What Are Heroes Running FROM?

Sadly Mac I said something similar way back on page 7 and most likely get ignored like my post did...

Are you lot still going on about this? Wow, just...... Wow!
I mean, how hard is it for some to understand that some people don't like PvP? I don't, so I would run if I was approached by the opposition, when in BB getting some Shivens.

Maybe the Devs should implement non-PvP versions of all the PvP zones, choosable upon zoning into them. That way, PvEers could get tgeir Shivans without having to PvP, and PvPers can be assured that whoever they meet in a PvP zone is up for a fight. They'd have to either nerf the 'PvE Shivans' or add challenge to getying them to balance out the lesser risk of course, but both sides would benefit, wouln't they?

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

It is ridiculously easy to get a shivan, there doesnt need to be a pve Bloody Bay at all, ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilii it's all a matter of perspective in an open area without clear scoreboards, as opposed to arena matches

Rep/Badges/PVP IOs/Zone Control
There is always a scoreboard.

Adding a stick to the PVP Zones to get people to fight won't work if the carrot of Shivans or nukes doesn't. If people run as soon as they're attacked when in the zone for those things they just won't come in at all if they HAVE to PVP to get their shiny.

I think another thing that might make PVP a bit more attractive would be to do away with the rez penalty. Let people pop up in the base at full health.

I am still thinking the idea that there's a chance of getting a shiny if you lose a PVP match might be a worthwhile addition too, but I'm not sure how you'd implement it in a way that wouldn't allow cheating ...

I think Mac had an excellent response to the dude up there who thinks running equals fear. That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen posted.

It's that idea, that got us I13 pvp.

EDIT: Also known as "stand and fite, this is fite klub, nub. no running or evading!"

Maybe the shivans could be dynamically nerfed/powered up depending on however many other players were in the zone. I'm 'lucky' enough to play during euro timezones, so invariably, I don't see anyone when I'm getting my Shivans.

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

Essentially, you can split the game into 3 tiers:

PvPers: If you think that having the chance to get ganked (as in jumped by a group of stealthing enemies) while travelling from base to mission is fun and exciting, you may be a PvPer. If the thought of researching a build that can handle that situation or joining an SG expressly so you can always have your own gang of stealthed ambushers sounds fun, then you may be a PvPer. Go ahead and hit the PvP zones, getting repeatedly rolled will just be a learning experience that you will relish taking the effort to rise above.

PvEers: If having a bunch of stealthed guys with minmaxed builds jump you while you are on your way to a mission sounds annoying and dumb, then you may be a PvEer. If there is no way no how you are going to finance an extra build or learn a new playstyle expressly so that you can PvP, then you may be a PvEer. PvP zones are not barred to you, but I cannot in good faith recommend that you enter them, because you will be rolled and the Devs and GMs will not help beyond giving you warning text before you click to enter.

Borderline: If you do not have a strong feeling one way or the other about financing a PvP build, learning a new playstyle, and joining a PvP SG, they you may be borderline.

HERE is where the problem lies.

When a Borderline player enters the zone, there is no way to tell her from a true PvPer. They are going to most likely have a negative experience. With no PvP build or skills, they are going to get assassin struck, look around, see a blast coming toward their face, try to run, find out they are rooted, supressed and slowed, click a break free and DIE. Then they will go to the hospital, come back out, rinse and repeat until they decide 'well this sucks' and leave the zone.

One less potential PvPer.

This is what kills PvP in most games that have an option to avoid PvP.

PvP in a game where there are large safe zones must be a different animal than how it is in 'all PvP' games or games with dedicated PvP servers. The code changes to PvP are an attempt to help PvP by increasing the number of Borderline people that will have a positive experience ("I lost, but I felt like I had a chance, and I am willing to make a few adjustments and try it again") instead of a negative one ("This is stupid, you can't find anyone to fight, and when you do you just get one shotted with no chance to fight back").

It has created a vicious cycle: less people PvP, so therefore less people PvP.

What can the players do about this?

It comes back to a something that zone PvPers have a BIG problem with (and I don't mean this in a derogatory way): etiquette. Although attacking someone by surprise in a PvP zone while they are not paying attention is not griefing by the Dev's definition, it is still HURTING ZONE PVP.

Simply: If the zone PvPers took it upon themselves to send a tell (from behind cover and at an extreme distance) before attacking, there would eventually be more PvPers. This would degrade the PvP experience for a PvPer dramatically, since warning your foe is absolutely counter intuitive, but maybe -just maybe- over time it would lead to MORE PvP, due to more Borderline players having a positive experience.

Sure, you would occaisionally send a tell to a real PvPer, who would use the info against you. But that would just make the experience more challenging, which is what you want, right?

Right?

'Borderline' players go into a PvP zone expecting what they think PvP is, which is different from what it is.

I know: I am/was one.

I went into a PvP zone first with a high level Tanker, and my experience was more or less positive, but very different from what I expected.

What I expected:

I enter the zone, get assassin struck from behind, turn and punch the assailant, jockey back and forth for a bit landing blows and popping inspirations, then win or lose. "GG" Maybe even throw in some during-battle comic book banter: "What supposed to hurt little ole me?" I even had macros set up for dialogue.

What happened: I enter the zone, hook immediately up with a team of heroes intending to look for villains to fight. As we are traveling along, we start to simply vanish, one by one. Someone is using 'teleport other'! I yell at everyone to get to cover and try to break line of sight with whoever. Suddenly I appear on top of a distant building, immobilized in a patch of trip mines, Burn, and fire imps, while being blasted and Held (this was before suppression or Break Frees). I drop.

Now, I found that experience exciting and interesting, but is that typical?

Many people I know would have found that dismaying or unfair, and not something they would seek out. I know; I talked to them about it. However, what I had was a vastly more positive experience than many board posters report.

Borderline players expect to get attacked. They do not expect (or perhaps I should say they do not ENJOY) getting attacked by opponents that have a skill and build gap so great that they feel that they do not have a chance.

Borderline players ARE NOT PVPers. They have a chance to become one, though, but they have to be given a reason.

To them, the question is not "What are you running from?" but "Why should I NOT run?"

Ifyou are attacked by a foe and you do not for whatever reason think you can defeat them, then running seems like the only choice. Or just sitting there and dying. Often, the two choices (or all 3) are the same: click to go to the hospital.