Low Lvl I/O's - yeah, huh?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-12-08 21:27 in The Market and Inventions
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It's been heading that way sharply ever since merits were introduced. And every time they increase leveling speed it just makes the matter worse. When you combine the current fast leveling speed with those sets dropping at max level, you wind up with a situation where no one is at the low to mid levels long enough to get enough merits to keep supply up. Some things, like the +stealth IOs pre-25, are basically extinct. |
Originally Posted by Hellpop
What's the deal with the lack of mid level I/O's? And I'm talking blueside. I can barely squeak together a set of anything decent these days at lvl 35. And it's not because I am underbidding, looking at the sell dates on recipes and enhancements, only one comes up for sale per week. Postitron's, Numinia's, etc., - there is just nothing for sale until you get to 50. Maybe it's the deluge after AE, but there is a severe lack of them right now.
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It has been this way for a while, and we get at least a few threads per week on it. Try searching next time.
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Originally Posted by Hellpop
Is everyone hunting purps on their 50's after lvl'ing up on AE?
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You'll actually see this fairly regularly in the various Archetype boards. People are specifically citing their builds as vs. AV, exclusively teaming, or for farming. The trivial nature of the content of this game has created such extremes. I've even seen the less mature players suggest that any build that can't farm (per their defintion) is therefore gimp.
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Originally Posted by Hellpop
I have really enjoyed playing my alt scrapper, but i/o's in the mid 30's would make the grind a lot easier to deal with. The only way I got a LotG +recharge is when I lucked out on a reward merit roll because there are none for sale at that level.
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Originally Posted by Hellpop
Hopefully this will change with the holiday event merit rolls that are sure to hit the market, but what does this say about the players in general? Is everyone simply playing their 50's these days?
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Pretty much agree with everything brophog said.
Merits have indeed messed up what is available and when. Not to mention that pre-merits, people would literally be able to run several short TF's and were generating dozens of rare recipes a DAY. Now players are much more limited and consequently the number of recipes has fallen off.
Also to add on to other reasons there are fewer recipes, a lot of players want lower level recipes for PvP or for when they exemplar. They want those set bonuses around for certain lower levels. So even when players are playing lower level toons, if they happen to get those great recipes, they are keeping them for themselves. Even if they can't use it on the toon that gets the recipe, they likely have an alt that can so they are just trading in-house. At least, I know that's what I do. 
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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There are a decent quantity of pool As and pool Bs available at all levels (although sometimes you need to search over a 5 level or so range) but most people opt to hoard their merits until they hit level 50 meaning that the majority of pool C/Ds are only available at the maximum level for that recipe.|
Originally Posted by Hellpop
What's the deal with the lack of mid level I/O's? And I'm talking blueside. I can barely squeak together a set of anything decent these days at lvl 35. And it's not because I am underbidding, looking at the sell dates on recipes and enhancements, only one comes up for sale per week. Postitron's, Numinia's, etc., - there is just nothing for sale until you get to 50. Maybe it's the deluge after AE, but there is a severe lack of them right now.
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| Is everyone hunting purps on their 50's after lvl'ing up on AE? I have really enjoyed playing my alt scrapper, but i/o's in the mid 30's would make the grind a lot easier to deal with. The only way I got a LotG +recharge is when I lucked out on a reward merit roll because there are none for sale at that level. |
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| Hopefully this will change with the holiday event merit rolls that are sure to hit the market, but what does this say about the players in general? Is everyone simply playing their 50's these days? |
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Most of the supply for the Market is generated by farmers. | Is everyone simply playing their 50's these days? |
Most of the farmers are running level 50 content, and near enough to all of them are using level 50 characters. So your Pool C's are max level, and most of your Pool A's and B's are level 50 [or 49] as well.
It's always been skewed, but now it's kind of spectacular.
The fact that max level sells for two to ten times (max level -3) just makes the problem feed on itself. If you're generating sub-max stuff [I have a couple characters doing this] then you're in it for the art.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Really ? What beats it ? | Pretty much no one levels in the AE anymore, I'm sure some people do but with the farm nerfs it's no longer the best method of leveling. |
I just run against standard enemies. Its much nicer than running around kings row and steel canyon. Works pretty well for me. Whats slowing me up more than anything else is trying to slot when I hit 22. Redside you can have your bid up for weeks and not get filled. Blueside is getting to be every bit as bad.
I can add to the Original Posters observation with my own. Last week I started a new Fire/Shield scrapper. The plan was to pass some inf to the new toon and place bids for the recipes as soon as slots in the auction house opened up. Well long story short I had my bids in at level 11 she is 24 now and my bids which were all over the top of the last 5 have only filled about a third, and in some cases I drained the entire supply.
There also seems to be a shortage of low and mid level salvage on the market as well.
Oh, didn't mean to leave this out, I wasn't trying to put together high end sets, things like smashing haymaker and pulverizing fisticuffs at 25 the doubles are better than SOs and you dont have to go crazy swapping them
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From what I hear the RWZ repeatable missions are now considered the best way of leveling. No clue if that's the case but I can tell you that observationally I rarely see people forming AE teams.
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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Really ? What beats it ?
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There's not a decent quantity of rare pool As available at all levels. In the highly desired mid-level sets, these As turn up more rarely than Cs. (See Kinetic Combat)|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
There are a decent quantity of pool As and pool Bs available at all levels
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Since no one with any sense spends merits on random rolls before level 50 this is unlikely to happen. |
But your statement is also wrong in other ways. I spend all my merits earned at the points of 30, 35, and 40 now. Why? To occasionally provide rare recipes that I want while I'm leveling. Because I don't power level to 50 and then play. Because I like my toons to be awesome in the 30s. Because I don't play my 50s that much, so IOing them out at that point seems a waste. To sometimes earn tremendous amounts of cash on a lower level toon (see a 30's earning power versus a 50's) if I'm bored with marketeering. And even to provide goods for the market, for others' fun. I've answered three specific requests in this forum, one of which was for a lower-than-max snipe pool C.* I actually get pretty disappointed with the new-ish weighting of the task for rolls**, since even if it's worth less sometimes, I like the Cs from accurate tohit debuff and such, rather than the common armors and attack Cs. Earning cash is easy. Getting some recipes is trickier.
*This person then said, oh I meant redside, after I'd posted for 30 million in WW. It still sold for the asking price when I left it up for a couple weeks.
**The two Numina's uniques and Obliterations in my last 10 rolls, notwithstanding.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
From what I hear the RWZ repeatable missions are now considered the best way of leveling. No clue if that's the case but I can tell you that observationally I rarely see people forming AE teams.
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I could see that. I was running the beat Loc'Danan/rescue mender Lazarus mission set +0x8 as a farm for my brute. It let me level up and and have a shot at purples. It didn't seem any faster than running the AE against developer enemies.
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If you get tier 1 or tier 2 common salvage for less than 30-40 thousand a piece you are getting an incredible steal. Merits and Tickets are tied for best rewards anyone under 47 can get. By my estimates tickets can consistently be converted into inf at 5k inf or better/ ticket. So for you to buy your salvage, someone either had to convert tickets and put the salvage up on the market, or was running content that didnt give tickets. Either way for salvage to come down the suppliers need to be forced or willing to take a hit so you can have cheap salvage.|
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Oh, didn't mean to leave this out, I wasn't trying to put together high end sets, things like smashing haymaker and pulverizing fisticuffs at 25 the doubles are better than SOs and you dont have to go crazy swapping them |
The same holds true for mid level recipes.
You toss in that someone has to tie up a market slot to make this all happen why should they ?
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Yeah, this just kills a lot of incentive for folks to even list low - mid level recipes. I can put up two Touch of Death Dmg/End recipes (which are in high demand) and I'll sell the level 40 at a ridiculous price almost immediately but the level 38 will sit for weeks (even at 10-20% of the price of the level 40) without takers, even though the difference between them is .5% enhancement value.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
The fact that max level sells for two to ten times (max level -3) just makes the problem feed on itself. If you're generating sub-max stuff [I have a couple characters doing this] then you're in it for the art.
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Relevant Rikti XP mods|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
From what I hear the RWZ repeatable missions are now considered the best way of leveling. No clue if that's the case but I can tell you that observationally I rarely see people forming AE teams.
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Communications Officer: 1.2 (of lieutenant)
Guardian: 1.2
Infantry: 1.2
Quantum Infantry: 1.2
Headman (31-40): 1.2
Chief Mentalist: 1.6
I wouldn't say its necessarily the best, I don't have my finger on that particular pulse, but they certainly are juicy. I like running them on my 50s for inf and drops.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Gets even worse with 'unpopular' sets. Why list something for vendor+10% tying up a slot for a few days or longer, when that slot could be selling your common salvage drops for more?|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Yeah, this just kills a lot of incentive for folks to even list low - mid level recipes. I can put up two Touch of Death Dmg/End recipes (which are in high demand) and I'll sell the level 40 at a ridiculous price almost immediately but the level 38 will sit for weeks (even at 10-20% of the price of the level 40) without takers, even though the difference between them is .5% enhancement value.
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Most of my characters have at least one (well two as each is paired) common IO memorised they can craft for profit competeing for that slot as well.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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And Vanguard merits too. Not quite a farm, but I like completing the RWZ arcs as well to add regular merits to the mix.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Relevant Rikti XP mods
Communications Officer: 1.2 (of lieutenant) Guardian: 1.2 Infantry: 1.2 Quantum Infantry: 1.2 Headman (31-40): 1.2 Chief Mentalist: 1.6 I wouldn't say its necessarily the best, I don't have my finger on that particular pulse, but they certainly are juicy. I like running them on my 50s for inf and drops. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Heh, I actually have a Freebird +Stealth at level 24 or 25 red-side. Been holding it for a while.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Some things, like the +stealth IOs pre-25, are basically extinct.
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Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Something like that yes. But also levelling goes very fast these days, and you also spend a lot time fighting outside of your actual level range with super-SK-ing. All in all it seems to mean a drastic reduction of the time spent at a given low level fighting as that level in content that gives normal drops. You can also see that effect at salvage:|
Originally Posted by Hellpop
Is everyone hunting purps on their 50's after lvl'ing up on AE?
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Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
There also seems to be a shortage of low and mid level salvage on the market as well.
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
But your statement is also wrong in other ways. I spend all my merits earned at the points of 30, 35, and 40 now. Why? To occasionally provide rare recipes that I want while I'm leveling. Because I don't power level to 50 and then play. Because I like my toons to be awesome in the 30s. Because I don't play my 50s that much, so IOing them out at that point seems a waste. To sometimes earn tremendous amounts of cash on a lower level toon (see a 30's earning power versus a 50's) if I'm bored with marketeering. And even to provide goods for the market, for others' fun. I've answered three specific requests in this forum, one of which was for a lower-than-max snipe pool C.* I actually get pretty disappointed with the new-ish weighting of the task for rolls**, since even if it's worth less sometimes, I like the Cs from accurate tohit debuff and such, rather than the common armors and attack Cs. Earning cash is easy. Getting some recipes is trickier.
*This person then said, oh I meant redside, after I'd posted for 30 million in WW. It still sold for the asking price when I left it up for a couple weeks. **The two Numina's uniques and Obliterations in my last 10 rolls, notwithstanding. |
Also, since levelling is so fast, few people will want to buy e.g. said level 38 Touch of Death now when they can make the needed two levels to slot the 40 one in an hour or two. Buy sub-maximum just for that big of play? Doesnt make much sense anymore. And since your auction slots fill up fast too I guess a lot of people dont bother putting up the few lame-level recipes they still do get:
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Gets even worse with 'unpopular' sets. Why list something for vendor+10% tying up a slot for a few days or longer, when that slot could be selling your common salvage drops for more?
Most of my characters have at least one (well two as each is paired) common IO memorised they can craft for profit competeing for that slot as well. |
Nobody has the stuff for sale, because they're levelling too fast. So nobody bothers trying to buy, because there is nothing for sale. So nobody bothers listing the stuff they do have, because nobody will buy. Vicious cycle, that results in my level 35 having decent stuff like Crushing Impacts sitting in my market slots for days, vying for space with bids on Thunderstrikes that just won't fill.
Nobody rolls at low levels because so many people IO out at 50. So there's nothing to buy. So people pay through the nose for the convenience of buying at max level even on recipes like Numina's and BotZ where lower-level is better. So nobody rolls because their stuff won't sell for as much. Another vicious cycle. Not to mention all the people who save up tickets to just buy what they want instead of buying on the market, because max level is so expensive and anything lower is unavailable.
I do supply some mid-level stuff. I start to IO at 32, so I roll merits and tickets at 35 in the hopes of getting something I can actually use. That's where the unsold Crushing Impacts come from.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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I hear ya, my guess is that ppl don't start farming for recipes until 50?
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Originally Posted by Hellpop
What's the deal with the lack of mid level I/O's? And I'm talking blueside. I can barely squeak together a set of anything decent these days at lvl 35. And it's not because I am underbidding, looking at the sell dates on recipes and enhancements, only one comes up for sale per week. Postitron's, Numinia's, etc., - there is just nothing for sale until you get to 50. Maybe it's the deluge after AE, but there is a severe lack of them right now.
Is everyone hunting purps on their 50's after lvl'ing up on AE? I have really enjoyed playing my alt scrapper, but i/o's in the mid 30's would make the grind a lot easier to deal with. The only way I got a LotG +recharge is when I lucked out on a reward merit roll because there are none for sale at that level. Hopefully this will change with the holiday event merit rolls that are sure to hit the market, but what does this say about the players in general? Is everyone simply playing their 50's these days? |
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Total and utter nonsense.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Since no one with any sense spends merits on random rolls before level 50 this is unlikely to happen.
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We often see posts from people looking for recipes in the mid 30's. I do the same. I WANT recipes in the 30's. Therefore, when all my characters hit level 37, they use all their merits on random rolls. The merits accumulated on my 50's are used to buy specific recipes only, either at minimum level for procs or at level 35-37.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Or doing it to get the recipes at the level you want, since they're rarely on the market. The potential return for selling the recipes is irrelevant to me.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
The fact that max level sells for two to ten times (max level -3) just makes the problem feed on itself. If you're generating sub-max stuff [I have a couple characters doing this] then you're in it for the art.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
BlueRaptor-- my beef with the comment was that creating mid-level recipes wasn't a sensible course of action. While playing CoX as much as I do is not sensible in real-world terms, within the confines of the game (and my playstyle) my actions make sense.
And you make a compelling case for sensible activity with a different mindset.
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If you only play one character at a time. (I'm sure some of the time I spend on crafting/selling/shopping is inefficient in xp/min terms, but a huge portion of my own entertainment is tinkering with builds.)|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
and running to Wenworth's to put low level stuff up for sale would be wasted time, as it's mostly for a gain that wont be worth anything for your character anymore by the time it sells, as you're gonna be a much higher level then already and can make more cash by beating up stuff in the time it would have taken to put those items up.
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| Also, since levelling is so fast, few people will want to buy e.g. said level 38 Touch of Death now when they can make the needed two levels to slot the 40 one in an hour or two. Buy sub-maximum just for that big of play? Doesnt make much sense anymore. |
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And since your auction slots fill up fast too I guess a lot of people dont bother putting up the few lame-level recipes they still do get: So yes, for those that want to fly to 50 fast, low level drops are few and there's very little incentive to auction them. |
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Or positively stated, simply have the devs turn on the level slider for random rolls.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
The best you could hope for would be that the merit system were changed not to pump everything out at max level.
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I have been doing my part with my parked lvl 33 electric scrapper vainly trying for a couple Obliteration: Damage pieces. Run a couple Freaklympics, roll a few times...everything but (good stuff, too, but sadly Posi won't let us slot influence).
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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Fair enough and I'm glad that works for you, I also apologize for the lack of sense comment, that was unnecessarily aggressive of me.|
Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
But your statement is also wrong in other ways. I spend all my merits earned at the points of 30, 35, and 40 now. Why? To occasionally provide rare recipes that I want while I'm leveling. Because I don't power level to 50 and then play. Because I like my toons to be awesome in the 30s. Because I don't play my 50s that much, so IOing them out at that point seems a waste. To sometimes earn tremendous amounts of cash on a lower level toon (see a 30's earning power versus a 50's) if I'm bored with marketeering. And even to provide goods for the market, for others' fun. I've answered three specific requests in this forum, one of which was for a lower-than-max snipe pool C.* I actually get pretty disappointed with the new-ish weighting of the task for rolls**, since even if it's worth less sometimes, I like the Cs from accurate tohit debuff and such, rather than the common armors and attack Cs. Earning cash is easy. Getting some recipes is trickier.
*This person then said, oh I meant redside, after I'd posted for 30 million in WW. It still sold for the asking price when I left it up for a couple weeks. **The two Numina's uniques and Obliterations in my last 10 rolls, notwithstanding. |
At the same time I think you're going to find that you're largely in a minority. My experience is that most players either don't IO their toons at all (or at least don't go beyond generics) or wait until mid-40s to start IO'ing (at least beyond generics and maybe the odd frankenslot for leveling). Given that there isn't consistent demand for most recipes at anything below the top level for the set (the exceptions are the globals and some procs). From the point of view of making inf waiting until level 50 is a much safer gamble than doing it at mid levels.
Additionally level 50 recipes sell a lot quicker than lower level ones. Waiting weeks for a 30 million sale is for me a waste of slots. If you rotate through your alts for marketing I guess this isn't really an issue but I tend to only do market work on the character I'm playing (I'll occasionally log in my main specifically for marketeering but my other characters only do it if I'm playing them).
EDIT: Also to whomever placed the lowball bid for my level 10 Eradication: Chance for Energy damage, the asking price is under 20million, up your bid, you know you want it
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I'd agree with you on that, though the evidence is anecdotal from board commentary and checking peoples' bonuses on teams. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
At the same time I think you're going to find that you're largely in a minority. My experience is that most players either don't IO their toons at all (or at least don't go beyond generics) or wait until mid-40s to start IO'ing (at least beyond generics and maybe the odd frankenslot for leveling).
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| Additionally level 50 recipes sell a lot quicker than lower level ones. Waiting weeks for a 30 million sale is for me a waste of slots. If you rotate through your alts for marketing I guess this isn't really an issue but I tend to only do market work on the character I'm playing (I'll occasionally log in my main specifically for marketeering but my other characters only do it if I'm playing them). |
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EDIT: Also to whomever placed the lowball bid for my level 10 Eradication: Chance for Energy damage*, the asking price is under 20million, up your bid, you know you want it
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*These remind me, I need to check on Oblit proc bids...
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I'm trying to slot FOUR sets of Obliteration, and the ones that are hardest to come by in the 30-40 range right now seem to be Damage and Accuracy/Recharge. I got multiple bids out at different levels, just waiting for something to fill.
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
*These remind me, I need to check on Oblit proc bids...
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my lil RWZ Challenge vid
What's the deal with the lack of mid level I/O's? And I'm talking blueside. I can barely squeak together a set of anything decent these days at lvl 35. And it's not because I am underbidding, looking at the sell dates on recipes and enhancements, only one comes up for sale per week. Postitron's, Numinia's, etc., - there is just nothing for sale until you get to 50. Maybe it's the deluge after AE, but there is a severe lack of them right now.
Is everyone hunting purps on their 50's after lvl'ing up on AE? I have really enjoyed playing my alt scrapper, but i/o's in the mid 30's would make the grind a lot easier to deal with. The only way I got a LotG +recharge is when I lucked out on a reward merit roll because there are none for sale at that level.
Hopefully this will change with the holiday event merit rolls that are sure to hit the market, but what does this say about the players in general? Is everyone simply playing their 50's these days?