Sniper Attacks, Why Not?

Hi,

I have played several Corrupter Combos, and read a whole lot of the Guides that are posted for them. Nearly every Guide gives the Sniper Attack a bad rap, and says it's only useful as a pulling tool. I don't find that to be the case.

Most Combos will come with a power that will allow enough time for you to get off you Snipe, and the Damage is usually huge once slotted. Any knockback power usually allows time for a snipe while the target is getting back up. Stuns, Fears, etc... also open up the opportunity. While teaming, you can find yourself without Aggro if you are good and get Snipe in.

Even Solo, I use Snipes frequently. You just can't beat the damage.

I admit, it is situational, and not for every fight. But, I find myself using it quite alot.

Timing is the key, and knowing when your other attacks will set up for it.

So, why not use them?

The reason my Fire Corruptor doesn't use her Snipe is because there's just no need; between RoF, BoF, and Fireball most things are already dead, and those that aren't are easily dispatched by a Fire Blast or two.

So the main reason I don't use the Snipe is because it just seems superfluous.

Coming at this from a Blaster viewpoint, snipe attacks are good damage the problem is the activation time. Most snipes have a 3.67s-4.67s activation time which means in the time you need to get a snipe off you could potentially fire off 2-4 other powers in the same time frame. At lower levels where you don't have a solid attack chain this is useful but at higher levels you can generally fill out your recharge to the point that you won't have time to fire off a snipe without skipping another potential attack.

That being said I use Sniper Rifle quite a bit on my AR/Dev Blaster. For maximizing damage I'd probably be better off with Ignite but I like Sniper Rifle *shrug*.

Going to echo some of what Adeon is saying here. Once you get into the mid-20's, have stamina, and can slot SO recharges, most of the ranged damage sets that I've played to level 50 (Archery, Rad Blast, Dark Blast, Electric Blast) tend to develop natural attack chains that preclude Interrupt Intensive attacks. That being said, I have taken LRM Rocket on my Ice / PSI blaster as the Ice Blast set lacks a sniping power, and there always will be cases in the game where a snipe power is useful.

Corruptors, however, tend to be a in a tight spot on powers they have available. One of the things to consider is that corruptors are the primary buff / debuff archtype for the villain side. This creates a duality trap for the archtype. Some teams depend on corruptors to act like a defender and lay on their secondary power set. Other teams expect corruptors to act like a blaster and pour on the damage. Some teams want corruptors to be a bit of both.

The damage problem is fairly complicated by the sniping sets not really being... that good on the IO front. Some of them, like Calibrated Accuracy which is the only set that offers an IO +acc bonus from memory, slam one attribute hard into ED and leave other aspects critically weak. In the case of Calibrated Accuracy, you get tons of +acc, but almost no damage. Sting of the Manticore isn't that great on the IO set bonus either, although it does offer a 7.5% recharge bonus at pump 5... which is actually useful. Really though, you can get better buffs in the ranged damage set, as well as some better procs.

On Corruptors, the problem worsens. Case in point for me are the numbers between a Stalker and a Corruptor, both of which have Moonbeam. Stalker's can get it as a Patron Power.

At level 30, my corruptor has a base Moonbeam damage of 83.
At level 50, the base damage is 115.

At level 30, my stalker would have a base moonbeam damage of 92.
At level 50, my stalker has a base moonbeam damage of 127.

Let me repeat that. My STALKER... a class designed to fight IN MELEE DISTANCE... has a more powerful SNIPING ATTACK than an archtype designed to fight from a distance. And it's not just limited to the sniping attack. Dark Blast is in the same spot.

On my corruptor, dark blast does 32.26 damage at level 30
At level 50, it would do 41.71 base

At level 30, my stalker would have a base dark blast damage of 40.35
At level 50, that base damage would be 55.61.

In addition to a higher base damage, my stalker gets build up, and land critical damage from hide. So basically, I get double damage from hide, and I can trigger an 80% boost on top of that.

Now, Corruptors do get scourge, and theoretically, once an enemy goes under 50% health a sniping attack would do double damage. However, in my own personal experience, while I can pull off moonbeam in the middle of a fight, since I can floor most to-hit values, there's the ever so slight problem that I can count on both hands the number of times moonbeam has scourged in 20 some levels. That's it. Only 8 or 9 times have I moonbeamed an enemy under 50% health and gotten a scourge effect.

Okay, there are arguments to be made here that this is really a fault of the corruptors inherent, a fault of my timing, or a fault of something else, and that it's not really a problem with the sniping set. There's also the point to be made that as a corruptor, I can debuff my enemies... which my stalker... can't.

Anyways. Since most sniping powers have pitiful Damage Per Activation, they don't proc against scourge like I think they should, and I can understand why the snipe powers are generally the first to be thrown "under the bus" to make teaming partners happy.

Hopefully this will also explain to you (and those searching the forums) on why Snipe Attacks are the first to be tossed out of many ranged damage builds.

One thing to note is that the stalker Moonbeam animation is twice as long.

But yes, snipes are generally of very limited use. I've got them on a few characters but only for a set mule.

My AR/Dark has Sniper Rifle but aside from using it to finish off some runner I am too lazy to chase, it's more useful as a container for IO set bonuses than as an attack. I have often thought about replacing it with something I'd use more. With as much defense as I have with IOs and from tohit debuffs I could easily get snipes off in combat, even against multiple enemies and yet I still don't use it.

It just isn't worth the time and the possibility someone will get lucky and interrupt me when the payoff at the end is less damage-per-activation-second than I could have achieved just cycling attacks. And that's from a primary that doesn't have great single target damage to begin with. Even just a Burst + Slug combo does roughly the same amount of damage for pretty much the same endurance cost except it's a full second faster. Add to that it has no chance of interruption and a greater chance to Scourge on the second attack in the combo. The snipe would only be worth doing if I had no other attack ready and in a fully developed build that is pretty much never the case.

The problem most players on this forum have with Sniper attacks is that they build for sustained DPS, maximizing the damage they do against AVs and in teams. In that regard a Sniper is a horrible attack, because its damage over the time taken to cast it makes it weaker than normal attacks, not stronger. On the other hand, I find Sniper attacks useful because I tend to go from spawn to spawn taking "down time", instead of just steamrollering through them. For me, I just consider the time taken to fire off the first Sniper in a volley to be part of the down time.

I do primarily solo, though. In a team, I often find a foe dying before I can get off a Sniper blast. And the Corruptor isn't really suited for Sniper attacks because, as je_saist pointed out, it is built for BOOSTING its damage with debuffs before it strikes. Debuffing the foe loses the element of surprise, and means you will be shot at while the Sniper is charging. Whereas a Stalker, with a higher damage scale to start with, will do more damage "cold", with his first shot.

I still use Sniper attacks in combat. The technique is primarily to incapacitate or otherwise render yourself protected from counterattack while charging the attack. Force Field is actually good for this on my Defender since with good slotting on my Defense I can make the odds very high that no shot will hit and interrupt me. Likewise, a Dominator or a Corruptor with a hold can lock down the foe and be assured of taking no damage during the cast time. Redside is actually a little lacking when it comes to Sniper attacks as neither Corruptors, Stalkers nor Dominators can truly use them in their best possible circumstances. Snipers are really best suited for Blasters, who can get off that full power first shot.

In short, while most people don't like Sniper attacks, they have their uses. But they are very situational, and you can almost always benefit from picking some other attack first.

I'll also add that since the Dominator revamp, their Snipes do a lot more damage (about as much as a Blaster, although on a longer recharge timer) and Snipes by their nature are extremely End efficient. If all ATs end up getting the Doms' Sniper boost, they might become more useful overall. I would also like to see the interrupt time reduced to the same two seconds as an Assassin Strike.

And I have no earthly idea what the devs were thinking with Calibrated Accuracy.

Thanks for all the responses.

I can see your point, now that I think about it, on being able to get several attacks off while Snipe is just trying to fire. I can also see that those combined attacks would indeed in most cases do more damage than the Snipe.

The Stalker Comparison;

Why on earth would a Stalker use a Snipe, other than to pull? Wouldn't your Assassins Strike be a better all around choice for an opener? And, if you did use a Snipe to Pull, doesn't that break your Hide? I would guess in that case you would Snipe your target, and then Placate him. Of course if it is a bad Pull, it still leaves you vulnerable/Visible to his buddies.

Anyways, I see what you all are saying, and understand that Snipes aren't really all that.

Thanks for the info.

Well reading this has not discouraged me to take Snipe. On an Empath/AR Defender, I feel another string(bullet) to my bow(gun) will help greatly.

My tactics lie somewhere between:

Kill 'em whilst they're not looking!

And...

Kill 'em if their close enough!

Seems to work fine?

I've been slowly but surely working on a lvl 16 Dark/Storm corrupter and I solo at least 90% of the time. Subsequently, by the time I hit my teens, I was not surviving many encounters due to my low damage, and what damage I did have was damage over time.

Basically out of desperation I picked up the snipe and my survivability has really improved. Since I can now get the first guy in the mob just about to half in one shot, Scourge kicks in SO much faster than it used to, and I can lock down and DOT the other two with a little bit of wiggle room.

I don't know if I will eventually spec out of it, or if it will stay around as part of my solo strategy, but snipes are a shortcut to Scourging if you are lacking for damage.

Plus it's cool when their head goes *pop*

You can't snipe and move or move and snipe.

The only Snipe I've used to great effect is moonbeam. The other dark powers let me use it in melee without interruption.

Snipes are among powers that you take because they are fun, not because they are good powers. I like them but if I take one I do so with full knowledge that it's not an effective power by the numbers. It's just fun to open with a snipe though. They usually fall by the wayside in my builds when power picks get tight, but it's always fun when I manage to squeeze one in. If you want it, take it. Don't worry about what the guides say.

If you like your snipe, then go for it. I find that using it solo is much easier than on teams, where timing is thrown way off by other people. However, teaming is a big part of this game.

I do have it on my current Non'IO'd alternate build for my Kinetics/Archery Defender. Using Stunning Shot on a Lieutenant makes following up with a snipe sadistic fun.

I always take the snipes. Usually helps fill out a ST Chain, opener agains single large targets, pulling, runners ect. I think its almost mandatory on an AR toon as there are only 3 ST attack in the set.
Also should note that Sniper IO sets have GREAT bonuses and are very cheap, especially given the usual dislike from most players.
I can definately see snipes being skipped on sets that already have a solid 3 attack ST chain, but if you dont have 3 ranged ST attacks, you may wanna consider the snipe.