Quote:
Earth and Ice are the two lowest damage controller primaries. Earth slightly beats out Ice . . . depending on the effectiveness of Arctic Air's confusion. Earth's Animate Stone a/k/a Rocky a/k/a Stoney a/k/a Poo Man does better damage and is more durable than Jack Frost, while Jack has some control powers (slow, hold). Rocky has been much improved by the addition of Seismic Smash, which includes a hold with its good damage.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Ok, I have a couple questions.
The comments been made that you get your damage in the Earth Control set when you get your Golem.Does it really hit that hard?Cuase im noticing that my Damaging Attacks dont do much Damage, however im sure the damage improves with getting more powers to layer over the last. |
Can you solo an Earth Controller? Sure, but don't expect it to be very fast. Take Stone Prison and slot it as a damage power (I skip this on a team build). Slot Fossilize for damage. Slot as many damage procs in Stone Cages as you can, and even add damage procs to Volcanic Gasses and Quicksand. It will feel as though you are carving an Ice Scupture with a pocket knife, but you will eventually get there. Rocky helps A LOT. Adding damage from your secondary (Storm or TA) also helps a lot -- a high level Earth/Storm or Earth/TA can solo at an almost bearable speed. And the APP sets also make a big difference.
Quote:
One of you made mention of having a Fire/TA Controller.I have some questions on that.The main one on my mind, is when you light Oil Slick, does it just desimate the enemy mob you have locked down? I have no idea the damage of Oil Slick.Is it Slow Ticks with high damage?Low Damage and fast clicks, but cuasing alot of DoT? I know that the obvious Fire Control attacks can start the Oil Slick, but is there anything else in your secondary that can start it as well? |
I have an Illusion/TA at 50, but two aspects of Fire/TA cause me to avoid that combo. First, I consider TA to be a ranged set. Sure, you can fire off you arrows melee, but while you are shooting, you are a sitting duck. One of the main damage powers in Fire is Hot Feet, which means you either have to go into melee and stay there, or run in and out of melee. The ToHit Debuff in TA is not very strong even combined with Smoke, so you will get hit a lot when you are in melee. With no heal, that could be a problem. Second, the lit Oil Slick Arrow causes the Fire Imps to run away. Actually, it causes all controller pets to run away, but since Fire Imps only have melee attacks, it is a bigger problem for Fire/TA. On my Ill/TA, Phantasm and Phantom Army all have ranged attacks.
Quote:
|
I want to go either Ice/TA, or Mind/Cold, so im curious if theres anything in TA that can start the oil Slick on fire?I think its a bit fair to say ice wont start a fire!LOL!I want to avoid a Fire/TA if I can, even though the Oil Slick question on damage does seem tempting if its decent, that and the Sonic Arrow, and others would make it fun to help it along. If something else I have can set off the Slick if I go Ice Primary, then ill be happy to go Ice/TA....or Mind/Cold.....I hate making up my mind... I have 5 possible combos on the table, ill let you guys tell me which is rarer. The choices are. Ice/TA Mind/Cold Mind/TA Grav/TA Fire/TA (Only if Ice/TA doesnt have a viable option to light Oil Slick, and if it does, then this is not on the list.) If you guys come up with a more interesting and rare combo, toss it up there with your vote, ill let this ride for a few days before checking back on what you guys voted on. This will be the first time ill have ever done this, but, ill create the combo everyone agrees on, and play it without a complaint.You guys can pick for me, if you like.  Good Luck, be back to see what you guys think I should play in a few days.(or till my Earth/Sonic dings atleast 35, which will take a few days of casual soloing anyhow.) 
|
Keep in mind that Mind, Ice and Grav have nothing to light the Oil Slick -- however, you don't get Oil Slick until level 35, and then you can get Fireblast or Fireball (or the Primal Blast) at 41, so you will only have 6 levels of having to rely upon the Tech or Magic Origin powers.
Mind/Cold might be interesting, too. Cold could fill some of the holes in the Mind set, but I don't have experience with the Cold set yet. It seems to me that some of the best powers in Cold are copies of Storm powers.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I'm currently leveling up an Illusion/Cold (48ish) and have really enjoyed the combination. Like Local suggested with mind, there are some nice hole filling powers in cold that help compliment some sets. I can see the addition of slows and the flippy floppy debuffing wonder of sleet really making it a nice set. Mind/cold will be a pretty tight set for a team build. A solo build will be a little "less tight" given that you wouldn't have a pet to shield or frostwork (three powers right there). Just please if you do build one, take the shields in a team build.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Well, the thread isn't too kind to it, but ill/ is mucho fun. To maximize the chaos, put it with /storm [which I have issues with, but it's cool.]
I personally love it when a scrapper will say, "Could you keep your crap from knocking everything back?" I'll ask which pet they want me to stop, and then they die. I say, "I'm starting them back up, k?" LOL.
Lord of Chaos FTW.
As as far as overused things, I have a fire/kin I don't use. I find her to be a boring SB vending machine and the squishiest toon I've ever played.
ETA: I've got an archery/TA defender I dig. But I'll get around to her as she's on a different server than what I call home. I wanted an archery blaster that didn't have redraw issues...it's called a defender.
I have a plant/ta at lvl 21 and although moving slower than I'd like, it's still a blast to play. Especially now that I can colour the vines and such.
Haven't seen another one around though so may be a rarity.
Justice
Everwood
Triumph
The Trust
So far the votes are.
2 Ice/TA
2 Fire/TA
2 Mind/Cold
1 Plant/TA
1 Grav/TA
Lets keep em comming. 
Put me down for mind/ta. I have one sitting at 50 and dont think I've met more than 2 others. Mind/ta is a pretty good combo too, good controls and great debuffs. I remember doing an STF and keeping GW perma slept after she came with Scirocco, best moment of that toons career
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
|
i'm with hazy. mind/ta I was also on that STF
Quote:
The trick with Fire/TA is to stay at "close range" just out side melee range but still in hot feet radius. Tricky to master but after mastering it becomes second nature. Fire cages + Entangling lets you stick the mobs where you want them. If one happens to close to melee range Ice Arrow and Char solve the problem.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I have an Illusion/TA at 50, but two aspects of Fire/TA cause me to avoid that combo. First, I consider TA to be a ranged set. Sure, you can fire off you arrows melee, but while you are shooting, you are a sitting duck. One of the main damage powers in Fire is Hot Feet, which means you either have to go into melee and stay there, or run in and out of melee. The ToHit Debuff in TA is not very strong even combined with Smoke, so you will get hit a lot when you are in melee. With no heal, that could be a problem. Second, the lit Oil Slick Arrow causes the Fire Imps to run away. Actually, it causes all controller pets to run away, but since Fire Imps only have melee attacks, it is a bigger problem for Fire/TA. On my Ill/TA, Phantasm and Phantom Army all have ranged attacks.
|
With Ice or Earth as the epic armor + Smoke and Flash Arrow you need little to no defense set bonuses. 3 AoE controls means that you always have a way to eliminate Minions and Lieutenants from the fight. The stacked holds eliminates bosses.
As far as the Imp/OSA problem... When OSA is burning the contribution from the Imps isn't really needed and when OSA goes out the Imps come back.
It's a solid soloer and a decent team build.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
New Votes?Holy Cow!This could get complicated!
Thats now 2 new Combos added to the mix on Votes, instead of 1.
2 Ice/TA
2 Fire/TA
2 Mind/Cold
2 Mind/TA
1 Plant/TA
1 Grav/TA
We are starting to have a Dead Heat on 4 builds out of 6, time to start debating guys!
Keep in mind, I promised to play this build.So make it gooooooood!
Put me down for Mind/Cold as it's a combo I've been curious to try myself.
Quote:
That puts Mind/Cold ahead by 1 Vote vs all the other builds.|
Originally Posted by ketch
Put me down for Mind/Cold as it's a combo I've been curious to try myself.
|
I would also like to add, that ill be posting how the build plays out after this, so curiosity is a good as reason as any to vote for a build.
Well, my two main trollers right now (besides my 41 mind/kin and 30 mind/storm) are a 30 plant/kin and a 22 grav/rad.
Of the four combos, I think my favorite to play right now is the plant/kin, with the grav/rad close behind. Nothing quite like Seeds > Roots > Carrion Creepers! Unless, of course, it's Radiation Infection > Crushing Field > Propel...
I just hit 47 with my Mind/TA and she is a blast to play, probably my favorite hero to play on a good team. I've never seen another Mind/TA. I see more Mind/ controllers than /TA.
Mind/TA is like a Swiss Army knife toon, you have so many tools. It is also one of the best holders around. You have 2 excellent ST holds and 2 excellent AoE holds. (Yes /rad gets one of the best AoE holds too, but I like EMP arrow a bit more than EM Pulse... though I really appreciate the huge radius on EM Pulse right at that moment in an ITF when the 3rd wave of robots wakes up around the computer in the 3rd mission.)
You can run Posi TF exemped down to 15 and, assuming you took total dom at 18 or 20, you can hold an entire 2-boss spawn at that level without any of them ever getting a shot off - because Mass Hypnosis is the ultimate setup. Honestly I think it's the 3rd most generally useful control power in the game (after Seeds of Confusion and Mass Confusion, slightly ahead of OSA, Earthquake, and Flashfire). People who say it's useless on teams, well that's because you're hanging back like a blaster, or firing it at a spawn that your team is already fighting. With Mind/ and /TA both, you should be thinking about the *next* spawn, before your team gets to it. It might be useful to fire Mass Confuse or Total Dom AFTER the spawn has unleashed their alpha on your team, but it makes so much more sense to do it before. The main thing about Mass Hypnosis is it's a no-brainer. Open with it every time, unless you know someone is about to unload another AoE. Trust me, when teammates see you mass sleeping every spawn, their tactics often change. And if not, there's no downside; you're not drawing aggro.
When the team is rolling fast, I just spam AoE debuffs and hold bosses & LTs & runners (or Levitate bosses for mitigation). But more often my strategy is to go ahead to the next spawn, and before the team gets there:
- Mass Hypnosis
- Sleep or Hold anyone MH missed, if needed
- Glue Arrow
- Ice arrow a boss and then Dominate to stack the holds, or just hold 2 LTs
- Disruption Arrow
I ran the Sister Psyche task force today on a team with a healer, 3 blasters & 3 scrappers... it went very well, and on the kill-alls I was mostly able to employ that strategy of running ahead of the rest of the team and softening up the spawns. Mind/TA has SO many tools that it's easy to adapt to different teams - whether there's a tank or not, whether there are other controllers, etc. Unlike some of the "heavier" control sets, you can work great with a tank.
Usually I save the AoE holds for oh-!%$# moments like a second spawn being aggro'd. At the start of an AV fight (or tough EB) I'll use one of them if they're both up, mostly to help stack hold mag on the AV. I also have full Lockdown sets in my holds, so I often hold bosses with just one. It's nice to hold an EB by firing just two powers. It's also nice when your team aggros the extra spawn or two, chaos ensues, and you quickly hold them all - bosses included - by firing your two AoE holds back to back.
If you do go /TA: when you are fighting an EB/AV, don't forget the lowly Flash Arrow and Entangling Arrow. Flash Arrow's -tohit is unresistable, as are the jump/fly suppression in Glue and Entangling Arrow. Between Acid, OSA, Flash, Entangle, Glue, Disruption, PGA... that's a heavy amount of debuff on an AV, and all of it (except entangling) is AoE to boot.
So obviously my vote is for Mind/TA! You can solo at any level if you need to. I think Mind/ and Plant/ win out for safe soloing because of the usefulness of the AoE sleeps, and their short recharge - you can get them to perma easily even with DOs. Mes-Lev-Dom is a decent ST attack chain, better than any other controllers except Grav (Mind's Levitate does like twice the damage of Grav's Lift, but Grav also gets Propel). Add Confuse at the low levels and you should wade through those LT+minion spawns faster than most other solo controllers, and it will only speed up after you get Acid Arrow at 20. (Though by 21, a fire controller can 3-slot Stamina and then run Hot Feet continuously, which probably makes for the fastest pre-pet controller soloing, though not exactly safe.)
I'm not sure how well Fire & TA synergize... TA is all ranged stuff, so running in with Hot Feet seems counterproductive (though once you've laid in Glue and Disruption and Acid Arrow, that Hot Feet is going to be pretty awesome)... Flashfire would be a great pairing for sure... AoE immobs work well with TA, though once you hit everything with glue arrow they tend to stay clumped anyway.
WHOAH I did not mean to write that much. 
The short version: 1 vote for Mind/TA, based on experience. It's fun. It doesn't really play like any other AT.
As per usual I'm voting for Grav/TA. All ranged, all the time and Wormhole > Crushing Field > Oil Slick > [Magic or Tech] origin power > Disruption Arrow > Acid Arrow is stupidly fun. Stuff just stays in one spot falling over and burning rapidly to death.
2 ranged holds is excellent too. Solo I'll frequently Wormhole Spawn A into Spawn B, AOE Hold the lot and then set up the burny patch of death.
Grav/TA is a slow starter though and TA in general isn't the best in fast moving large teams when you don't have time to set up your combination of powers to create the hapless enemies trapped in the Patch of Death, but then again a lot of Controllers can have this issue and if the team is fast moving there's little need to spend time doing it. But when a second spawn or ambush comes along you can typically disable and kill them without much assistance from your team.
Hmmm.
Mind/TA kinda sounds like fun.
I have a Fire/TA that I like, who stays at range at all times (he doesn't even have Hot Feet)
So I guess that could count as a vote for either. Lets go with Mind/TA.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I think a rare but interesting combo would be Grav/Cold. However my vote is for Mind/TA.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Another vote for Mind/TA here, insofar as "fun but rare" powerset combos go. One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that TA's Tier 1 (Entangling) is one of the best parts about this pairing. Illusion and Mind are the only Controller primaries that don't come with any sort of Immobilization, and Immobs are generally very effective against AVs/EBs.
The other nice thing about Entangling is that you get to set up Containment without "wasting" one of your ST Attacks/Controls. Entangling>Dominate>Lift>Mesmerize is a pretty potent ST Attack chain available as early as level 4.
Quote:
Wormhole has enough mag to teleport AVs. Never actually tried it on a GM, although I should some day just for gits and shiggles.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
wormhole has high enough mag tp to tp EBs too
|
Plus it's always fun to drop crowds of Hellions inside the Atlas tram station, or under the statue....
As far as the vote goes, one more for Mind/Cold, just because it's a combo I've been thinking about trying myself.
I've been playing a Mind/Cold the last month, and I have to see it's probably been the most fun toon I've ever played. One thing that's nice about the combo is that with Mind, you want to take most every power as it comes up, and many of Cold's best powers come later on, so you can emphasize your mind powers early and take the great cold stuff (Sleet, Heat Loss) late in the build. If you want to get the ally shields early I can see the build being very tight, especially early.
I have a love/hate relationship with TA - I love the look of the powers, and I love them strategically, but for a Corruptor or Defender, the set is just inexcusably weak. I've never played it on a Controller, where it looks much more respectable, especially since it has some good controls that get Controller durations. I would go Mind/TA if you want to be the undisputed master of control. EMP is probably the best hard control in the entire game, with its range, huge duration, big AoE and no accuracy penalty - it's limited only by recharge. Oil Slick Arrow and containment looks like pure win, adding some big AoE damage that mind really wants. Ice arrow obviously gives you yet another hold. Just don't take TA and think you will be a master debuffer like a Rad or Dark, because TA's debuffs are frankly mediocre - not terrible, but not as good as debuffs in other sets.
I think both Cold and TA would be good for Mind - neither has healing, but that's really not a necessity unless your team needs a healer - if you personally are taking any significant damage with Mind, you're probably doing something very wrong.
I'd enjoy seeing what Fire Minded actually created and how he's doing...
I have a really fun build for a Mind/FF all planned out, the only thing holding me back is the fact that damage from confused mobs takes XP away. I know the argument about the XP rate being better, but is there really a decent reason that we don't get the XP from confused mobs? It just doesn't make sense to me...
Bit late in on this thread but I think one combo I have played and have never seen anyone mention is Illusion/Force Field!
On the plus side for this combo it is a great support toon. You can help manage aggro with Phantom Army and Spectral Terror. You can ghost mission with ease because of Superior Invisibility and Person Forcefield (take that Rikti Drones!). You can buff the teams Defence to great heights with your force fields.
On the negative side it can be a bit boring to play. I took some extra attacks from the APPs just so had something to do between summonings and buffs! It also doesn't solo all that great because you are reliant on PA and beyond hasten and set bonuses you can't boost the recharge of it.
An alternative to Illusion/Forcefield could be an Illusion/Sonic. I've just retconned my Ill/FF into one (thank you character transfers!) with the attempt that the secondary will be a bit more active because of the debuffs.
I also see in the thread that Mind/Trick Arrow has been mentioned a lot. I've played this toon to 50 as well and it is great fun. Once you have Mass Hypnosis and Oil Slick Arrow you can set up a patch of death before the enemies knew what hit them!
Ive also got a Ice/Cold and Fire/Thermal which I have rolled because they are thematic but I don't see them talked about that much.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Quote:
|
Quote:
Yeah, there is. When a foe is the one doing the damage, you don't generally get XP for damage you don't do. Confusion actually gives you some BONUS XP since you get some of the credit for damage done by the confused foe as long as you, your pets or teammates.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
I have a really fun build for a Mind/FF all planned out, the only thing holding me back is the fact that damage from confused mobs takes XP away. I know the argument about the XP rate being better, but is there really a decent reason that we don't get the XP from confused mobs? It just doesn't make sense to me...
|
I have a Mind/FF at 39 that I mostly solo -- It is a fun character, not real fast but not bad to solo. He's a lot of fun on teams, also. However, I haven't noticed any kind of drop in the XP he earns due to Mass Confusion or Confuse . . . in fact, those powers often save me.
Personally, I think this concern about XP Rate should not be a concern. On teams especially, your teammates will be doing most of the damage and any missed XP (It is not really lost, only missed) is way too small to be a concern since you will kill stuff faster. If the character looks like fun, try it! My Illusion/Radiation Guide has a section on XP and Confuse powers.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
I have an Ill/Sonic in the high 30s I only keep around for RP, I've essentially given up running missions with her. Powerful, sure. Solos like a champ. Incredibly boring to play, though. Basic tactic is Superior Invisibility up to spawn, drop Confuse/Spectral Terror, drop Phantom Army, toggle Disruption Field on a decoy, go fix a cup of coffee, come back to computer, move to next spawn, begin reading book, glance up to see if the spawn's dead yet, refresh PA/Disruption Field as necessary, complete mission, rinse, lather, repeat.
|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
An alternative to Illusion/Forcefield could be an Illusion/Sonic.
|
I have a brand new ice/TA (young 20s, at present) who has "You're not going anywhere, ever!" as his battle cry.
Then he follows up on that and mobs essentially don't go anywhere, ever; even slow resistant mobs will spend their remaining seconds of life crawling and flopping after they get hit with glue arrow, shiver, and ice slick (and 2 of those are auto-hit). Having two holds early makes solo and team play easier, as well.
Ice/TA doesn't have the hard control of some combinations (ie: earth/TA), but soft controls are abundant and its a combination that offers a completely different in-game feel from most controllers.