Nosferatu Overpowered Just a Tad?
By
Aikidragon,
Posted on: 2009-12-09 19:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Remember folks, the game is intentionally designed so that EBs are not solo-able. Sure, many of power gamers find EBs just a minor speed bump while soloing, while casual players do indeed find most EBs un-soloable.
But when we find an EB which really is un-soloable for some builds... then we can't say it's a bug or a mistake or overpowered. That's the way it's supposed to be.
For Nossy's stats go here and search the page for Nosferatu.
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I thought that the purpose of EBs was to provide essentially a soloable version of an AV. It's the AVs that were not intended to be soloable.
He called out my lvl 42 WS and was not very impressed.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Not really. Just because most EBs can be soloed, and all AVs can be downgraded, doesn't mean the EB rank was specifically designed for to be soloed. It's meant to be more challenging than a boss, less challenging than an AV. Whether or not it can be soloed is dependent on the powers tactics and skills of the player at the keyboard, not a design goal of the mob.
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Originally Posted by Willowpaw
I thought that the purpose of EBs was to provide essentially a soloable version of an AV. It's the AVs that were not intended to be soloable.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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In practice, this is what it often ends up doing. By design, however, it was a response to a specific player complaint - AVs are not interesting. All you need to defeat one is enough manpower to essentially power through his mountain of hit points. That, and AVs needed a big team - four or more, usually, which was a real punishment for people in duets or trios. Essentially, EBs were designed to allow for small teams to have a "small team AV."|
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
I thought that the purpose of EBs was to provide essentially a soloable version of an AV. It's the AVs that were not intended to be soloable.
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We've been told repeatedly that, while soloing EBs has never been a problem, we are never guaranteed to be able to solo them. Which is kind of a bummer, really, but that's probably the biggest reason I don't play support characters.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's what I usually do. I beat Nosferatu once, with my Ill/Rad Controller, but he's a bit much for most of my characters, especially in confined quarters. It's not a climactic part of the story, so I have no hesitation in dropping that particular mission.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
I take it I should just forget about Nosferatu and drop the mission?
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Nossie shows up in an ambush in one of the Ouroboros TFs. I remember trying out that TF on the test server, and my stalker faceplanting before I even realized that an enemy had rushed up behind me.
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I've never had that happen. He hits more often than others do when I chow down on purple and his attacks, when he does hit, are extremely strong. When I've lost to him, it's usually been when he's either 1-shot or 2-shot me.| I've eaten enough purples to be at 60% def(all) or higher and still had that expletive-deleted damage aura of his hit me, every tick. On that same character, I was at 75% res(all), effectively, from bodyguard mode, and had him two-shot me with back-to-back melee attacks. And yes, this was with him as a +0 elite boss, in my case in the "Rise of the Council" arc in Ouroboros. |
But for the most part, my usual EB-downing tactics work on him. I tend to play with ATs that are EB-downing friendly though.
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Not only is that an ambush, it's a player-targeted ambush. And not only is that a player-targeted ambush, it's something I've never seen anywhere else in City of Heroes: a player-targeted ambush that stays targeted on the player who clicked the glowie even if they leave the map and return. He stays aggroed on you, and will run the length of the map to meet you at the door if need be, until he has killed you at least once.|
Originally Posted by Mirai
Nossie shows up in an ambush in one of the Ouroboros TFs. I remember trying out that TF on the test server, and my stalker faceplanting before I even realized that an enemy had rushed up behind me.
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This is not, to put it mildly, one of my favorite missions.
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Nosferatu is the only EB I have not managed to solo to date on my claws / regen scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Nosferatu overpowered just a tad?
I have a level 41 Force Field Defender that's currently soloing the Maxwell Christopher mission arc. I am at the "Capture Nosferatu & his assistants" mission. Except he two shotted me. Okay, dumb luck right? Rezzed, rested up, buffed up, hit Power Build Up, ate a medium purple and a small red. Except, two shots later, and I'm taking a dirt nap. Again. I take it I should just forget about Nosferatu and drop the mission? Yeah, yeah, I know, "Get a team!" Tried. Repeatedly. |
I can usually last quite a while against him, but he always manages to heal himself.
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I saw Nosferatu cry for his momma - right after I dropped a Shivan and hit it with Fortitude, Adrenalin Boost and Regeneration Aura - while running all three Leadership toggles.|
Originally Posted by Iannis
Last time I came against him in one of those ouro 1-man TFs I just Shivan'd him. Take that, you crazy old nazi. He still roughed the shivan up if I remember.
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I really quite enjoyed seeing him getting beaten like a rented mule.
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He can and does miss. I've soloed him with an /SR Scrapper, had to use the Wedding band or a few oranges to mitigate that damage aura but his two-shotting attacks do miss.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
I've eaten enough purples to be at 60% def(all) or higher and still had that expletive-deleted damage aura of his hit me, every tick. On that same character, I was at 75% res(all), effectively, from bodyguard mode, and had him two-shot me with back-to-back melee attacks. And yes, this was with him as a +0 elite boss, in my case in the "Rise of the Council" arc in Ouroboros.
I did finally solo him on the fourth try, but it took a Shivan and all three Warburg nukes. And it was still a close fight. Yes, in my opinion (and I submitted this as a bug report when Ouroboros was in open beta), Nosferatu is more than "a tad" over-powered. If I were doing it over again, I would skip the medium purple inspirations I was using and replace them with enough orange inspirations to hit the damage resistance cap; it's apparently flatly impossible for him to miss. |
Really, any squishy who lets him into melee is asking to die a quick and painful death. He is far less nasty at range, just remember the breakfrees. (Does he still have Dominate? I remember getting him down to 1/4 health once with a Blaster and running out of breakfrees.)
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yep. One word: Reicheman.
(Yes, I know I spelled it incorrectly. Don't care.) |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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This. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Remember folks, the game is intentionally designed so that EBs are not solo-able. Sure, many of power gamers find EBs just a minor speed bump while soloing, while casual players do indeed find most EBs un-soloable.
But when we find an EB which really is un-soloable for some builds... then we can't say it's a bug or a mistake or overpowered. That's the way it's supposed to be. For Nossy's stats go here and search the page for Nosferatu. |
The game should not be dumbed down to the extent that even one of the weaker defender variants can easily solo any EB.
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Agreed. This is why I have a problem with the prevalence of AVs in newer content. People who can't solo EBs don't really have an option other than to wait for a mission drop, they can't pick and choose content to avoid them.
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
This.
The game should not be dumbed down to the extent that even one of the weaker defender variants can easily solo any EB. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I would add people should try setting to the -1 level difficulty on EBs they are stuggling with.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Agreed. This is why I have a problem with the prevalence of AVs in newer content. People who can't solo EBs don't really have an option other than to wait for a mission drop, they can't pick and choose content to avoid them.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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There is also the option to drop Shivans and/or HVAS on them, as well. Defenders in particular will turn those pets into killing machines.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Agreed. This is why I have a problem with the prevalence of AVs in newer content. People who can't solo EBs don't really have an option other than to wait for a mission drop, they can't pick and choose content to avoid them.
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Shivans require entering a PvP zone, and HVAS require participating in a mothership raid. While they are viable tactics for people who don't mind getting them, they shouldn't be required.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
There is also the option to drop Shivans and/or HVAS on them, as well. Defenders in particular will turn those pets into killing machines.
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I got really, really tired of having to run to Bloody Bay every other day when my Corruptor got into the 40s, because of all the EBs I couldn't solo and couldn't avoid. Of course this was before IOs and before mission drops, so now I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but still...
One thing I have learned from playing literally hundreds of AE arcs is that you can tell a good and compelling story without having an AV at the end. Using an AV is just an easy way to make the final mission seem climactic. Sometimes it suits the story, sometimes it's just cheap and lazy. It's especially cheap when the AV is an established character who will just be rescued by Blue Steel five minutes later, so your defeating them accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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While I prefer to avoid AVs when possible, there's a certain feeling of satisfying climax with an elite boss at the end. Of the two arcs I have, one ends in a custom (and weak-ish) elite boss, and the other ends in an AV because I had to use a signature villain. I generally don't enjoy "boss fights" every time you turn around, but there is a time and a place for a decent EB or AV.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
One thing I have learned from playing literally hundreds of AE arcs is that you can tell a good and compelling story without having an AV at the end. Using an AV is just an easy way to make the final mission seem climactic. Sometimes it suits the story, sometimes it's just cheap and lazy. It's especially cheap when the AV is an established character who will just be rescued by Blue Steel five minutes later, so your defeating them accomplishes absolutely nothing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Nosferatu is notoriously tough, as AV or Elite.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Nosferatu overpowered just a tad?
I take it I should just forget about Nosferatu and drop the mission? Yeah, yeah, I know, "Get a team!" Tried. Repeatedly. |
If he won't go down solo on lowest setting, then yep, drop him or find people to help ratpack him.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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Technically, you can earn the HVAS just by killing Rikti, no raid required. Granted, doing a raid is the fastest way to earn one.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Shivans require entering a PvP zone, and HVAS require participating in a mothership raid. While they are viable tactics for people who don't mind getting them, they shouldn't be required.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I got really, really tired of having to run to Bloody Bay every other day when my Corruptor got into the 40s, because of all the EBs I couldn't solo and couldn't avoid. Of course this was before IOs and before mission drops, so now I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but still...
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Could they take out Noferatu using just inspirations? That I'm not sure about, but I'm somewhat surprised that you needed a pet for every AV post 40, villain side. (To be fair, I haven't seen all the 40+ villain content.)
[edit: Btw, I mentioned Shivans/HVAS not as the end all solution, just another solution to add to the pool.]
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AR/Dark. Before IOs, I simply did not have the single-target damage required to take most of them down before I ran out of breakfrees and blues. And if they popped Overload I was done.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
May I inquire what kind of Corruptor you have? I don't have many villains (I do have a 50 Dark Blast/Rad Corruptor, though), but I've played a fair share of support characters, so far I think they could all solo most EBs with a tray of insps, but without Shivans/HVAS. (My Sonic/Elec would no doubt be the weakest at it.) My Dark Miasma / Rad Defender was able to take out Anti-Matter, despite his def debuffs and stuns (Cosmic Burst) using just inspirations.
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| Could they take out Noferatu using just inspirations? That I'm not sure about, but I'm somewhat surprised that you needed a pet for every AV post 40, villain side. (To be fair, I haven't seen all the 40+ villain content.) |
Now of course, some characters I have can take out these guys relatively easily. Which is why my problem isn't with the existence of these AVs, it's with the fact that they're spread out throughout redside content. This is exacerbated by the fact that in some cases the AV is there for no real story reason other than to make you fight an AV.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I just recently took on Nosferatu solo and won but I'm a 50 INV/SS tank with health, stamina, tough and weave decently slotted out so go figure. I did have to eat some inspirations to take him but not many. But again I was playing a tank so that may be the difference. As for tactics for other's I'm not sure this is my first 50 inspite of playing for 5 years (bad for alt-itis)
I thought I should necro this a bit to avoid starting yet another thread for just a few sentences.
I took on Nosferatu just now, and did so with a Fire/Fire Blaster, level 42 as of the battle, slotted with Common level 40 Inventions and no Sets at all. I went in with massive apprehension, so I stocked up well. In the end, I beat him without too much trouble. That's Nosferatu from The Eternal Nemesis, by the way. Here's what I used:
Three medium purples, three small pruples, I think four or five reds, a single medium blue (or maybe two, I forgot), and somewhere between four and six greens. I was lucky enough to spawn-wipe a happless group of Nemesis soldiers who wandered into my collateral damage, which dropped at least three inspirations on me, but since I ended the fight with five inspirations still unused, that wasn't a factor.
Purples I used in pairs of three, opening with two medium ones and a small one, and following that with two small ones and a medium one. Health I used only a few times, largely when his evil attacks got through, and tended to use them in pairs. I think I used them three times. Reds I wanted to use all at once, but since some dropped a tad later, I eded up using them in two waves, one a pair of reds and one three reds.
Nosferatu is the most dangerous in melee, but since I couldn't keep him at range (low ceiling), I ended up having to use cheap tricks to scare him off. Tricks like Burn and Rain of Fire, which IS cheap, but whatever works. His dark slaps are by far the biggest threat, but most of his missed due to my overdosing on Soilent Purple. His supposedly auto-hit aura wasn't. Either he had it off most of the time (which I don't believe he did), or it missed me a lot of the time, as I wasn't ticking much at all when I was around him, which was most of the time anyway. It WOULD tick me for 90 points, but I wasn't sure if that was his aura or his Midnight Grasp. Suffice it to say that either the thing had a tick time of 10 minutes, or something was up.
I ended the fight just as all of my purples timed out and he was heading for me low on health, when one final Blaze put him down on his face as he ran. It was scary, but a lot of it has to do with me playing like an idiot, because I was too afraid of him to focus on what I was doing. With better planning and not accidentally getting jumped by 12 other enemies, I'm sure this success could be repeatable.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Been awhile since I last tried Nosferatu. I just finished a mission arc that put me up against Nosferatu again. Things have changed drastically. Not only did I win, I never even used my Dull Pain or Instant Healing. (Claws/Regen scrapper).
I've never even had a Shivan or HVAS 8(
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I dunno, sounds more like a smart player using his head rather than anything cheap.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Nosferatu is the most dangerous in melee, but since I couldn't keep him at range (low ceiling), I ended up having to use cheap tricks to scare him off. Tricks like Burn and Rain of Fire, which IS cheap, but whatever works.
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edit: I just found out that the forum software doesn't allow you to make an entire post in caps.