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It depends on the team you are on I have the same luck with some teams I was on when the trollers used there immobilize and I use burn.
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Originally Posted by Psiphon
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this - I've found immobs to be counter productive to using Burn.
I find that in most teams the controllers are spamming immobs when the mobs are still dispersed and this reduces the effectiveness of the Burn patch. Shield Charge on the other hand has a much larger radius so I;ve found this to be less of an issue. You've said that your going to play a Shield/Fire - think this is a great idea as it seems to me that what you really love is Fire Melee. It can be a pain not having a ready heal but you'll find that you need it less. For me the big advantage to Shield/ over Fire/ is that it doesn't have the Psy hole, it doesn't matter what mobs I face I've got a good chance of taking them down ( I hate having to adjust the mission level if I pick up a Carnie or Arachnos mission). Give it a go and see the light  |
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How many mobs use Dominate? How many use Psi Blast?|
Originally Posted by Airborne_Ninja
Wait, whats this?
http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ntrol.Dominate Say, Dominate has no positional component? Thusly the psi "hole" still exists since psi controls are non-positional, albeit to a lesser extent then a resist set. |
There is more Psi Blast powers used than there are spawns which use Dominate.
When I used to PVP I used my Mind/Kin troller for this reason. It was a good support toon for PVP.
Shield does not have a hole like several of the other armor sets.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
Just to add a bit more on the Shield side. At a Mothership Raid on my shield/fire tank, I went to place a bomb after the GM was already down.
The entire spawn of Rikti (mixed of all types and so many i could not see...) that went to the gate and inside the small bomb room could not stop the tank from planting the bomb. The tank is soft capped melee and ranged. Shield does not have a Psi hole.
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
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Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
Just to add a bit more on the Shield side. At a Mothership Raid on my shield/fire tank, I went to place a bomb after the GM was already down.
The entire spawn of Rikti (mixed of all types and so many i could not see...) that went to the gate and inside the small bomb room could not stop the tank from planting the bomb. The tank is soft capped melee and ranged. Shield does not have a Psi hole. |
The majority of Rikti do not use Psi, so that is really not a good test. Most raids I am on are mainly energy or S/L damage.
Unless you get a bad spawn of magusssessss (extra s's because I don't like them
)
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Agreed!|
Originally Posted by LSK
It depends on the team you are on I have the same luck with some teams I was on when the trollers used there immobilize and I use burn.
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The point that I'm trying to make is that my Fire/Ice tank's effectiveness, damage and fun is affected by the play of other team members. Playing the Shield/SS it isn't, they can do pretty much what they want - Shield Charge has a much larger radius.
After playing a Shield tank I feel that the way it delivers the damage is more effective and satifying than the Fire/Ice - Ice Patch/Burn still makes me smile though.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
I can echo all of this positive Fire/ tank feedback on this thread. My main is a lvl 50 Fire/Stone with a very expensive build. I recently added the Fury of the Gladiator, Gladiator's Armor, Shield Wall, and Panacea uniques and that coupled with good IO sets (and the requisite Tough and Weave) he's as sound as any tank out there. Pricey, but tough.
For the Fire/ build, I STRONGLY recommend the Fury of the Gladiator PvPIO set. It offers -KB and you can slot it all over. It goes great in Blazing Aura and Burn (if you use it) and your secondary is bound to have a PBAoE. Once you slot it three times, you can dump Acrobatics and still tank the Hamidon.
Fire/ can still rock, but it is not a set-it-and-forget-it set like Stone/ or Will Power/.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
I've been intrigued enough that I rolled myself another Fire tanker on my home server. I used to have one there, but she was retired to Champion, not so much because she's Fire, but because she was /Energy Melee, and the two sets no longer have any synergy, if they ever did.
So I rolled as Fire/DB, a combination that appeals to me, largely because /DB is so demanding. And like Fire/EM they can look good together, and that's important.
I suspect that Fire is the /Regen of tanker primaries. In the late game it falls behind, but in the early game it gets real good, real fast. The equivalent of having a medium green in your tray every 40 seconds minimum (and even with level 10 IOs it's down to 30) is quite effective in making a low level tanker hard to stop. Looking forward to trying this out on team content like Posi and Synapse.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Puce, go ahead and slot a PvP IO set (or enhancement), but Fiery Aura doesn't really need it. I don't know that you were necessarily saying they're needed for Fiery Aura, but I could see less knowledgeable types thinking you were saying that, which isn't true at all.
Hera, my MA/Regen Scrapper begs to differ with your impression of Regen in late levels.
Fiery Aura is pretty nice for Consume, which you can get early on... helps the stretch to Stamina quite a bit. Adding in Healing Flames made it so I could drop most of my toggles while soloing early on. I can also attest to Grey Pilgrim doing well in those early TFs (though he does miss the big ST attacks you get in the 30s with Fiery Melee). KB is probably the most annoying thing for the set at those early levels, but not too much is doing it before Acrobatics levels, at least compared to higher level mobs.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Like I said before, one thing that cab be said for Fiery Aura is that everything you can get from the primary that actually helps keep you alive is all available by level 12. I am postponing Blazing Aura until after Stamina, but everything else will be there as soon as it comes up. And, as you note, Consume is too slow on the recharge, but it still helps a lot, especially in the painful teen levels, and you can get it at level 8.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Fiery Aura is pretty nice for Consume, which you can get early on... helps the stretch to Stamina quite a bit. Adding in Healing Flames made it so I could drop most of my toggles while soloing early on.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Yeah, I find it useful to hold off on most damage auras until after Stamina, too. I know some people think it helps out with damage before then, but I just see it draining my endurance really fast, heh.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Agreed I get Consume as soon as it's available.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Fiery Aura is pretty nice for Consume, which you can get early on ... helps the stretch to Stamina quite a bit.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Adding in Healing Flames made it so I could drop most of my toggles while soloing early on.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
KB is probably the most annoying thing for the set at those early levels, but not too much is doing it before Acrobatics levels, at least compared to higher level mobs.
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I tend to get my Damage Auras early, and yeah they can be a drain. But I slot them for End Redux (3 slots) pretty heavily in the early levels, then use those slots later for Accuracy and Damage. So far it's worked well.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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A damage auras' effect on combat is a bit more complicated than most people give them credit for.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Yeah, I find it useful to hold off on most damage auras until after Stamina, too. I know some people think it helps out with damage before then, but I just see it draining my endurance really fast, heh.
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It's pretty easy to prove attacks are balanced around doing a certain amount of damage for a certain amount of damage. For a single target attack, that's 1 damage scale (44.488 dmg as a Tank) per 5.2 endurance. Unless you have a set with a special discount (Energy Transfer, Incinerate, etc), you'll be paying the same endurance to kill mobs if you use several small attacks or a couple big ones (overkill notwithstanding). Obviously, this means the faster you deal damage, the faster you'll burn through endurance.
Damage auras actually match the DPE of a single target attack against single targets. (ie: Death Shroud against 1 target is just as efficient as Energy Punch.) So against multiple mobs, damage auras are far more efficient. So running a damage aura while fighting is dealing damage / killing faster, thus burning more endurance.
It leads to shorter fights, but more frequent rests ("it's draining my endurance fast!").
(Another wrinkle is that if left on, the auras burn endurance you'd normally be recovering outside combat.)
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One benefit of taking damage auras earlier is that you get to slot them up early, making them more useful as soon as you get Stamina. A 4-6 slotted aura can be used much more effectively at lvl20 than a 1 slotted aura can be at lvl22. Of course, that also means that you're taking and slotting a power you may not use much until lvl20, which could slow down leveling up to that point.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
A damage auras' effect on combat is a bit more complicated than most people give them credit for.
It's pretty easy to prove attacks are balanced around doing a certain amount of damage for a certain amount of damage. For a single target attack, that's 1 damage scale (44.488 dmg as a Tank) per 5.2 endurance. Unless you have a set with a special discount (Energy Transfer, Incinerate, etc), you'll be paying the same endurance to kill mobs if you use several small attacks or a couple big ones (overkill notwithstanding). Obviously, this means the faster you deal damage, the faster you'll burn through endurance. Damage auras actually match the DPE of a single target attack against single targets. (ie: Death Shroud against 1 target is just as efficient as Energy Punch.) So against multiple mobs, damage auras are far more efficient. So running a damage aura while fighting is dealing damage / killing faster, thus burning more endurance. It leads to shorter fights, but more frequent rests ("it's draining my endurance fast!"). (Another wrinkle is that if left on, the auras burn endurance you'd normally be recovering outside combat.) ----- One benefit of taking damage auras earlier is that you get to slot them up early, making them more useful as soon as you get Stamina. A 4-6 slotted aura can be used much more effectively at lvl20 than a 1 slotted aura can be at lvl22. Of course, that also means that you're taking and slotting a power you may not use much until lvl20, which could slow down leveling up to that point. |
I Agree.
I've levelled a couple of Fire Tanks and found that street sweeping large mobs of Green or Blue con Minions in the Hollows worked well in the early levels.
The Aura ticks away while you concentrate on the Lieutenants and Bosses.
This way you get lots of Insp drops too.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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I almost made that exact same point, but it's been a while since I leveled a Tank with a damage aura, so I forgot how effective it was in practice.|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
I Agree.
I've levelled a couple of Fire Tanks and found that street sweeping large mobs of Green or Blue con Minions in the Hollows worked well in the early levels. The Aura ticks away while you concentrate on the Lieutenants and Bosses. This way you get lots of Insp drops too. |
The bit about inspirations is pretty important, too. Maximizing insp/time greatly increases character effectiveness, especially at low levels. It's kind of like Fury, in a way. The faster you earn insps, the faster you can go through mobs (kill faster, less downtime) which helps speed up / maintain the influx of inspirations.
http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ntrol.Dominate
Say, Dominate has no positional component?
Thusly the psi "hole" still exists since psi controls are non-positional, albeit to a lesser extent then a resist set.
The point of my statement was that due to a Shield tank's defence being positional it doesn't make too much difference what mobs and damage it's up against it's generaly equally effective.
I solo my Shield/SS at +2/x8 against most mobs including Carnies.
My Ice and Fire tanks are capable of the same (the Ice actually more +4/x8) but come unstuck if the mobs in question are dishing out alot of psi damage - to me that is a psi hole.
If you want to be pedantic you could say that Shield has a psi crack but I wouldn't call it a hole.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller