weave!
BLAZE MASTERY! (I did say i wanted damage! and it fits the theme!) BU+FE+FSC+FB!!!! blaster nuke almost!
In the end I ended up with
59% global recharge
30% resistance to cold (fire's weak point)
12% psionic (this does make a difference!)
40% resistance to being slowed
and a heal that hits for 674hp every 15 seconds! thats a lot of mitigation right there!
I know these are my scrapper numbers, but my tank is going to be built the same way, little more resists though .
I might seem a little exictable about it, but with good reason. I finally ignored all the nay sayers and built up a character that has surpassed my expectations!
So go for it, its not like you can't create another one! IO's have opened up a world of possibilities that now, make your hero's build as customizable as the costumes they wear!
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
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THIS... build for speed. That heal needs to be up. Think of your damage chain. I added Tough n Weave. I like fire tanks. They move fast, can herd into tiny groups fast and destroy them. I had no problem solo'ing AV's before I purpled her. But you have to be on top of everything. Melt Armor in the epic pool also very helpful. Plays way different than my stone (too slow) and less robust than my electric. Fire Minded's synopsis should be stickied.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
A Fire Tank, requires your Attention, and if you treat it like a Live Grenade, itll do way better then you belive it will.Its the Blaster of Tanks, except it's not shooting a Fireball, it's the Fireball! (Well, technically, you can still get the Pyre Epic Pool and get Fireball, but you get the idea.)The best way I have found to IO a Fire Tank, is to give it Global Recharge, Accuracy, Regen, and Recovery.It needs nothing more then that.Well, maybe a Knockback IO or 2 couldnt hurt. This is just my take on it. |
In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?"
-- Real Genius
My first player was a fire/fire tank i respeced him 3 times to try and get a usable powerset but i failed could i get some tips on how to play him (never gave up on him entirely). i generaly attack the toughest dude in the group and run around trying to protect my teammates but according to your posts thats wrong. am i supposed to play like a scrapper?
In the beginning the universe was created, this upset many people and is widely regarded as a bad idea.
Dont hate the minty freshness
Quote:
Check out some of the other post, I started a thread myself with a build. It has some good advise there.|
Originally Posted by Garjzla
My first player was a fire/fire tank i respeced him 3 times to try and get a usable powerset but i failed could i get some tips on how to play him (never gave up on him entirely). i generaly attack the toughest dude in the group and run around trying to protect my teammates but according to your posts thats wrong. am i supposed to play like a scrapper?
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=203218
I've come back from over a three year hiatus. My first 50 was a fire/fire tank and is still a great toon to play. I am playing her at +0/+6 with bosses and I don't have a single IO set on her yet. The only weaknesses she has are to heavy Psi damage and endurance drainers like Sappers. Which can be dealt with by playing smart. (Char is great for dealing with Sappers in a group btw).
What Fire_Minded said is right on the money. You don't play a Fire/ tank like other tanks. It requires a lot of attention and button mashing to get the most out of one. I tend to play mine more like a scranker really and it works fine like that. You really have next to no defense without IO'ing the heck out of a Fire tank, but you don't neccesarily need it to survive. The jewels of the set are Healing Flames and Fiery Embrace. Keep an eye on your health and use HF wisely and you can live through a lot. Also, judicous use of Fiery Embrace and Build Up makes critters melt real fast so you don't have to keep up your mitigation for as long as other tanks in a similair situation.
There seems to be two ways to go with IO'ing out a Fire/ Tank. Either work in as much S/L defense as you can or work in as much recharge as possible. I was fiddling around with Mid's earlier tonight and got Healing Flames down to a 10.9 second recharge. Which would basically turn you into a one button regen tank and would increase a tank's dps considerably as well.
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On a Fire/Fire Tanker, you are very responsible when it comes to the damage the team dishes out.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
In a decent steamrolling/high DPS team, the tank shouldn't be that responsible for the damage, just soaking the alpha and setting up a tight grouping for the AoEs.
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By math alone, a Pure Fire Tank can out damage ANY Tanker Combo, including the popular SD/Elec.
If you go with a Fire/Fire/Pyre build, youv got 1 Cone, 3 AoEs, and a serious amount of painful ST attacks.Not to mention Blazing Aura, which does count for alot of damage.Many people ignore the power of a Damage Aura, and build Tankers that simply dont have it.Such as Willpower, Invln, ect.
As for the Alpha, as you might possibly be wondering when I said it can out damage a SD/Elec build, is simply this.You do Alpha just like the previously mentioned build, the only diffrence, is that you pump up with 2 BUs that total +180% damage before you jump into that mob, and lets say youv got nothing more then Damage SOs for all your attacks(Who wouldnt?), that adds to the fugly Alpha your about to smack that mob with.(Tankers damage cap is achived before entering the mob.)
The majority of SD/Elec players dont take the time to jump in and grab additional damage, or possibly cant due to the fact they may fact plant, and they end up not doing near as much damage as the poorly looked apon Fire Tank.
With proper IO slotting for a Fire/Fire Tank, vs the SD/Elec Tank, theres a HUGE diffrence, and the Fire build shines even more.
With the SD/Elec Build, many people worry about there Def %'s on it, and its survivability vs the already nice alpha strikes it has.The only issue is, that majorly, thats all they focus on compaired to the simpler things the Fire build can focus on.
With the Fire build, you just slot like iv mentioned before, Recharge, Recovery, Regen, and KB, and youv just upped the damage capacity of that Tank, as well as vastly increased its survivability, and no Def % had to come in play.(Total waste to try attaching Def %'s to a Fire Tank.)
You fire off your Heal, ST, and AoE attacks even quicker then before, and your Dual BU's are up nearly back to back.Nothing says lovin like firing off 3 AoEs for capped +180% Tanker Damage, then 3 more with the additional 10 seconds remaining and +100% damage boost from FE, then hitting both of these BUs right after that, and continuing that onslaught...wait a second...ITS DEAD!
NEXT MOB!Same thing.
It acctually surprises me that Min/Maxers stay away from Tankers of the Pure Fire variety, youd think they would enjoy the power.
The answer to that, is they are of the mind set a Tankers job, absolutly, no questions asked, has to be Defense, when thats not entirly true, at all.
One of the ugliest things I hear them say, is IO for Def %'s when it comes to a Fire/ Tank.The second ugliest thing iv ever heard them say, is /SS "Synergizes" very well with Fire/, because of its great AoE capability.Aoe Capability?Last I checked, it only had Footstomp.(I hate the word "Synergize", because most people use it incorrectly.)
Everyone passes up the fact that Fire Melee has the most AoE damage of any Tanker Secondary.
I cant imagine playing any other Tanker after playing a Pure Fire Tank.
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I tend to agree what +def is not a good path for a Fire/, but only due to the lack of and debuff resistance.| One of the ugliest things I hear them say, is IO for Def %'s when it comes to a Fire/ Tank.The second ugliest thing iv ever heard them say, is /SS "Synergizes" very well with Fire/, because of its great AoE capability.Aoe Capability?Last I checked, it only had Footstomp.(I hate the word "Synergize", because most people use it incorrectly.) |
Now as to the Fire/SS synergy it is not just FootStomp that makes them work together so well.
- FootStomp is a great pBAoE not just for the damage or recharge but also for KnockDown. It is a hight hitting soft control that can pair up very well with Burn or even give you a breather.
- While a bit less of an effect many of the SS primary powers contain secondary effects that keep things close to you, and from running. Great benefit for Burn, Consume, and Blazing Aura.
- And the number 1 reason, in my book, for the synergy?
Rage
Going SO's alone you can have a near permanent damage boost of 80% along with a very nice to-hit. With a bit of work you get double stacked for a nice 160%.
Ignoring what this does to Consume and Blazing Aura the way I see it Fire/ brings something to SS that no other primary can. Burst Damage. 240% damage boosting for 10 seconds (if timed right). KO Blow and FootStomp with buffs in that range are a beautiful thing to see.
With some IO's I can nearly cap my damage without outside help
I think some defense isn't a bad thing on a Fire tank, but certainly isn't required. My Fire/Fire/Pyre is sitting at 24% s/l defense and 70% resist to s/l and he survives quite well, even against most defense de-buffers because of the resists. I've done my best not to gimp his attacks while doing this. Weave plus a few set bonuses have gotten him there. Testing him both with or without Weave showed that Weave helped slow down what damage there was coming in even more. Again, it's not required, but it works for my Fire/Fire.
Depending on the group I'll either do FE and BU and throw a Fire Ball before attacking, or just jump in and do it while surrounded, giving BA a longer chance to do the higher damage.
As far as Fire/SS, yeah Rage plus FE for huge burst damage. Footstomp +Burn keeps them in burn a little longer.. (Fire/SM would also be great with both Fault and Tremor keeping them flopping in Burn.)
As far as SD/Elm, the few folks I've teamed with that have SD/Elm do jump into the group to let AAO's boost their damage. I certainly do that on my SD/SS tank. On a Elm/SD scrapper? All I can say is wow, talk about map clearing.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Originally Posted by Calash
I tend to agree what +def is not a good path for a Fire/, but only due to the lack of and debuff resistance.
Now as to the Fire/SS synergy it is not just FootStomp that makes them work together so well. - FootStomp is a great pBAoE not just for the damage or recharge but also for KnockDown. It is a hight hitting soft control that can pair up very well with Burn or even give you a breather. - While a bit less of an effect many of the SS primary powers contain secondary effects that keep things close to you, and from running. Great benefit for Burn, Consume, and Blazing Aura. - And the number 1 reason, in my book, for the synergy? Rage Going SO's alone you can have a near permanent damage boost of 80% along with a very nice to-hit. With a bit of work you get double stacked for a nice 160%. Ignoring what this does to Consume and Blazing Aura the way I see it Fire/ brings something to SS that no other primary can. Burst Damage. 240% damage boosting for 10 seconds (if timed right). KO Blow and FootStomp with buffs in that range are a beautiful thing to see. With some IO's I can nearly cap my damage without outside help |
Well, yeh, I can agree with the KB and KD of a Fire/SS Tank, mainly becuase I used to play one.It was my namesake, and my first 50 on my old account.(Stom Thacher, Freedom Server, how ya doin!)
The major diffrence between these 2 Tankers, isnt much other then playing Style.The Fire/SS Can stand safer is some of the rougher mobs, that use Psi and what not, mainly because of the heavy ST damage, and KD power.
Fire/Fire on the other hand, played correctly, tears everything apart nearly 2 times faster then a Fire/SS Tanker, with more risk of being hurt in the process.
Although I do miss KO Blow on my Fire/Fire build, the ST attacks of Incinerate, and GFS easly trump its damage, mainly because they both do above KO Blows damage, and you have 2 of them.
Make no mistake, Fire/SS is one of my favorite combonations on a Tanker, or a Brute, and can give you breathing room with its knock downs, but it cant dish out what a Pure Fire can do in the long run.
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Please show this math. Include any recharge #s that support your case.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
By math alone, a Pure Fire Tank can out damage ANY Tanker Combo, including the popular SD/Elec.
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| If you go with a Fire/Fire/Pyre build, youv got 1 Cone, 3 AoEs, and a serious amount of painful ST attacks. |
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| Not to mention Blazing Aura, which does count for alot of damage. |
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| As for the Alpha, as you might possibly be wondering when I said it can out damage a SD/Elec build, is simply this.You do Alpha just like the previously mentioned build, the only diffrence, is that you pump up with 2 BUs that total +180% damage before you jump into that mob, and lets say youv got nothing more then Damage SOs for all your attacks(Who wouldnt?), that adds to the fugly Alpha your about to smack that mob with.(Tankers damage cap is achived before entering the mob.) |
Also, Shield Charge (& Lightning Rod, the 1-2 combo that makes SD/Elec so popular) uses scrapper values, so even w/o FE, they're going to far, FAR outdamage most other tanker powers. With max saturation of AAO (common at beginning of fights) + BU and you're going to blow away any F/F/P combo, and since BU, SC & LR all recharge at the same rate (every 30sec or so w/some decent slotting), it'll be up every fight. Finally, there's no reason SD/ELM can't also be packing Fireball. AAO + BU + SC + LR + FB. Every 30 sec (or less). *That* is a way to add some serious damage #s even in the highest DPS teams (hell, at that point, who needs a team?
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| The majority of SD/Elec players dont take the time to jump in and grab additional damage, or possibly cant due to the fact they may fact plant, and they end up not doing near as much damage as the poorly looked apon Fire Tank. |
Yeah, I'm just gonna stop here.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I have recently rolled my first tank and got him to level 10 - and I enjoy playing him. He's fire/ice
After chatting to a few friends on my server (Union) I was informed that fire tanks are actually quite squishy and poor. Is this true? Are they really bad? In my experience I have seen very few fire tanks running around - especially level 50. So are fire tanks poor compared with, say, ice / willpower / shield / stone? If so, why? I know they have no defense against knockback and no psionic resistance but with careful slotting surely these holes can now be plugged.
My overall plan is to slot for ranged and melee defense and, thanks to mids, I reckon I can get to about 40% on both with not too much cash (except a full set of Numina's but thats why God created merits).
To be honest, I'm enjoying him at the moment so even if fire tanks are naff I have no intention of deleting him. I am just curious why they have such a bad reputation.
One more question (this is noobish but as I said earlier, it is my first tank) - is taunt absolutely necessary or can I rely on gauntlet to cover all my tanking needs? I was just wondering because I planned for taunt in my build but if I could get away with it, I would rather drop it for another power.