friendliness vs play2win

No idea. But my non-sequitur klaxon just got a lot easier to find.

And a very nice cleavage it is too. That Mr. No Pants is a lucky guy. (I hope I didn't just make myself look stupid by pairing you with the wrong guy )

I will agree that this community is one of the more friendly ones that I've lurked, um...interacted with.

I want one too.

Heck, I'd settle for a regular power ranger morpher.

Actually I don't really see a problem with this quote. I see no real insult here. I don't belive that I would be offended by someone offering this opinion to me. It really depends on what "tone" you read it in. Tone can be misread easily.

I'd look at it as a sort of RP'ing in a way. Competitive vs cooperative and all that. People discover 'secrets' and don't want to disclose them in competitive environments.

I'm not sure there is a way to nerf personalities.

Actually, he says in his articles that playing to win and being a jerk are two separate things. You can still play to win and be friendly and sportsman like. You just don't hinder yourself with arbitrary rules because other people could use the factors of those rules to beat you. One's attitude as far as how they interact with you is a different issue all together.

Seeeeee, smart people can be funny too!

This is something like what happened to me when I was still playing Marvel vs. Capcom to pretty hardcore with a friend of mine. We were both very much experts at the game, and we played REALLY fast and REALLY hard just to get a shot at that KO. When playing against other people who weren't such experts at the game, though, I realised I had to slow down my game A LOT, or there was simply no fun to be had. I wouldn't quite let people shoot me with ad-hoc supers, of course, but I wouldn't necessarily come down on every missed step and put constant pressure on them.

In fact, playing with someone who knew how to play, but not really at all what to do with the skills ended up as something of a tutorial where I'd constantly narrate what he was doing wrong and what he was doing right and occasionally laying some mild smackdown just to punctuate a point. He did end up getting a lot better in time, which let me speed up my game and actually try a fair bit, which was actually a lot of fun. To me, that shows that, even in a competitive game, cultivating a new player so that he stays and gets better is a wiser decision than simply crushing him and turning him off the game entirely. After all, at least for me, it's not whether you win or lose that matters, it's all about playing a good match.

On the other hand, I played with a nephew of mine who liked to just botton-spam a lot, which caused my attack attack attack to send me face-first into plenty of kicks and punches. Him I couldn't explain away, as he would not listen, so I had to get my game together, walk all over him by playing a little more defensively and exploiting the vulnerability after bigger attacks and, yes, eventually crush before it got through to him that his cheap approach was not, in fact, an "I Win" button. He got a lot better when he started fighting smart, though, so it was a net positive effect after all.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I think you may be on to something here, that a lot of competitive players don't realize. Not everyone learns the same way. Just because YOU learned to be a better player by getting pwnd repeatedly, doesn't mean that's the best way for someone else to learn.

I refuse to believe that none of these people actually want the "noobs" to get better. Some don't, because they enjoy lording their superiority over people, but those aren't competitive players, they're just bullies. Just looking at the number of PvP guides in these forums proves that there are competitive players who want people to actually compete against. Some of them just go about it the wrong way.

Take into the account the fact that a lot of people are simply inarticulate, and spewing tired catchphrases like "survival of the fittest" is a lot easier than actually saying what you mean, it looks like everyone is just a jerk. Eventually it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of jerkitude.

Well, I don't think competitive people want to keep weaker people down as a general rule. True, I've heard about all the monopoly stories from SWG where high-level crafters would sell low-level goods at prices that low-level crafters couldn't afford to sell at, thus preventing them from working up their skills, but that's more ruthless money-mongering than actual competitive gameplay for the sake of competitive sport.

I do believe, however, that a lot of competitive people get too preoccupied with competing and forget that, at the end of the day, we're all here to have fun, and that helping a weak player get stronger actually makes things more fun as you get someone that's actually interesting to compete against. There are different levels of "in it to win it" even within the circle of competitive games, because one has to ask if it's merely A victory that matters, or if it's only a GOOD victory that counts.

Back to Marvel vs. Capcom, I give no quarter and ask for none when I see my opponent is pushing back hard, but at the same time I don't consider it a good game if I won because he got hit with a glitch, suffered faulty hardware or just fumbled a billion times. In fact, if I spot an opponent continuously trying to pull off, say, a super and just fumbling his controls, I'll eventually just back off and let him pull it off anyway. I won't get hit with it deliberately, but I'll just let the other guy untangle his fingers just the same. It's good sport AND it's more fun when your opponent is on top of his game

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

That last line made me LOL in real life.



To the OP: Fighting Games and RPGs are two completely different atmospheres. There is a reason many folks like one and hate the other.

Also had to pull this quote out, as it's something some pvpers in this game don't seem to get.

Getting beat repeatedly does indeed teach. However, for some getting beat repeatedly is a TURN OFF.

One of the things this game DOESN'T do well (and didn't pre-i13) is teach folks about pvp.

I've always been of the mind there should have been some sort of tutorial for pvp in game somewhere.

OMG!!! Neg rep for you you play2win dude!!! Yuck nasty piece of work i tell ya!!!!

Who you calling a nasty piece of work? I'll let you know im a good piece of work! Something this good doesnt come naturally you know!

You fool!!!! You fell for the trap!! You are now officially busted!!!!! Duddeeeeeee the shame . . . . the shame . . . . . . .

It's also one way to give yourself a aneurysm if you keep at it.

for emphasis


Depends on how you present your problem.

"X is cheap what do i do."

or

"What do i do against X, can i counter it?"

Guess which country won the civil war?

Not to mention that people were very helpful when I started playing CoV back in '06...

...before I started playing CoH in '07

Yes.

Actually my first reaction when reading through this thread was to say something very similar to this.

Some one else brought up poker, so I will continue with that.

I started a weekly poker game with my co-workers a couple months ago. People show up and buy in for 10$ and we usually get a pot around 100$ or more going by the end of the night after re-buys and what not. Now we pretty much all play to win. We all want the cash and we all do our best to take each others chips. None of us cheat, (to the best of my knowledge,) but we do try and take the pot by the end of the night. It can get fairly competitive especially with those of us who have been playing a while and we really like to just go for it.

However even with money at stake, the game never gets mean or dis-respectful. Sure their are some friendly insults or jabs tossed across the table at times, and even the best of us get frustrated when we lose a bad hand, but after 3 months of doing this weekly with a couple new people coming in from time to time, no one has ever been nearly as harsh on each other as say in a fairly mild game of online Halo. At the end of the game, we all still hang out or talk or shake hands or what ever, and though we go for the money, it's never gotten ugly, out of hand, no one has ever left the table out of anger etc.

So the point being, is that you can play competitively, and play to win and still be a nice person, be a good sport, be a good loser and a good winner. However that all takes a modicum of class and civility, and frankly a lot of people, when given the shield of anonymity provided by the internet and online games in general, tend to feel they can and should say or do what ever they want. This leads to people being complete jerks and really very foul and vulgar when I think a large number of them would never act that way if they were face to face with you.

This reminds me of online games I've played with a group of friends that used to hang out a lot when we were kids. There were four of us who, before the advent of decent internet, all went to internet cafes to play LAN games, as all the city's cafes were linked together, and there were usually plenty of people playing. We were pretty much always the four, and we got pretty good at the time, with competition being FIERCE, to the point where one player dominating incited the others to want to get up from their chairs and go punch him at his PC. We never did, of course, as who got that upper hand always changed, and we all had fun by the end. Yeah, we all wanted to win, but by and large, we all wanted to just laugh our ***** off into our chairs and have a decent game.

I still have stupid stories from back in the day, from games like Wages of Sin and Half-Life, like jumping off a roof and into an open sewer, getting shot IN MID AIR by one guy's rocket redirected to another guy's laser sight, redirecting a "ball of death" nuke with essentially a melee shove gun (I still died because I redirected it into the ground at my feet), dropping on someone's head while shotgunning in mid air, getting "squished" by a very thin metal door for having the rotten luck to run under it JUST as the other guy hit the button, shooting a Gauss Gun into the ground to prevent it shocking me and killing two people through the floor I didn't even know were there, headshotting a person who was completely hidden while aiming for someone else and honest-to-god jumping over six volleys of rockets coming from BEHIND, inciting a friend of mine to first want to punch his team-mate, then want to punch ME. And it was all fun and games at the end of the day as we walked home together, laughing about the game like a bunch of idiots. And it was fun.

Then Counter-Strike came along, and everything changed. I guess a new wave of gamers hit the market, but that game simply allowed for a lot of cheap shots and really penalised the losers, so everything was Why... So... Serious? I we couldn't goof off, because that got us killed and turned into spectators for 10 minute out of a 12 minute round, and you couldn't rely on your enemies to be cool about it, since all they cared about was cheap-shotting you in such a way that you couldn't respond, racking up kills. That's also the first time I met honest-to-god cheating in multiplayer, and the whole thing was just not fun in the slightest.

Games can be competitive, that's all well and good. But games need to be FUN, and that fun CANNOT be had on the backs of other players, but sooner or later, YOU are one of the players who are chewed up and spat out so that someone else can have their fun. And I CAN blame the games, at times, for allowing such cheap tactics that... Well, what do you expect. But I mostly blame the players, because the desire to win is so fierce it makes games into a profession, when they really ought to be recreation. I play games to ESCAPE from the stress and hardship of work, not to get more of it. I don't mind a decent fight, but I don't want to elbow my way past someone else's ego every time I log on.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.