I just don't have it in me :(
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2009-12-29 20:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Hear, hear.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Nothing wrong with staying on the right side of the moral divide
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I cannot bring myself to play a villain, period. Don't like to adopt that mindset.
GR may see me finally get to play a MasterMind, which looks like fun.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Most of my villains are simple mercenaries since that's what most of the arcs are geared toward. I have a couple that are trying to do the right thing and are mostly in the Rogue Isles to strike at Arachnos and Recluse's sorry excuse for a government. For those I follow contacts like Ideon listed and I'll add...|
Originally Posted by Ideon
I'm sure other people can make suggestions for later contacts.
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Cap au Diable
Ashley McKnight - origin of powers and entrance into the Midnighters
Marshal Brass - uncover corruption, especially if you fail the final "stop the broadcast" mission on purpose
Mercedes Sheldon - recover a dangerous artifact from the Carnival
Vanguard - 'nuff said
Sharkhead
Captain Petrovich - save the Iron Widow
Maros - Stop the awakening of the Leviathan
Doc Buzzsaw - who can't like her? She's always so upbeat! LOL
If you want to be the mastermind and control your own fate, or you want to be the anti-hero working behind the scenes, there is really no better way than to make your own endings to some of the stories using AE. I've done it multiple times to good effect.
For example - don't like how you feel after giving the victims to the Vahz? Create a quick mission in AE where, after receiving your money of course, you penetrate the Vahz lair and rescue the hostages. Heck, use the Dr. Vahz lair map and put the good doctor there so you can defeat him too... the whole operation was just your way of finding his lair. Or create a mission to go rescue the daughter of the traitor the mobster took into his care just so he could ruin her life. Or, not only did you not stop the broadcast, you help the reporter by destroying the Arachnos base jamming the broadcast, etc... the possibilities are endless.
It's all in how you approach the attitude and character (twisting what you did to another purpose in your head - you didn't really kill the victim you faked it). That plus a little imagination in AE goes a long way.
I've never really understood this line of reasoning. It's like saying you cannot play Germany or Japan in Axis and Allies to me.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
My villains' loyalty (in addition to themselves and their groups) are to the citizens of the Rogue Isles, not to Arachnos. But they go through the motions and do the 'All hail Arachnos...yaddayaddayadda' stuff just to keep up appearances.
There are several contacts I simply will not do, because they are just to scummy. However, for most missions, I can RP a somewhat heroic storyline and ending. I can even do that with the Deliver Citizens to the Vhaz mission. In that case, my villains, upon rescuing the citizens, coach them on how to react, and then are assured that our contacts in Paragon will come to their aid (also like to train the Longbow guys on the Vahz as well.)
Offer the Soul of Akarist? That is an easy one. After kidnapping him, I then replace Akarist with an inflatable Akarist...filled with Folgers Crystals (The Thornies can't tell the difference).
Bank robberies? Just like pro wrestling, those are staged. 
Kidnappings? If the target is someone nice, then we are actually rescuing them, since they don't realize the true nature of whoever they are hanging with. If the target is a scumbag, well, whatever. /em shrug.
There are plenty of ways in the Rogue Isles to fight crime for fun and profit. Also, the overall theme for them is that they are making their way the only way they know how. That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
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Well, as someone with a pretty balanced ratio of villains to heroes, I can both relate and not relate to this.|
Originally Posted by ebon3
I didn't like my choice but it seemed prudent given the circumstances, and honestly I sorta feel like a ****** for doing it
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The reason I tend to, on the two or three servers I've restricted myself to, to balance my heroes and villains is because it just appeals to my weird sense of order. Sometimes I imagine or explicitly write each hero as the nemesis of the other villain but mostly I'm just balancing things in an idealized platonic sense--evil must balance the good.
Villain origin stories seem to suggest themselves to me more easily than hero origin stories but, what I've found is, I tend to write characters that are easy to distance myself from. Also CoX, being rated T, doesn't really luridly rub your nose in the horrifying aspects of evil. You're not forced to play or really think about being a real terrorist, dictator or criminal sociopath. It's not like reading the news. So this allows me to daydream without getting skwiky about it.
But in games where I am confronted with it, Bioshock for example, I'll chose to be the good guy every single time.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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In a game like that, I'd find it hard to play America or Britain. My nihilistic view on life just makes it easier to play the villain. Villainy is fun because you get to really ham it up.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I've never really understood this line of reasoning. It's like saying you cannot play Germany or Japan in Axis and Allies to me.
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Hell, actors say it's always fun to play the evil genius, and y'know what? They're right.
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I think that largely depends on what your definition of "reality" is. Angst-ridden "fallen-from-grace" villains and the "I really mean well" types are all the rage in literature and in comics, but they've never struck me as truly villainous or authentic--they don't seem to exist "in reality".|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Of course, in reality, while they are reacting negatively to the outside influences, they are still being driven by those outside influences. They're letting themselves be controlled by something other than themselves. There are very, very few villains that are acting out of Free Will.
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In my opinion, you have to read nonfiction to find true villains. For the most part, they had pampered childhoods with loving familes. They weren't abused, warped, or sent down a sad, inevitable path of self-destruction. The only thing about them that is truly tragic is that they were born with shriveled souls--the gifts that life gave to them should have gone to others who needed it more.
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| Villainy is sort of like driving the wrong way down the highway for no better reason than because you were told not to. They're the ultimate victims of reverse psychology. And, eventually, their petulant attitude will catch up with them |
The course of their lives isn't set by outside events. They enjoy a freedom that doesn't even exist in nature--a lion kills animals because he is bound to it by his nature. If he doesn't kill, he will starve and die. Real, true-to-life villains are more like trophy hunters. They kill because they *ENJOY* killing--it's fun. And they are often patted on the back by their friends for their skill in the bargain.
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| Heroes, by contrast, look like they're bending to the will of society in general. However, the bounds of society exist for a reason. If you sit down analyze and consider your actions for their overall benefit, most of the time, you will find that the manner in which accepted society wants you to behave is the most efficient and effective way to behave. |
Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika
I LOVE Redside! I think my level 50's Heroes to villains Ratio is 5-1 in favor of the villains 
My overall characters ratio is probably 10-1, with my 3 char pages on Virtue being almost completely red >.>
Phippsy is one of the better villain contacts out there when it comes to being petty and cruel, Peter Temari's arc is sorta nasty too - especially if you see the results later in game when doing Von Grun's arcs.
I've seen the "inability" to play villains before though, i know several people who feel horrible if they were to run these arcs.
I understand the part that you're talking about in Dragon Age, when I passed through with my villainous Blood Mage the only reason the person survived is because I was getting something out of it (permanent power!) and even then my Mage IC would be planning for them to suffer an accident later because obviously in a few years from now they'd form a threat to his power.
My villains tend to be either selfish or mercenary (with a couple of misguided fools among them ), it's all about THEM and in some cases the people THEY care about - the rest be damned.
Like Underworld? Then take a look at! http://moonid.net/account/recruitmen.../monstersgame/
And don't forget to join the fight for our City! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ard,134.0.html
Since someone mentioned villainous MA arcs... this one should be to the liking of anyone who likes Phipps' arcs and such stuff: The Burning of Hearts Arc ID#2260
(And nope, not a creation of mine! Credit goes entirely to someone else!)
Like Underworld? Then take a look at! http://moonid.net/account/recruitmen.../monstersgame/
And don't forget to join the fight for our City! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ard,134.0.html
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Hah, Angelo Vendetti - i actually forgot to mention that one in my post. Stone Cold indeed |
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
If you want to be the mastermind and control your own fate, or you want to be the anti-hero working behind the scenes, there is really no better way than to make your own endings to some of the stories using AE. I've done it multiple times to good effect.
For example - don't like how you feel after giving the victims to the Vahz? Create a quick mission in AE where, after receiving your money of course, you penetrate the Vahz lair and rescue the hostages. Heck, use the Dr. Vahz lair map and put the good doctor there so you can defeat him too... the whole operation was just your way of finding his lair. Or create a mission to go rescue the daughter of the traitor the mobster took into his care just so he could ruin her life. Or, not only did you not stop the broadcast, you help the reporter by destroying the Arachnos base jamming the broadcast, etc... the possibilities are endless. It's all in how you approach the attitude and character (twisting what you did to another purpose in your head - you didn't really kill the victim you faked it). That plus a little imagination in AE goes a long way. |
I like that approach btw, a while ago i was actually running on an RPing PuG with my vigilante and we did the arc to deliver the victims to the Vahzilok.
As soon as the mission was complete my character excused himself from the group, so he could follow the tracking beacon he had secretly attached to one of the victims and rescue them - bringing down a Vahzilok hideout in the process
Never actually made it into an AE arc, but that's what happened in my mind!
Like Underworld? Then take a look at! http://moonid.net/account/recruitmen.../monstersgame/
And don't forget to join the fight for our City! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ard,134.0.html
I find I have the same problem. I really enjoy the Villan ATs, especially Doms despite their poor reputation to some close-minded people. I also enjoy the look of Redside, its kind of dark and not so neat and clean. I really struggle with the idea of playing a villan though. When I have, I end up trying to play the "anti-villan" or more of mercenary trying to make it in the oppressive Rogue Isles yet not be truly evil.
I guess its good that GR is coming out
I'm going to enjoy Villains a lot more when i can take my MMs into Dark Astoria.
Oh what joy.
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Especially the Demon summoning MMs.
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Originally Posted by Contrarian
I'm going to enjoy Villains a lot more when i can take my MMs into Dark Astoria.
Oh what joy. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I most likely will get stoned (rocks thrown at me not the other kind) for this. . .But if you like the villain ATs and power sets you could always level via AE missions. NO NOT POWERLEVELING. Just choose missions with a "heroic" theme and level normally.
This way you don't have to worry about being all mean and nasty.
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Quite so! It's always more fun to play the villain if only because of all the scenery chewing you can do. You can actually say things like, "Their robot planes were no match for our music!" and still have people take you seriously!
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Villainy is fun because you get to really ham it up.
Hell, actors say it's always fun to play the evil genius, and y'know what? They're right. |
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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And then there are the staggeringly depressing results of the Standford Prison Experiment which pretty much showed that anyone, anyone, can easily be put into a situation where they wouldn't think twice about being habitually cruel to people.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
In my opinion, you have to read nonfiction to find true villains.
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"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
I only have more villains than heroes because I like all of the villain ATs versus the three hero ATs I like (Blasters, Scrappers, Controllers). That will most likely change with Going Rogue though (Yay for AT crossing).
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This is the kind of dispassionate gameplay I *WISH* I could enjoy.
I too wanted very badly to enjoy the Villain side of my favorite game, but no matter how many Vills I start, I just can't seem to level one past about 18 or so.
I simply can't "lose myself" in pretending to be a Villain, as I can when pretending to be a Hero.
I have similar problems in numerous games (including Civ 4) that can at times "require" you to be a bit evil-***** to succeed.
You're not alone, OP, there are plenty of us out there, who really want to embrace and experience Red-side content, but find that for some reason, it just rubs them the wrong way. *shrug*
I would LOVE to find out if the Devs ever considered that this might be a popularity-limiting factor when they were working on CoV.
I have to imagine that someone on the team, at some point, said the same thing we're seeing repeated post-OP here.
Wondered if it ever had them truly worried?
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Can't tell if that's a compliment. |
Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
This is the kind of dispassionate gameplay I *WISH* I could enjoy.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
To be honest, villainside just feels like a slightly different version of heroside to me. It all kinda blends together.
I can play villains just fine. I just can't play the sort of villain that the CoV story arcs seem designed for.
My villains are typically motivated by a desire for power. If you get in the way of one of my villains, he'll remove you as efficiently as possible. If you stay out of his way, he'll ignore you (and might even help you, if doing so would increase his power).
The CoV missions I've encountered seem to be designed for amoral mercenaries or sociopaths, and totally at odds with the motivation of my villains -- you don't gain power by being somebody's lackey. The only CoV character I've gotten beyond level 20 did so through a mix of newspaper missions and MA arcs.
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The "bounds of society" can become chains and shackles quite easily. In the society of the Rogue Isles, everyone is expected to obey Lord Recluse completely, and it would probably be "most efficient and effective" for them to do so, since it would mean fewer problems for them. That doesn't make it the right thing to do, though.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Heroes, by contrast, look like they're bending to the will of society in general. However, the bounds of society exist for a reason. If you sit down analyze and consider your actions for their overall benefit, most of the time, you will find that the manner in which accepted society wants you to behave is the most efficient and effective way to behave. However, since loads of other people are taking the same action merely because "that's what you're suppposed to do" it tends to bury the people that are making the actions out of Will rather than expectation.
It's one of those cases where it is rather hard to tell whether someone is acting out of Will or not because so often the choice of Will mirrors the choice of Expectation (someone acted out of Will in the past to lead society that way, however). |
It might be just because I'm reading a novel with a "comfort and control through conformity" set of bad guys, but the quoted passage seems to me like a major brain-washing attempt. I'm sorry if that offends the poster, but that's how it seems to me. Of course, this post is all my opinion, but it seems like efficiency is more a basis for evil than good.
Case in point: If a person with power has a goal and seeks to achieve it most efficiently, they must silence the people who would prevent this goal as quickly as possible.
Whether you view the word "silence" as "kill" or something more benevolent like "bribe" is immaterial; it's still the wrong thing to do. This is probably why no one wants a society run by computers. Cold efficiency would mean simply existing as opposed to really living and making a difference (even though most people do that anyway, but don't get me started with that).
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I hear ya there, I have yet to get a hero past lvl 20 without deleting it. (MUAHAHAHAHA oh the many heroes I've killed with my delete-O-ray.)|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
I only have more villains than heroes because I like all of the villain ATs versus the three hero ATs I like (Blasters, Scrappers, Controllers). That will most likely change with Going Rogue though (Yay for AT crossing).
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But the villian AT's are al great, though I'm not that partial to doms, I have one of each kind of MM, 8 or 9 brutes across the servers I play on, a sick amount of corrs, and 4 stalkers. Redside ftw!
I think the problem is that most people don't want to have to work their character, and either want it done for them or nothing to be done at all. On both sides all it takes is the smallest bit of imagination to make anything fit your concept.
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Most of the redside missions don't bother me. They tend to be petty things like robbing banks or beating up some guys nobody likes. Being a villain is pretty weak in the isles most of the time.|
Originally Posted by ebon3
I didn't like my choice but it seemed prudent given the circumstances, and honestly I sorta feel like a ****** for doing it
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There are a couple arcs that bug me though. One is the one where you trick and then destroy a hero girl who eventually becomes devoured because of you and you pretty much kill her to put her out of her misery. The other is that guy in GV who's a jerkhole just because he can be. He makes you beat up Freaks and has you destroy buildings and kidnap that teacher for no reason whatsoever. I don't like doing either of those.
So I definitely know what you mean about feeling bad. I don't mind beating up rival factions, but killing innocent people for no reason is sort of over the line for me!
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Do what I do: Don't read the arcs. I know, I know...if you don't read them, then how can you enjoy them. Well, some of them...I'd rarther not enjoy ever again. I have one contact I plan to avoid at all costs. *shudders*
I do reccomend Seer Marino's arc (I think this is the one), dealing with GW and Wretch. That one is very well written. I read/played through it in one sitting, and it actually made me cry a little bit. I just got into it. It seems like the higher you get in lvl, the 'worse' the contacts get in terms of squicky (to me) content that I refuse to touch.
"Certain it is and sure: love burns, ale burns, fire burns, politics burns, but cold were life without them." - Romulan proverb
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